Definitely could have helped vs Winthrop. Against FSU we were 18-21, pretty good. Shot them poorly vs WVa, but that was not the reason we lost that one.
Illinois 75, Missouri 66 POSTGAME
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Definitely could have helped vs Winthrop. Against FSU we were 18-21, pretty good. Shot them poorly vs WVa, but that was not the reason we lost that one.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
I'm probably in the minority here on Tate and TJL, but Groce has to win now. Him making the tournament keeps a great class coming in next year (I have no idea if the commits would try to bail if Groce was fired, but it would be possible). So if Tate is best option on both ends of the court to win now. Then play Tate. I don't see any debate on who will be the better player when both have used up 4 years of playing time at Illinois. We know that will be TJL. But who is best for Illinois today? We've also seen Hill, Nunn, Black all struggle for consistent PT as Fresh. only to come on strong later in the year. Could be the case for TJL. It's clear that TJL isn't consistent in some area during practice, and that's why he's not playing. Outside of toughness n togetherness, that's the thing Groce has repeated over and over to us. Players play Players.
True. Tate will never be a big scorer or flashy enough for some. He has some obvious weaknesses but he does have some things he does well. Would I like him to be a bit more assertive in getting the offense going yes. But he does do some things well. He doesn't turn it over and plays fairly consistent defense. He also does a good job in setting up his teammates. At this point Groce trusts him much more than TJL. Yes TJL brings some offensive ability and assertiveness that Tate lacks but he is far from a finished product. This whole thing reminds me how fans are always in love with the back-up quarterback. If Groce believed the TJL gave them a better chance to win he would be playing more.
Illinithad
- Northeast Missouri
I agree with what you are saying. I think if we cut down on turnovers and knock down free throws we maybe have a 15-18 point lead at halftime instead of the 10 point lead. Both can be improved pretty easily.
He had been doing better this year. What gets him in trouble is he always seems to get 1 or 2 cheap ones on the offensive end after the other team secures a rebound. It is usually a reach in to try to pry the ball out. If he can eliminate this tendency he could keep himself out of trouble.
Ransom Stoddard
Ordained Dudeist Priest
- Bloomington, IL
He was solid with what he did, but he passed up a number of open shots. I think a lot of the griping about his game would dissolve if he'd take (and make) some of those.
Highlights
[YOUTUBE]Bt3p8wIaXWQ[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]Bt3p8wIaXWQ[/YOUTUBE]
I'm glad we won. Four in a row Braggin' Rights. Great game for Mav, he's our new double-double machine. I also want to take this opportunity to complain about the refs - for all those times we lost and they sucked, here's a win where they sucked. It's almost as if the crew was trying to sculpt a close game, but just couldn't manage it due to how bad Missouri is... The team that was up by ~10 most of the game also had the other team in the bonus for about 1/2 the game - uhhh, ok.
I was afraid we might be something like 4-9 at this point, the way things were going early on. I'm happy for the coach and team that they've put this win streak together.
I was afraid we might be something like 4-9 at this point, the way things were going early on. I'm happy for the coach and team that they've put this win streak together.
There's not enough memory on the internet to post the answer.
A couple of points:
Mizzou might be the worst offensive team we've faced. I think they airballed 2 or 3 wide open looks... It was sad to watch how terrible they were.
If a team played 40 minutes of zone against us, we'd be lucky to score 30 pts. We literally stand around for the first 20 seconds of the shot clock then iso. Its embarrassing to see how we go flat when not facing man to man.
Refs were a little shaky and you can call them bad, but we just didnt play well at times.
All that aside--this team should be rewarded for winning 6 straight. NCSU, VCU, and BYU are all respectable teams and though none may end up beinga top 50 win, they all are positive steps forward for the program. Going into the season I expected to finish with 11-2 non-con, with 10-3 being the floor. Losing to FSU and especially WVU is not something we should hang our heads on, they are both tournament teams and really shouldn't be viewed as a negative. Winthrop is a different story, but msot teams give up a bad lose--I take solace in it being an OT loss too.
Hopefully we have enough film of what we can do right and what we do wrong and get our ducks in a row. We have legit scorers at every position. Thats something not many teams can say. All five positions can score 20+ pts a game. Mav showed it last night, and I think JCL is warming up. We could've play better against a dreadful Mizzou team but these things happen. A win is a win.
Mizzou might be the worst offensive team we've faced. I think they airballed 2 or 3 wide open looks... It was sad to watch how terrible they were.
If a team played 40 minutes of zone against us, we'd be lucky to score 30 pts. We literally stand around for the first 20 seconds of the shot clock then iso. Its embarrassing to see how we go flat when not facing man to man.
Refs were a little shaky and you can call them bad, but we just didnt play well at times.
All that aside--this team should be rewarded for winning 6 straight. NCSU, VCU, and BYU are all respectable teams and though none may end up beinga top 50 win, they all are positive steps forward for the program. Going into the season I expected to finish with 11-2 non-con, with 10-3 being the floor. Losing to FSU and especially WVU is not something we should hang our heads on, they are both tournament teams and really shouldn't be viewed as a negative. Winthrop is a different story, but msot teams give up a bad lose--I take solace in it being an OT loss too.
Hopefully we have enough film of what we can do right and what we do wrong and get our ducks in a row. We have legit scorers at every position. Thats something not many teams can say. All five positions can score 20+ pts a game. Mav showed it last night, and I think JCL is warming up. We could've play better against a dreadful Mizzou team but these things happen. A win is a win.
