Illini Basketball

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#426      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
Keisersose said:
All I can figure is the entire fan base and everything associated with Illini basketball wants a championship so badly it permeates to the players on the court.
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This is true. Even the TV announcers on the Houston game made a reference or two to this. Everyone on and off the court is feeling it to a large or small degree. And the media has picked up on it.

Motivation and a strong desire to succeed is a good thing. Pressure is not. You cannot play this game tensed up or hesitant. That is a sure recipe for defeat.

Honestly, the Illini should bring in one of those Motivation/Attitudes seminar guys to address the team. These mentors know how to frame the balance between the passion to succeed and how to stop behaviors that keep you from your goals.

Playing to win vs. Trying not to fail. Night and day wide difference in approach and results.

This is one thing the organization can fix right away.
 
#427      

alaskaillini

A
alaskaillini
Roundball Sage said:
This is true. Even the TV announcers on the Houston game made a reference or two to this. Everyone on and off the court is feeling it to a large or small degree. And the media has picked up on it.

Motivation and a strong desire to succeed is a good thing. Pressure is not. You cannot play this game tensed up or hesitant. That is a sure recipe for defeat.

Honestly, the Illini should bring in one of those Motivation/Attitudes seminar guys to address the team. These mentors know how to frame the balance between the passion to succeed and how to stop behaviors that keep you from your goals.

Playing to win vs. Trying not to fail. Night and day wide difference in approach and results.

This is one thing the organization can fix right away.
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If you get to the tourney every year for your career at IL, some of that pressure goes away. We just need to be a perennial tourney team.
 
#429      

812Jamie

8
812Jamie
I have read lots about the B1G style and how it doesn't translate to the tourney. I don't at all disagree.

Early in the BU tenure, he wanted to play fast (shoot in under 7 seconds) and press & trap (see forcing 25 TOs vs Michigan State) but moved away from it because it was deemed to difficult to win like that in the league. But isn't that really about the athletes? Didn't Illinois just not have enough top tier guys back then but maybe they do now? I'd like to see that again...
 
#430      

fuggles

F
fuggles
greyghost70 said:
That is BS. The only reason anyone was clamoring for Goode, Melendez and Podz to get minutes is because our offense had become stagnant and we needed a shot in the arm. You can't keep playing good teams 4 on 5 or at some times 3 on 5 and expect to win.
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So all the teams we played have 5 shooters? lol
 
#431      

Dee_4_Three_83

Dee_4_Three_83
Mahomet, IL
Dee_4_Three_83
812Jamie said:
I have read lots about the B1G style and how it doesn't translate to the tourney. I don't at all disagree.

Early in the BU tenure, he wanted to play fast (shoot in under 7 seconds) and press & trap (see forcing 25 TOs vs Michigan State) but moved away from it because it was deemed to difficult to win like that in the league. But isn't that really about the athletes? Didn't Illinois just not have enough top tier guys back then but maybe they do now? I'd like to see that again...
Click to expand...
Having Kofi has been very good for us in so many ways, but I often wonder if having a player like him has lead us away from this style in order to save his strength for banging on the inside. I would think that if we continue to recruit long, fast players in the next couple classes, we could see a return to this style.
 
#432      

ptgrd23

ptgrd23
ptgrd23
Bring back the flying Illini. Lets press and run! Assuming Kofi does not come back I want to see some athleticism and push the ball up the court.

We have speed (6)
Andre, Pods, RJ, Jayden, Sencire, Coleman

We have strength
somebody has teach them how to throw an outlet pass
Ty, Dainja, BBV, Luke (4)

We have potential
Omar looks like he could run the floor. Love to see him do it.
 
#433      

FromTheLogo

F
FromTheLogo
Dee_4_Three_83 said:
Having Kofi has been very good for us in so many ways, but I often wonder if having a player like him has lead us away from this style in order to save his strength for banging on the inside. I would think that if we continue to recruit long, fast players in the next couple classes, we could see a return to this style.
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I don't see why we can't run even with Kofi, especially off of defensive stops. Drew Timme isn't a speed demon, but Gonzaga plays FAST.

