Illinois 77, Tennessee-Martin 74 POSTGAME

#126      

TheFameProtector

TheFameProtector
Champaign
TheFameProtector
PlayAZ said:
Quick thoughts:
Tale of 2 halves for sure
Black-Jordan seem to have made great strides, lets hope it continues
Finke needs to become more aggressive for 6-10
Williams seems to flow with the game, he will get his minutes
Frazier and Lucas seem to be a very very good 2 PG team so far
Smith is way more talented and engaged than most any freshman we have had for some time.
Nichols is one of the most athletic, needs more minutes
Alstork, hasn't really shown me much as of yet to be honest...for a grad transfer, if this stays the norm, I can understand why BU is not fond of taking them.

overall good win for a young team...so far peaks and valleys for games, it will be the norm this year, but it will be fun to watch for a change.
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Funny, I thought Finke was super aggressive - he laid out on the floor multiple times going for loose balls. Unfortunately, his lack of athleticism really hurts him on the boards. There were a couple boards he missed simply because he couldn't elevate much and UTM's forwards could, so his height advantage was moot. Can't teach athleticism, but seeing him going hard for loose balls was a really good sign that Underwood's post-EIU message came through loud and clear.

Speaking of which, there was one moment during a loose ball where I could hear Leron (I think) yelling "get on the ground!" to AJ and one other player. AJ just kinda fell on the floor to be apart of the scrum but it's pretty obvious that the players are motivated to make those hustle plays under this staff. Groce always seemed to talk about these plays yet couldn't find the means to motivate our players. Treadmill or something else, Underwood is making it work.
 
#127      

doowink

D
doowink
IlliniJim20 said:
Shouldn't we be passing v that pressure instead of trying to beat it by dribbling?
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I think it is a combination of both.....but recognizing that a double team or pressure is coming and use the bounce or make the pass before the trap goes into effect....it's all about decision making...hopefully that comes with experience and age
 
#128      

westcoastillini

W
westcoastillini
Obelix said:
Some observations from the first 2 games.

Positives:

I like our guards, they will only get better. At 1-2, we have solid depth, not sure if they will be ready this year to emerge as game changers through B1G competition, but they will only get better. Mark Smith seems more comfortable playing in a combo role, than PG.

I also like how we push the ball, one of my biggest pet peeves had been walking the ball upcourt (e.g., Abrams). Style of play is fun.

Concerns:

Our perimeter defense is still very loose, including at guards. We need to tighten up the rest of the pre-conference schedule, one of the most critical games is our early game against Maryland at home, and IMO Anthony Cowan is one of the best PG in B1G and will shine this year without Melo.

Our frontcourt is also a big concern. We have played teams weak in the frontcourt with really no quality bigs. We really do not have many options in the frontcourt, really no depth, and I think we will struggle against teams with strong frontcourts, including Mizzou. Not much we can do, but we definitely need to add with recruiting in the Spring.
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I agree. I love watching Underwood’s style of play on both o and d, but we are going to get destroyed inside this year in the BIG. We just don’t have the bulk/size. I have this bad feeling that underwood may have to resort to zone to mitigate that. I hope I am wrong
 
#131      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
westcoastillini said:
I agree. I love watching Underwood’s style of play on both o and d, but we are going to get destroyed inside this year in the BIG. We just don’t have the bulk/size. I have this bad feeling that underwood may have to resort to zone to mitigate that. I hope I am wrong
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why? Wouldn't you rather have a Coach who adjusts to try to win games?
 
#133      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
TheFameProtector said:
Funny, I thought Finke was super aggressive - he laid out on the floor multiple times going for loose balls. Unfortunately, his lack of athleticism really hurts him on the boards. There were a couple boards he missed simply because he couldn't elevate much and UTM's forwards could, so his height advantage was moot. Can't teach athleticism, but seeing him going hard for loose balls was a really good sign that Underwood's post-EIU message came through loud and clear.

Speaking of which, there was one moment during a loose ball where I could hear Leron (I think) yelling "get on the ground!" to AJ and one other player. AJ just kinda fell on the floor to be apart of the scrum but it's pretty obvious that the players are motivated to make those hustle plays under this staff. Groce always seemed to talk about these plays yet couldn't find the means to motivate our players. Treadmill or something else, Underwood is making it work.
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I agree with the Finke notations, however, several times he flailed onto the floor (albeit love the intent) was not warranted, he had no chance at the play at all. That is not being aggressive, it is being reckless for no reason and as a upperclassmen whom we need desperately due to size, he needs to differentiate moving forward.