You are right that Mizzou is the worst offensive team faced thus far but they are also the second best defensive team so far next to WVU. That being said it is a good omen that the team still hung a mid 70s score on them. This team is capable of scoring and rebounding at a pretty high level.
I really like Black and most of his game but frankly the skills he has over the rest of our frontline pertain to his aggressive approach to the game. In a closely called game he will either foul or disappear while avoiding a foul either of which lead to a disappointing performance. I think the O's in conference play will lend more to Black's aggressive nature. With that being said I feel the rest of the front court could take a cue from Black and become more aggressive and contact seeking as we head into conference where it will be more likely tolerated on most nights.
Last night Duke vs. a 7-5 Elon team 72-61, Villanova vs. a now 3-8 Western Michigan team 76-65, Illinois vs. a 5-6 Missouri team 75-66. It happens.
Last year at this point we were a long way on the outside looking in of an NCAA berth. After a difficult week that had the makings of breaking our season, we have battled back to put us right back in position to earn that much needed NCAA appearance.
I think too many on here want JG gone so bad, they can't enjoy a team that has serious potential and a recruiting class on the horizon that is ranked 6th in the country.
Its taken a lot longer than any of us thought/hoped, but I'm so hopeful JG has finally gotten the program to turn the corner.
A few more months on selection Sunday we will know.
And with his reputation he's not going to get the benefit of the doubt on those plays. Need to be smarter
I couldn't watch last night, but it's always good to win that game. It won't appear as a good win by the end of the year, but it's a win rather than a bad loss. Other than that, it's not realistic to try and draw conclusions from a game like that.
Furthermore, I think our noncon record tells us nothing. We beat a bunch of not so great teams and lost to a couple of good teams (and on not so good). Pretty much the same as most P6 teams. The conference season will tell us who we are.
Lots of teams in conference look beatable. Let's see what Groce has learned over the past couple of years.
Furthermore, I think our noncon record tells us nothing. We beat a bunch of not so great teams and lost to a couple of good teams (and on not so good). Pretty much the same as most P6 teams. The conference season will tell us who we are.
Lots of teams in conference look beatable. Let's see what Groce has learned over the past couple of years.
Black has a nice md-range game and jumper that can be very effective. That does not affect his aggressiveness. Some of his fouls are silly and unnecessary in nature, he has to control his emotions in games. Otherwise, he will exit the game and disappear by default. Picking early fouls also limits his ability to get into the flow of the game for longer stretches, independent of just total minutes.
In the post game who asks Mav about "the guy who took a swing at you." I mean I can make an assumption who it is, but c'mon, are you trying to get our guys to say stupid stuff? And the Mizzou guy may have chested up, but I'm not sure he took a swing.
I'd rather see more TJL, but Tate was OK. Our offense grinds to a halt against zone. Would love to see us really get out and run and have to play more bench....DJW should be getting 15 minutes and Kiper and TJL should be getting 10. I'm afraid Hill will wear down by the end of the year if his minutes stay this high (didn't look them up, but he seemed to play a lot). I'm perfectly fine with the big rotation as it was tonight, even though Black was limited due to foul trouble.
All in all, a nice win even if it was ugly and a tough listen on TV. The Winthrop game still bugs me because we may be getting poll recognition had we not lost that game.
I'd rather see more TJL, but Tate was OK. Our offense grinds to a halt against zone. Would love to see us really get out and run and have to play more bench....DJW should be getting 15 minutes and Kiper and TJL should be getting 10. I'm afraid Hill will wear down by the end of the year if his minutes stay this high (didn't look them up, but he seemed to play a lot). I'm perfectly fine with the big rotation as it was tonight, even though Black was limited due to foul trouble.
All in all, a nice win even if it was ugly and a tough listen on TV. The Winthrop game still bugs me because we may be getting poll recognition had we not lost that game.
I just confirmed. We wanna.
POY ! ! !:thumb:
89illinigrad
- Chicago
More relevant to the current conversation, Xavier only beat MizNoz by 1 back on Nov. 17th. Thus, by association, we should be able to beat Xavier by 8.
"I'd rather see more TJL, but Tate was OK. Our offense grinds to a halt against zone. Would love to see us really get out and run and have to play more bench....DJW should be getting 15 minutes and Kiper and TJL should be getting 10. I'm afraid Hill will wear down by the end of the year if his minutes stay this high (didn't look them up, but he seemed to play a lot). I'm perfectly fine with the big rotation as it was tonight, even though Black was limited due to foul trouble.
All in all, a nice win even if it was ugly and a tough listen on TV. The Winthrop game still bugs me because we may be getting poll recognition had we not lost that game."[/QUOTE]
Post of the Day!!! Totally agree, I think Hill will wear down if he keeps play 30-35/game. I like the Hill, DJW, and Black (or Finke) line-up with one of the centers.
All in all, a nice win even if it was ugly and a tough listen on TV. The Winthrop game still bugs me because we may be getting poll recognition had we not lost that game."[/QUOTE]
Post of the Day!!! Totally agree, I think Hill will wear down if he keeps play 30-35/game. I like the Hill, DJW, and Black (or Finke) line-up with one of the centers.
I agree with your post in it's entirety. The point I was trying to make however is that I feel Black has only two speeds, fast and faster lol. When the officials allow, his aggressive style shines. His careless behavior is typically masked by a officiating crew that is letting both squads play. I don't think he does a better job in one game or another of controlling his emotions or play but rather that he is at the mercy of the O's. He will need to learn to play as the game is called as he matures but right now that virtue seems beyond him. We can only hope that games are called more loosely in conference or Black will be a problem. IMHO trying to cage Black at this point may do more harm than good. He is a beast, let him eat!
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