Underwood said we were going to play faster this year than last. That went out the window when DMW, CoHawk, and even Trent became the primary ball handlers. With the injuries and the hot start to the season shooting 3's, our scheme changed to a half-court feed-the-beast or shoot-the-3 team. IMO, playing fast is all about guards and scheme.
 
#434      

Illini84

I
Illini84
alaskaillini said:
If you get to the tourney every year for your career at IL, some of that pressure goes away. We just need to be a perennial tourney team.
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I don’t disagree one bit but the exception to this rule seems to be Gonzaga. Watching him postgame, Mark Few looks like it is starting to get to him. I’m really starting to buy in to matchups and the luck factor.
 
#435      

alexander58

A
alexander58
Illini84 said:
I don’t disagree one bit but the exception to this rule seems to be Gonzaga. Watching him postgame, Mark Few looks like it is starting to get to him. I’m really starting to buy in to matchups and the luck factor.
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When you recruit at the level Gonzaga does, the expectations are bound to be higher.
 
#436      

WyattEarp

WyattEarp
WyattEarp
812Jamie said:
I have read lots about the B1G style and how it doesn't translate to the tourney. I don't at all disagree.

Early in the BU tenure, he wanted to play fast (shoot in under 7 seconds) and press & trap (see forcing 25 TOs vs Michigan State) but moved away from it because it was deemed to difficult to win like that in the league. But isn't that really about the athletes? Didn't Illinois just not have enough top tier guys back then but maybe they do now? I'd like to see that again...
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It sure sounds promising in theory at least.
I can see Coleman Hawkins…for example…thriving in a such a scheme. And his length would be amazing in that capacity…IF the staff could get him to consistently play defense with his feet and stay out of foul trouble. That might be a tall order. I hope I’m wrong.

I hate to be a buzzkill…because I would definitely love it too…
It’s just that we obviously have a whole lot of unknown variables going in.

We are going to be getting younger again and we have no idea how many deep we’re going to go next season. It’d be nice to comfortably go AT LEAST 8-deep if we’re gonna consistently go full Press Virginia again.
 
#437      

jrichisamazing

J
jrichisamazing
alexander58 said:
When you recruit at the level Gonzaga does, the expectations are bound to be higher.
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Gonzaga is also unique because winning a conference championship is not as prestigious for them. It's really NCAA Champion or bust.

We get more satisfaction out of a B1G Championship. Those hard to come by and very coveted.
 
#438      

PIT_ILL

P
PIT_ILL
812Jamie said:
I have read lots about the B1G style and how it doesn't translate to the tourney. I don't at all disagree.

Early in the BU tenure, he wanted to play fast (shoot in under 7 seconds) and press & trap (see forcing 25 TOs vs Michigan State) but moved away from it because it was deemed to difficult to win like that in the league. But isn't that really about the athletes? Didn't Illinois just not have enough top tier guys back then but maybe they do now? I'd like to see that again...
Click to expand...
I don't think you can be successful in the B1G like that and BU learned it. There is so much familiarity and advanced scouting of each other. UI still has a pretty decent tempo. I think if BU could dictate completely he would have a quick offense and a slow defense. Those are the games UI looks good.

Side note. I personally think BU and staff are very good at adapting on the large scale (season to season) but not great within a game. Maybe that is just the last 2 tournaments putting a microscope on things but I don't think they adjusted well in either the Loyola or Houston game. The Loyola game has been beaten to death but I was at the Houston game and I was literally yelling to run. The defense played well in both the Chattanooga and Houston games. The offense wasn't there because they couldn't hit a shot, which in turn hurts Kofi's game because the defense collapses on him more. In that situation I wish they would have just run off every missed UH shot. Houston is a good defensive team with length. With the shooting night UI was having they weren't winning that game in the halfcourt.
 