I noticed the AJ "fall down here involvement" and remember watching going WTF was that? LOL :chief:
 
#134      

PlayAZ

P
PlayAZ
pruman91 said:
a double double in his first game showed me something...
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That first game was against whom again? Being consistent is a must and should be expected by a grad transfer wanting to make an NBA name for himself...sorry just don't see it?

I would not be surprised to see minutes very very even across the guard board by year end...Alstork will pay dividends in B1G play for sure, but overall?:chief:
 
#135      

TheFameProtector

TheFameProtector
Champaign
TheFameProtector
PlayAZ said:
I agree with the Finke notations, however, several times he flailed onto the floor (albeit love the intent) was not warranted, he had no chance at the play at all. That is not being aggressive, it is being reckless for no reason and as a upperclassmen whom we need desperately due to size, he needs to differentiate moving forward.

I noticed the AJ "fall down here involvement" and remember watching going WTF was that? LOL :chief:
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LOL, too true. I almost wonder if the staff implemented some way of valuing hustle plays where you get on the floor for the ball, and the players were just like, "well, here goes!" :D

And completely agree with the comments on Finke. At this point in the season, I'm just pumped that our coach is able to get our players to do what he wants (hustle) immediately after stating the need for those changes (i.e. EIU presser), rather than trying to rely on flipping a switch come conference/big game time.
 
#136      

Mike

Mike
C-U Townie
Mike
PlayAZ said:
I agree with the Finke notations, however, several times he flailed onto the floor (albeit love the intent) was not warranted, he had no chance at the play at all. That is not being aggressive, it is being reckless for no reason and as a upperclassmen whom we need desperately due to size, he needs to differentiate moving forward.

I noticed the AJ "fall down here involvement" and remember watching going WTF was that? LOL :chief:
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Well, you saw my pic of AJ on the last page right? ;)
He was a hustling monster...
 

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#137      

MWN43

M
MWN43
My take aways:

it will be interesting to see how well Finke and Black can stay out of foul trouble against better opponents when they are playing deny defense 25 feet from the basket. Neither are quick footed enough to get back and recover on D, combined with them being tired from all the time on the court, could lead to increased fouling (always been a prob for Black).

Mark smith may be our best player already. And can be special in due time. His body control/positioning is outstanding (I know he had some tough charge calls).

AJ23 is playing with new confidence both shooting the ball and knowing where to be on D. He is hustling and showing great rotations when needed. Only a junior I would love to see what he has early in this season perhaps getting more time over a 5th year senior in Alstork.

Damonte Williams when he gets down in a defensive stance is a guy you will not be able to just blow by. He has long arms that allows him to get into passing lanes and also has a knack for rebounding the ball for a guard. I would love to see him and Mark Smith as slashers getting to be bucket and getting and ones (just like Damontes dad did).

The zone is great prep work for the team, but other than Mark Smith penetrating and dishing, I did not see much different on offense against the zone than we have seen in the past. (Passing around the key and Back/Finke flashing high low).

Three point shooting has not been off to a great start, but we have seen some shooting in spurts and I think more will fall as the guys settle into the season.

We saw ZERO transition offense last night... what happened to the 7 seconds and trying to score?

I hope we have a great week of prep leading up to Depaul, I think this one will be a battle for the boys...

Go Illini
 
#138      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
MWN43 said:
We saw ZERO transition offense last night... what happened to the 7 seconds and trying to score?
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Other team was making a very conscious effort to have multiple guys back when a shot went up. Also while we did force some turnovers there weren't a whole lot of live ball turnovers which cuts down on the opportunities to run.
 
#139      

jmilt7

J
Waukegan
jmilt7
TheFameProtector said:
LOL, too true. I almost wonder if the staff implemented some way of valuing hustle plays where you get on the floor for the ball, and the players were just like, "well, here goes!" :D
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Maybe something like one treadmill pass for every five times on the floor
 
#140      

HTT

H
HTT
I think Alstork shares some similar merits and weakness with Ray Rice.

They are both very good if you give them license to play one on one basketball or attack off the screen. But they don't usually see open teammates well in that process (is it because the school they played in has no other offense threat?). Also they do not move well when other players are dominating the offense (I remembered Rice struggling after Hill became the best player on that team, and we were better team without Rice).

Rice smashed potato teams well because he can beat anyone on those team by one on one play. Alstork might just be as good against Southern/UTM if BU allowed him to play one on one basketball. But heading to B1G games they will struggle because almost every conference team has the wings that can handle Rice/Alstork one-on-one well enough.

For this reason, I am all for BU forces Alstork to learn to be be efficient even if not being the 1st choice on offense. If MA cannot learn it well heading to the conference game, his starting role will be handed to AJ or KN.
 
