Hill should be first team all B1G next year, plus Nunn and JCL have the potential to be 2nd/3rd team all B1G. Plus, you have skilled players who have put their freshman year behind them in Finke, DJW, and AJ. Plus, Morgan has turned into a competent post player. And Groce finally has a PG that he can develop in TJL. And I'm not even factoring in potentially having Black, Thorne, and/or a healthy Tracy Abrams. Even if you don't like Groce, don't you at least want to see what he can do with a full and complete team? The last time he had a full team, we made the tournament. Can't you support the team, give Groce a chance, and if he doesn't get the job done then make the coaching change?
Illinois Basketball 2016-2017
- Status
You are putting a lot of faith in having a full team. Nunn, Black and Tate's status are tenuous at best. Abrams is a significant injury risk and no telling with Thorne
I'm not even sure you're disagreeing with me. Seems like your point is that years of suckage has lead to a downturn of fans being vocal and not attending games. I certainly agree with that and that John Groce is a big part of the reason. Caring or not caring is just semantics after that.
Yes we need to be healthier, but it isn't all blind faith either...
...we would miss Nunn a lot, but he is at our deepest position.
...Tate, if he is gone I think you roll the dice on a 5th yr senior and is that really a bad thing at this point?...maybe actually helps take the pressure off Abrams if you get lucky
...Abrams is a risk, probably as much so on how well he has recovered, but we need him at pg.
With Black & Thorne we need both at big, but Groce knows the real situation/odds with both & he better be leveraging the 5th yr transfer market.
We had a bad situation with injuries this year, with Thorne/Abrams/Black there is a risk with set backs/recovery/injury this is a risk. There is always a risk of injury to any player, but every team deals with that.
On dismissals/waivers Groce better understand the situations & likelihood on these & he has some opportunity to control or plan for likely results...if they are back great, if they are not he needs to be actively replacing them which is also an opportunity to reduce risks at 1 & big. Sure it isn't Black & White on these guys...but we can't head into next year with 4 open scholarships from 3 dismissals & a missed redshirt waiver either. Groce needs to manage the roster/risks or he is likely out of a job.
Got a question. Can a D2 player transfer to D1 and play right away? Been watching a D2 team (where my boy is a baseball coach) and they have a kid that is intriguing.
When I saw him early last year as a frosh, I thought he was raw. But, now as a soph, he appears to have turned a corner. Getting better every time I see him 6'9" skinny legged jumping jack with a 7" wingspan. Doesn't really have a jumpshot, but dunks everything, rebounds, blocks shots and is a ball of hyperness out there. Goes to the offensive boards hard. Scored 22, 10 rebounds and 4 blocks yesterday to get them into the final four. Will be on CBSSN tonight in first semi. Oh yeah, they shoot 44% as a team from three with one player shooting 48% and he shoots a lot of them. Average 95 points a game. Good team that is fun to watch.
When I saw him early last year as a frosh, I thought he was raw. But, now as a soph, he appears to have turned a corner. Getting better every time I see him 6'9" skinny legged jumping jack with a 7" wingspan. Doesn't really have a jumpshot, but dunks everything, rebounds, blocks shots and is a ball of hyperness out there. Goes to the offensive boards hard. Scored 22, 10 rebounds and 4 blocks yesterday to get them into the final four. Will be on CBSSN tonight in first semi. Oh yeah, they shoot 44% as a team from three with one player shooting 48% and he shoots a lot of them. Average 95 points a game. Good team that is fun to watch.
Bubba Eder
- Northeast Missouri
I sure hope someone shares this information with Groce, it might change everything. GO ILLINI
No, have to sit out a season.
Illini_1979
- Oregon
Not sure where to post this (Dan please feel free to move) but it looks like Calipari is ahead of the curve again (or is at least perceived to be that way).
"Kentucky’s entire basketball team is declaring for the NBA Draft thanks to a loophole in the NCAA's eligibility rules"
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kentucky-entire-basketball-team-declaring-221100665.html
"Kentucky’s entire basketball team is declaring for the NBA Draft thanks to a loophole in the NCAA's eligibility rules"
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kentucky-entire-basketball-team-declaring-221100665.html
Not a loophole at all. The NCAA is just deciding to treat its players professional futures with more respect.
Players are going to start making decisions about their college futures after actually gaining some valuable insight from NBA scouts, rather than making impulsive decisions influenced by all the wrong people.
Cal is going for a bit of razzle-dazzle by having his walk-on's declare, but that's just Cal being Cal.
Forget about this year. What about last year? That team should have made the tournament. but had myriad issues. Outside of gains by Mav, DJ and JCL, where have you seen incremental, Groce-related improvements (forget about W-L) on this years squad? Where have you seen stagnation or regression (in game coaching; weak defense; leadership)?