#439      

jrichisamazing

J
jrichisamazing
PIT_ILL said:
I don't think you can be successful in the B1G like that and BU learned it. There is so much familiarity and advanced scouting of each other. UI still has a pretty decent tempo. I think if BU could dictate completely he would have a quick offense and a slow defense. Those are the games UI looks good.
Click to expand...

Once BU went to the traditional packline defense, we really started getting a vintage Izzo/MSU feel IMO. Offensively, push the ball and try to get something easy but do it under control. If it's not there, run a disciplined set that gets a good look. But no matter what, always have a tough defense and control the boards.

As BU keeps sculpting this team I think we will look more and more like the dominant MSU teams that everybody was afraid of because they had no weaknesses.
 
#440      

ptgrd23

ptgrd23
ptgrd23
Kids want to play fast / NBA style

The combination of our lack of athleticism / size and having an all american center led Brad to decide our best chance to win was slow it down and pound it inside.

Ayo and Adam were the best athletes on last years starting five
Kofi is super strong and agile but not a rim runner shot blocker
Andre was out most the season and at 50% when he came back
Jacob DaMonte and Alphonso are good basketball players but average B10 athleticsim

Trent was only starter with great athleticism but he is only 6'1".
Coleman has hops but did not play loose until end of season vs Iowa and Indiana
Brad was unwilling to give the freshman RJ significant playing time until end of season then he had appendectomy


Next year assuming everybody but Kofi and Jacob return

RJ - athlete
Coleman - athlete
Pods - athlete
Sencire - athlete
Ty - athlete
Andre - athlete

Jaylen-???
Dainja - ???
Omar - has to show more motor

Probably not
Luke (prove me wrong please)
BBV
Brandon L

Without Kofi and Alphonso Brad will be forced to push the pace to generate easy transition baskets. Defense will have to be more aggressive to generate turnovers. Think 89 Flying Illini or 2005 team. Neither one had size.
 
#441      

Point-Illinois

P
Point-Illinois
It’s funny @illini0440 compared BU to Jay Wright and Nova. I was thinking the same thing last night. I remember picking Nova to go far year after year and they kept getting bounced early. Then the year I picked them to get bounced, they went on a run.

Getting to the point where “being in the tourney” is mundane and standard will get our team more focused on making a run and hopefully make them more loose.

These past 2 years have been great, but I wonder how much pressure the guys have felt since there is still that “we are in the tourney now, but what if we go on another dry spell???” mentality surrounding the program.

Once Illinois has been in the tourney 4-5 years straight (with hopefully at least ONE S16 in there) I bet we will be primed for our run back to the F4.

Also, @alaskaillini, thanks for the research! Any chance you could figure out Calipari at UK?
 
#442      

PIT_ILL

P
PIT_ILL
ptgrd23 said:
Kids want to play fast / NBA style

The combination of our lack of athleticism / size and having an all american center led Brad to decide our best chance to win was slow it down and pound it inside.


Without Kofi and Alphonso Brad will be forced to push the pace to generate easy transition baskets. Defense will have to be more aggressive to generate turnovers. Think 89 Flying Illini or 2005 team. Neither one had size.
Click to expand...
Those are such ridiculously opposing things. The 89 team was pretty big; in fact I would say that was a strength of that team. The 05 team was the epitome of kill you in the half court. Could they run? Sure but Bruce's offense was humming with that set of shooters.

I really don't see Brad going back to the "havoc" type defense he used earlier. It is ok to play high risk high reward when you have less talent. When you are the more talented team most days that style just doesn't make sense.
 
#443      

GoodePodzMelendez

G
GoodePodzMelendez
812Jamie said:
I have read lots about the B1G style and how it doesn't translate to the tourney. I don't at all disagree.

Early in the BU tenure, he wanted to play fast (shoot in under 7 seconds) and press & trap (see forcing 25 TOs vs Michigan State) but moved away from it because it was deemed to difficult to win like that in the league. But isn't that really about the athletes? Didn't Illinois just not have enough top tier guys back then but maybe they do now? I'd like to see that again...
Click to expand...
I think he will move back toward that style of play as we will have length and quickness next year. It was hard to do that with slower players with not much length on the floor. I expect him to have a team that looks like his OSU team the one year he was there.
 