#141      

Sal Iacuzzo

S
Yonkers, NY
Sal Iacuzzo
I think some posters are letting their preconceived biases and fears of Alstork cloud the reality of what was actually happening on the court. He had no problem finding the open teammate in the first two games, showing both good awareness and passing ability. If anything I think he needs to be more aggressive and look for his shot more. Defenders have had a hard time guarding him without fouling. He was our top performer in game 1, just missed some shots he normally drains in game 2.

Alstork is on the team to get to the line and hit threes, maybe Jordan keeps playing at this level but I'd be very surprised if he is able to get to the line at the same clip as Alstork. I think it would take an Aaron Cosby like shooting regression for him to lose minutes to Jordan. More likely Jordan takes Frazier and Williams' minutes.
 
#144      

Peoria Illini

P
Peoria, IL
Peoria Illini
Sal Iacuzzo said:
I think some posters are letting their preconceived biases and fears of Alstork cloud the reality of what was actually happening on the court. He had no problem finding the open teammate in the first two games, showing both good awareness and passing ability. If anything I think he needs to be more aggressive and look for his shot more. Defenders have had a hard time guarding him without fouling. He was our top performer in game 1, just missed some shots he normally drains in game 2.

Alstork is on the team to get to the line and hit threes, maybe Jordan keeps playing at this level but I'd be very surprised if he is able to get to the line at the same clip as Alstork. I think it would take an Aaron Cosby like shooting regression for him to lose minutes to Jordan. More likely Jordan takes Frazier and Williams' minutes.
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If TeJon continues to turn the ball over near the end of games, you may see Smith and Williams bringing the ball up and TeJon on the bench come crunch time. Leaving some minutes for Alstork and/or AJ. Trent may be a bit small right now to handle some of the pressing from teams end game.
 
#145      

iLL 89ers

iLL 89ers
Dallas,TX , Born and raised in Alton,Illinois
iLL 89ers
Rad said:
Loved what I saw from DMW. Reminds me a lot of Nick Anderson but better passer.
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Now you making me "Giddy" :thumb: on Anderson comparison,,and I now can I please get a Kendall Gill ,Lowell Hamilton,Kenny Battle,Stephen Bardo ,Marcus Liberty comparison from some of the others,,,,,,,then you will make me wanna go get on my crouch rocket and pop it up at 80 MPH on the freeway....and ride it till my "Last Silver Dollar" because it will be 5 o`clock somewhere.;)
 
#146      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
This is what we are going to see for a while at least. A roller coaster ride full of ups and downs. Hopefully we win a few we shouldn't to make up for the inevitable loss to someone we shouldn't lose to.
 
#148      

FiveStar

F
FiveStar
westcoastillini said:
A coach who adjusts and uses zone to change up the flow of the game yes, but not because we have personnel shortcomings.... which we probably have.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but you gotta play who you got. You gotta coach how you gotta coach, based on who you got.

MWN43 said:
My take aways:

The zone is great prep work for the team, but other than Mark Smith penetrating and dishing, I did not see much different on offense against the zone than we have seen in the past. (Passing around the key and Back/Finke flashing high

Go Illini
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The zone offense is different. The setup is more gaps oriented while Groce was More matchup oriented. Groce essentially wanted to turn the zone into man to ball screen. He would also stand a man at the high post as opposed to flash. Flashing is much harder to guard. BU spaces guys so when they catch the ball they have driving lanes into gaps or passing lanes to flashing guards/bigs. Both are common approaches.
 
#149      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
FiveStar said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you gotta play who you got. You gotta coach how you gotta coach, based on who you got.



The zone offense is different. The setup is more gaps oriented while Groce was More matchup oriented. Groce essentially wanted to turn the zone into man to ball screen. He would also stand a man at the high post as opposed to flash. Flashing is much harder to guard. BU spaces guys so when they catch the ball they have driving lanes into gaps or passing lanes to flashing guards/bigs. Both are common approaches.
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Big problem I saw at times was flooding the strong side of the floor. Spacing was terrible at times with all 5 players on the same half of the floor. No room to operate with everyone clustered together.
 
#150      

HTT

H
HTT
blackdog said:
Big problem I saw at times was flooding the strong side of the floor. Spacing was terrible at times with all 5 players on the same half of the floor. No room to operate with everyone clustered together.
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I like that play actually. Smith/Kipper/Alstork has the option to move to the weak side and get the ball. Then their lane to the basket is clear baring one defender (which they usually can beat by their physicality). If the opponent bigs sag to the basket to protect, then our bigs can make jump shots (which Finke/Black are very good at).

Groce likes to spread 4 guards evenly at perimeter. When Rice/Hill slashes in, the defender on Tate can always forget Tate and come to help.