I would agree the thing that gives me slim hope for an improvement next year is that JCL and Maverick played very well down the stretch, and DJW appears to be a very talented player, a viable 6th man who can rebound, defend and shoot in division 1, and might start by years end. And pur PG situation should improve. That could buy us 4-5 more wins. Having Thorne would also be a huge boost.
However, pair that with the questions about whether Nunn, Black, Tate and Thorne will on the team next year. All of the above, possible positives and negatives are "If's" - nothing is known. Do you see a clear path to progress? Do you have an overall positive vibe?
Much is being made about 17-18 recruits. One thing is nearly certain, we wont have Hill, Nunn, Thorne, Morgan, or Abrams on that squad. That list likely includes 2-4 of our best players next year. Does this coaching team do a good job of quickly assimilating new young talent (JCL probably the best in 4 years), and adjusting offensive and defensive schemes to match new personnel?
I think we are looking at a minimum of 3-4 years to reboot, and I am not convinced that the current regime has the coaching or leadership chops to advance the cause even under the best-case personnel scenarios.
Fair enough. I would still say that most people who cared a lot about Illini hoops 10 years ago, still care, though they may not be at the games or watch as much on TV, because the team sucks, and its a bit depressing to watch.
It's easy for fans to care when you make it to the national championship game. I think those bandwagon fans have unrealistic expectations now thanks to that really good stretch. IMO it's the same people that would boo our own players.. Those "fans" can stay at home forever.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I'm sick of this narrative. Not everyone who has dialed back their interest is some frontrunning meathead. In fact, you'd have to be some kind of masochist NOT to want to look away when something you care deeply about has turned into embarrassing garbage.
Really? Do you not realize the importance of competent PG play in college basketball? It's easily the most important position, and we were miserable there both last year and this year.
The most worrisome thing is that next year, we may not be much better. I'm hoping (but not necessarily expecting) that Tracy comes back strong and/or that Lucas can make an early impact. Certainly not counting on Tate making a big jump.
I think that fans who feel they "deserve" a certain number of wins, or a sweet 16 or whatever are out to lunch. I dont like that attitude, we are not owed anything. And obviously there are maybe 3 or 4 college hoops teams whose fans could reasonably expect a final four in any given year, and we have never been one of those teams, not when Self was here, and certainly not in 2005-06 or beyond.
I think its absolute baloney though, and pretty insulting, to suggest that the fans we are talking about who have diminished interest right now and are disappointed are 2005 bandwagoners. I have been watching Illinois basketball since before Eddie Jordan beat MSU from the baseline. Putting Groce aside for a moment, the past 3 years of Illini hoops is objectively as bad or worse than any 3-year period in the past 30 years. I am telling you that while I love to make time to watch the games, this year, and last year, for me, it has been more frustration than fun, watching matador defense, terrible shot selection, strange substitution patterns, flat second halves, fifth year transfers being asked to patch recruiting holes, no ability to get stops down the stretch, the list goes on. Was I elated when we beat UAB? Purdue? Iowa? Of course. At halftime when we had a shot at teams like ND, Iowa State, etc? Yes. It is not hard to look at the last 3-4 years of Weber and say mostly the same things. there was some awful basketball there as well. The downwards trend did not start 4 years ago, it started earlier, but Groce was f hired to turn the boat, and I dont see a lot of up-pointing arrows right now, not the ones I saw after we almost beat Miami in the tournament, and it makes it a l less fun, for me, to watch, game after game, year after year. but that does not make me a bandwagoner.
Who failed to recruit a PG? Could we play decent defense with a PG who isnt a great distributor? Could a junior or senior PG who isnt all world still be a team leader? And are the arrows pointing sharply up next year at this position? Abrams will at least provide leadership and play defense, but you basically answered my last question. We may not be much better.
Last edited:
It's normal to lose some interest. I'm talking about the small percentage of fans that are insanely unrealistic and aren't satisfied unless we're doing well in the tourney, and the fans that show up at the games and openly talk trash the coach and players throughout the entire game. The fans that don't show their faces unless Illinois loses, but never say anything positive when they win.
Okay, we agree that those fans blow chunks. But being dissatisfied with the program does not mean you are one of those blowhards.
I think the only expectation is to make the NCAA tournament on a regular basis.... Which hasn't happened now in 3 consecutive years...
Not at all. I completely understand the fans that are disappointed and even the fans that want to get rid of Groce this year. I just had some bad experiences at games this year with fans like I've mentioned(especially at the braggin rights game), I apologize if I made it seem like you were one of them. Those fans popped up in more frequent numbers after the 04-05 run which is why I said that.
ChiCityHoops34
- DeKalb IL
Is expecting a coach in his fourth year at a program like Illinis to have regular NCAA tournament appearances and managing to finish above Northwestern, Penn State, and Nebraska in conference unrealistic expectations?
Nope, as I said in the earlier post, I completely understand fans wanting a new coach.
- Status