#444      

Se Il Illini

Se Il Illini
Se Il Illini
ptgrd23 said:
Kids want to play fast / NBA style

The combination of our lack of athleticism / size and having an all american center led Brad to decide our best chance to win was slow it down and pound it inside.

Ayo and Adam were the best athletes on last years starting five
Kofi is super strong and agile but not a rim runner shot blocker
Andre was out most the season and at 50% when he came back
Jacob DaMonte and Alphonso are good basketball players but average B10 athleticsim

Trent was only starter with great athleticism but he is only 6'1".
Coleman has hops but did not play loose until end of season vs Iowa and Indiana
Brad was unwilling to give the freshman RJ significant playing time until end of season then he had appendectomy


Next year assuming everybody but Kofi and Jacob return

RJ - athlete
Coleman - athlete
Pods - athlete
Sencire - athlete
Ty - athlete
Andre - athlete

Jaylen-???
Dainja - ???
Omar - has to show more motor

Probably not
Luke (prove me wrong please)
BBV
Brandon L

Without Kofi and Alphonso Brad will be forced to push the pace to generate easy transition baskets. Defense will have to be more aggressive to generate turnovers. Think 89 Flying Illini or 2005 team. Neither one had size.
Click to expand...
The 89 team did not have 7 footer. However, they had size at the guard position. Bardo was 6'6" and played the point. Kendall Gill also had length. The guards had the capability to invert and play with their back to the basket. Futhermore, as you have mentioned they were extremely athletic as noted by the different number of players who dunked - often in traffic. Many interchangeable parts.
 
#445      

bartwa

B
bartwa
PIT_ILL said:
Those are such ridiculously opposing things. The 89 team was pretty big; in fact I would say that was a strength of that team. The 05 team was the epitome of kill you in the half court. Could they run? Sure but Bruce's offense was humming with that set of shooters.

I really don't see Brad going back to the "havoc" type defense he used earlier. It is ok to play high risk high reward when you have less talent. When you are the more talented team most days that style just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
It seems to be making sense for Houston.
 
#446      

ptgrd23

ptgrd23
ptgrd23
MannyBianco said:
Also, Tarheels well rested from never having gone to a class.
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LOL

Actually its a shame players waste the opportunity to get an education at a world class university like UNC or UofI.

Thousands of kids don't get admitted and others like myself took out student loans and worked during the school year for opportunity.

Very few kids make the NBA a career. Some opportunities to play a little pro-ball overseas but that may be gone with Covid, China relations, Ukraine war etc.

Get your degree so you have a post basketball life!
 
#447      

alaskaillini

A
alaskaillini
Point-Illinois said:
It’s funny @illini0440 compared BU to Jay Wright and Nova. I was thinking the same thing last night. I remember picking Nova to go far year after year and they kept getting bounced early. Then the year I picked them to get bounced, they went on a run.

Getting to the point where “being in the tourney” is mundane and standard will get our team more focused on making a run and hopefully make them more loose.

These past 2 years have been great, but I wonder how much pressure the guys have felt since there is still that “we are in the tourney now, but what if we go on another dry spell???” mentality surrounding the program.

Once Illinois has been in the tourney 4-5 years straight (with hopefully at least ONE S16 in there) I bet we will be primed for our run back to the F4.

Also, @alaskaillini, thanks for the research! Any chance you could figure out Calipari at UK?
Click to expand...

Kentucky - Calipari (13 years as head coach)

10 tourneys in 12 years
seeds: 1(3), 2(3), 4(2), 5(1), 8(1)
4 final fours with 1 title
3 elite 8s
2 first weekend exits (including 1 in first game - this year as a 2 seed, the other as a 4 seed)

In five years from 2011 to 2015 he made all 4 of his final fours, in the middle year he went to the NIT and lost the first game. One of the final fours (lost in championship game) was as an 8 seed. Since the last final four in 2015, he has not had a 1 seed, but got to the elite 8 twice as a 2 seed.
 
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