Illini Basketball

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#126      
We will be preseason top 3 in the b10 if the offseason plays out the way I think
I assume you mean some combination of transfers into the program and a specific assistant coach joining the staff? For transfers, are there specific players the staff feels confident about or just the fact there'll be a large pool of players to choose from?
 
#127      

Ryllini

Lombard
My perception is that BU schematics are overly complex. Seems like other NCAA coaches run more basic offenses/defenses.

Saw a team yesterday effectively switch to a zone to stop the isolation plays.

I think this leads to our turnovers, slow starts and ealy season losses/poor games.
I agree with @IllinoisssssssVarsity as far as our sets being basic, but when executed very tough to defend. Under BU, when his teams are patient and running unselfish offense, it getd any shot it wants. If you want to see a lot of sets and actions, watch purdue...wouldn't believe in their loss the other night, but to me Paint must have one the largest playbooks out there.
 
#128      
uhhh, gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there.

Sounds like Shannon will be back. I think he knows he didn't really improve his NBA stock enough to be a 1st rounder. If he has another year, why not use it?

Epps is not the best upside, that would be Rodgers by a pretty wide margin. Rodgers with a jumpshot is a monster.

I hope Dainja returns but he has some pretty glaring deficiencies currently. He can't shoot FTs, which stinks because his quick feet earn him a lot of FT attempts, he plays horrible help defense, and he fouls too much. That said, he's really only a Fr PTwise, and I think he could be great with improvement.

If Shannon returns, he is the leader of the team not Hawkins. I'm pretty ambivalent on Coleman, he does a lot of good things and a lot of boneheaded things. However, he's just not a good shooter. If he can make the NBA well color me shocked, go for it. If he returns I'm fine with that, work on the mental errors and he could have a strong Sr. year.

There are a lot of things to still play out but if we can return Shannon, RJ, Goode, Rodgers, Harris, and Dainja that's a solid core. I think Hansberry is going to be legit right out of the gates. Not a star, but he will be a solid contributor as a Fr. DGL is a wildcard, but he has some serious scoring potential. We will bring in a transfer PG (fingers crossed on Yuri Collins), we'll bring in a transfer big (no clue who to even want there) and probably one other guy.

Still a lot to play out, but I'll take that roster into the Big Ten and feel great. We lost this year because they weren't playing team ball and we really didn't have a PG. And of course no one could shoot. Give everyone another year of experience and remove the guys that want to do their own thing, and I think we'll be better next year.
Is there any real talk of Yuri taking his 5th year? The only interesting thing he's said is that he does not want to play overseas. Said there is a 99% chance he's done with college basketball.
 
#129      

MDchicago

Lake Norman NC
I agree with @IllinoisssssssVarsity as far as our sets being basic, but when executed very tough to defend. Under BU, when his teams are patient and running unselfish offense, it getd any shot it wants. If you want to see a lot of sets and actions, watch purdue...wouldn't believe in their loss the other night, but to me Paint must have one the largest playbooks out there.
I also immediately thought of Purdue when thinking of programs with the thickest playbooks.
 
#130      
I agree with @IllinoisssssssVarsity as far as our sets being basic, but when executed very tough to defend. Under BU, when his teams are patient and running unselfish offense, it getd any shot it wants. If you want to see a lot of sets and actions, watch purdue...wouldn't believe in their loss the other night, but to me Paint must have one the largest playbooks out there.
Agreed on Purdue’s playbook but just goes to show, if the shots don’t go in, nothing else matters.

Basketball is so basic in a way lol
 
#131      

DICKnaggie

Champaign
BU runs a lot of basic concepts (even the spread is a watered down version of the triangle—I watched a video once and Tex Winter said there were something like 111 reads built into the triangle). We ran a fair amount of zoom action this year, which is extremely common in college basketball these days. We did it in a way that works with our system, the same way other teams do. We also ran some p/r iso stuff like everyone else too.
Ya, neither basic spread (like we attempted to run) or zoom are difficult offenses to run. I've even run basic zoom actions with 5th graders.
 
#132      
I also immediately thought of Purdue when thinking of programs with the thickest playbooks.
"Purdue runs more than 250 offensive plays organized in around half a dozen categories, an elaborate playbook that players memorize in early morning workouts in the weeks before the season begins."

The above quote is from a NY Times article that I found yesterday. It's mostly about Edey but also touches on Painter's philosophy on recruiting and/or the transfer portal, as well as team psychology. Seems Purdue was dealing with confidence issues. I thought it was an interesting read.
 
#133      
I mean like I kiiiiiinda am willing to go along with blaming Mayer and Clark for a lot of the problems, those were the principals of a lot of the rumors and whispers when it was all falling apart after all, but it's a little too convenient of a narrative for my taste.

Shannon and Hawkins would be the undisputed leaders. Really talented players, but are we totally confident in them as crunch time go-to figures? How could we be?

Does a younger and less decorated version of next year's team actually have a higher ceiling and brighter long term outlook? I'm only willing to state that with a question mark at the end, but it does stick in the back of my mind, I confess.
I always had this feeling that Mayer and Shannon brought some attitude with them being older and from successful programs. Maybe Underwood gave up some control of the game decisions to those guys to make them feel more valuable, and to put them in more of a leadership role. Hearing multiple players say they didn’t follow game plans was really striking. In previous years that wouldn’t happen. Losing our point guard also was a blow to team development. All in all a toxic mix that was a fatal combination. I’m hoping this was a one off, and next year they’ll be back on the good track they’ve been on.
 
#134      
We need an Alpha next year. Not really confident that Coleman and TSJ are either of those without a huge step forward.

May the roundball gods gift the Illini with someone who has a court persona like Jalen Pickett. The supremely confident player who struts around the court like an Alpha Peacock and who oozes the floor presence of ‘I’m the best damn player on the court and I pity the man that doubts that!’...

Not that I care for arrogance as such. But the Illini desperately need someone with that kind of leadership and ability to deliver in the clutch and snarl with happy glee. Ayo had/has a sense of that... but with Pickett it’s pleasantly over the top.

How about 'Every Day Guys Meet a Thicket of Pickett?'

And I don't mean Wilson, either. Even though he also had nice 'attitude'. And let's surely not wait until the Midnight Hour or until Mustang Sally returns home.
 
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#135      
I know exactly what you mean. Shannon seems like a great kid, but there were definitely chemistry issues and a break-down of communication between coaches and players this season. Not sure who played what role in it, but I know I don't want to see anything like it again next year.
TJ would need to go to his right as well as left and be able to stop and shoot the mid range 2 rather than driving into a crowd. Not a dependable option as a one trick dog. JMHO
 
#136      
Just my opinion, but by the time players are college-age one can consistently, differentially coach/teach defense and a system of offense (plays, sets) that gets open looks and maximizes match-ups/advantages... but shooting whether close-range, long-range, free throw or whatever is a knack and skill that coaching can't all of a sudden turn bad to good.

Coaching can’t... but the player can. Lots of examples of guys who greatly improved some aspect of shooting... not the least of whom is Michael the GOAT. He worked tirelessly to improve his shooting and he accomplished that supremely.

Shooting is a combination of mental approach and mechanics... both of which needing to be constantly refined and practiced. Sometimes a simple mechanical flaw tweak can make a world of difference. And one’s attitude and confidence in shooting is just as important if not more so.

For example, it’s incredible how many guys at all ball levels are so good at shooting long range. You didn’t see that years ago. A guy here and there, yes. But not like today. Even at the high school level there are some long-range savants. And it’s a beautiful thing.

And at the pro level today if you can't hit from Downtown there's no going Uptown.
 
#137      
Unless Edey is back Shannon would probably be the preseason BTPOY. (I assume Kris Murray and Jalen Hood-Schifino will go pro)

That feels...kinda weird?

I dunno, I'm conflicted, this was such a bad vibes mess of a team the thought of mostly running it back doesn't give me the excitement maybe it should.
Agree but you gotta assume Shannon after scoring 17 a game gets better at something in the off-season. Either being able to play with his right hand or consistently hit 3s makes him pretty tough to beat at the college level.
 
#139      
Edey is not going anywhere. No place in NBA for the big man and he loves Purdue! I hope all the men are back next year, I am happy Mattybuckets is gone. I'll never forget our 1st round lost in big10 tournament 2nd half. Cohawk with the ball up top and Matty circling him with 1 ft. . Coleman still would not give him the ball. Tells us all we need to know. Epps, Harris, Dainja, Goode, Rj. SHANNON, Cohawk, Ty.. Bring in a legit point guard and a 6.8 ft rebounding bully. We will be good to go.
 
#140      
Have to have 5 offensive threats on the floor to get to where we want to go. Rodgers can be one if he can make a 10 footer. He will be like a poor man’s Pickett who crashes the board with abandon. Harris was not a threat so he was more of a gadget guy this year. He has a ways to go. Epps, Goode, Good version of RJ and Shannon are all threats. Dain and Hawkins are threats in the post. Need a guard that is true point guard that also shots 37% plus from 3. Also a big that can shoot to spread the floor. There was no spacing because there were guys that didn’t have to really be guarded hard.
 
#141      
TJ would need to go to his right as well as left and be able to stop and shoot the mid range 2 rather than driving into a crowd. Not a dependable option as a one trick dog. JMHO
Good points. I think the biggest hindrance for TSJ going forward might be his "hands". Lot of drops and on his drives he seems to lose contol of ball before shooting. Just an observation.
 
#143      
Agree but you gotta assume Shannon after scoring 17 a game gets better at something in the off-season. Either being able to play with his right hand or consistently hit 3s makes him pretty tough to beat at the college level.
Have you ever noticed that the majority of left handed basketball players are really left handed? They can and do show the the right hand but generally that's all it is, a show, and it's right back to their very dominant hand. It just appears that right handed players by and large are more apt to use their off hand more often. With that being said there are too many players that can't use the correct hand around the rim.

Good points. I think the biggest hindrance for TSJ going forward might be his "hands". Lot of drops and on his drives he seems to lose contol of ball before shooting. Just an observation.
You're not wrong. I understand that the way he plays means he's in a crowd and there's lots of arms in their but that's definitely something that needs work, among other things.
 
#146      
Is there any real talk of Yuri taking his 5th year? The only interesting thing he's said is that he does not want to play overseas. Said there is a 99% chance he's done with college basketball.
Well there is talk by me at least. I am no insider, but Yuri will have hundreds of thousands of reasons to play 1 more year, and he will basically be able to pick his team.
 
#147      
My perception is that BU schematics are overly complex. Seems like other NCAA coaches run more basic offenses/defenses.

Saw a team yesterday effectively switch to a zone to stop the isolation plays.

I think this leads to our turnovers, slow starts and ealy season losses/poor games.
I was under he impression that this was Groce's issue. I think Underwood allows the guys more freedom on offense. I would like more set plays late in the game.
 
#148      

NASchamp

Atlanta
I mean like I kiiiiiinda am willing to go along with blaming Mayer and Clark for a lot of the problems, those were the principals of a lot of the rumors and whispers when it was all falling apart after all, but it's a little too convenient of a narrative for my taste.

Shannon and Hawkins would be the undisputed leaders. Really talented players, but are we totally confident in them as crunch time go-to figures? How could we be?

Does a younger and less decorated version of next year's team actually have a higher ceiling and brighter long term outlook? I'm only willing to state that with a question mark at the end, but it does stick in the back of my mind, I confess.

I really felt MM was the biggest source of counter-culture on the team this past year. I never really bought into his persona, but bit my tongue most of the year. Maybe that’s because he came in to improve his NBA stock and collect a paycheck and wasn’t as hungry to win a national championship 🤷🏽‍♂️. That’s just from observation of his behavior and what he said. No insight there. But you could tell his attitude of not listening to Brad was rubbing off on a lot of the players at the beginning of the year.

Conversely, over the course of the season, I never felt like TSJ wasn’t trying, I just think he never fully adjusted to being the every-day-go-to-player. And better in the role of taking over a game every once in awhile or a few minutes here and there. From what I saw, TSJ was often giving it his all.
 
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