Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (April-June 2016)

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#2,176      
You may as well stop getting worked up about CM. He's not going to commit somewhere without a guaranteed scholarship, and there's no way Groce kicks a senior off the team to clear space for him. The longer the NCAA drags their feet about Thorne and Abrams, and the longer there are legal uncertainties surrounding Tate and Nunn, the smaller and smaller the window gets with regards to any chance of CM jumping on board. May have cost us Holden too. It sucks, but that's the situation we are in.

Ask yourself this, would you commit to a school this late in the process if they didn't know if they had a scholarship and may not know for another month, when there are other schools dangling guaranteed scholarships in your face?

Groce has known the answer on Nunn and Tate from the first week those incidents happened. There is no question on Abrams. Thorne is the only question mark, and if that is the scholarship for Moore, I agree with you, but given our desperate need for a big if Thorne can't come back, I would be a little surprised if that was the scholly Groce has in mind.

If we are really serious in the Moore chase (and I don't know whether that's the case or not), one or both of Nunn and Tate is already set to be kicked off the team.
 
#2,177      
You may as well stop getting worked up about CM. He's not going to commit somewhere without a guaranteed scholarship, and there's no way Groce kicks a senior off the team to clear space for him. The longer the NCAA drags their feet about Thorne and Abrams, and the longer there are legal uncertainties surrounding Tate and Nunn, the smaller and smaller the window gets with regards to any chance of CM jumping on board. May have cost us Holden too. It sucks, but that's the situation we are in.

Ask yourself this, would you commit to a school this late in the process if they didn't know if they had a scholarship and may not know for another month, when there are other schools dangling guaranteed scholarships in your face?

Moore not committing to the Illini has nothing to do with him not having a guaranteed scholarship.
 
#2,178      

kuhl84

Orlando, FL
Moore not committing to the Illini has nothing to do with him not having a guaranteed scholarship.

Absolutely right.

Scholarships are renewed annually. There are at least 4 rides available right now (TA, MT, Nunn, Tate). There is no way Nunn or Tate have had there scholarships renewed, since they are currently not part of the team.

If CM has an offer, Groce will accept a commitment.

MT and TA are separate issues and JG probably has their rides reserved until a decision is received from NCAA.
 
#2,179      

Deleted member 10676

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#2,180      

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Absolutely right.

Scholarships are renewed annually. There are at least 4 rides available right now (TA, MT, Nunn, Tate). There is no way Nunn or Tate have had there scholarships renewed, since they are currently not part of the team.

If CM has an offer, Groce will accept a commitment.

MT and TA are separate issues and JG probably has their rides reserved until a decision is received from NCAA.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rantees-four-year-scholarships-for-all-sports

According to this and what I've read elsewhere, our rides are 4 years guaranteed. And knowing Groce and how he feels about Tate, there is no way he's pulling JT's if he thinks he's innocent and unless six people perjured themselves, he most likely is.
Nunn, I'm not sure about, but Groce still is not going to pull it before the court makes a ruling. It may be to a fault, but one thing JG appears to be is very loyal to his kids.
 
#2,181      
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rantees-four-year-scholarships-for-all-sports

According to this and what I've read elsewhere, our rides are 4 years guaranteed. And knowing Groce and how he feels about Tate, there is no way he's pulling JT's if he thinks he's innocent and unless six people perjured themselves, he most likely is.
Nunn, I'm not sure about, but Groce still is not going to pull it before the court makes a ruling. It may be to a fault, but one thing JG appears to be is very loyal to his kids.

On a deeper level, If you're Moore, would you really want to commit to a coach that was willing to cut bait on a player before the legal process had taken its course? Not a great look while selling to players that this is a "family".
 
#2,182      

Deleted member 10676

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I missed the early round games this morning. Did anyone see the Meanstreets game? Verge only played 4 minutes and I'm wondering if he got hurt.
Fire won by 10 against Houston Hoops and if nothing else, Storm Murphy's offer list should get a lot bigger and better. Only 5'9 - maybe - but he's a good little pg and so far his only offers are Bemidji State, Lindenwood and Michigan Tech.
 
#2,183      
On a deeper level, If you're Moore, would you really want to commit to a coach that was willing to cut bait on a player before the legal process had taken its course? Not a great look while selling to players that this is a "family".

Well after all he had previously committed to Josh Pastner.:)
 
#2,184      
On a deeper level, If you're Moore, would you really want to commit to a coach that was willing to cut bait on a player before the legal process had taken its course? Not a great look while selling to players that this is a "family".

Groce already cut bait with Cosby, Paul and others (for different reasons) throughout his career without letting the legal process take its course. He was also ready to oversign by not one but two players (Snider, Cliff) without having available scholarships. And we let many scholarship players go from the team and transfer (too many to list) to make space for other players.

If a coach tells you that you have no future with the team (for whatever reason), you transfer somewhere else. There is no player who will stay on a team when the coach tells them they will not to be counted on. Not only by Groce, but any coach.

I don't expect Moore to end up at Illinois, although he would be an absolute home run at this point if it were to happen. But it has nothing to do with scholarships.
 
#2,185      

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#2,187      

CAHALL15

Central Illinois
Groce already cut bait with Cosby, Paul and others (for different reasons) throughout his career without letting the legal process take its course. He was also ready to oversign by not one but two players (Snider, Cliff) without having available scholarships. And we let many scholarship players go from the team and transfer (too many to list) to make space for other players.

If a coach tells you that you have no future with the team (for whatever reason), you transfer somewhere else. There is no player who will stay on a team when the coach tells them they will not to be counted on. Not only by Groce, but any coach.

I don't expect Moore to end up at Illinois, although he would be an absolute home run at this point if it were to happen. But it has nothing to do with scholarships.
Don't you think Cosby and Paul are different situations? Groce flat out said that Cosby needed to do some things to show he was committed to the team. Cosby didn't so that sounds like a mutual parting as it sounds like Cosby wasn't happy with his role on the team anyway. As for Paul, he admitted to drinking and vandalizing cars in France which is completely different from Tate and Nunn maintaining their innocence. There really isn't a need for the legal process if you already admit to your wrongdoings.
 
#2,188      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
Groce already cut bait with Cosby, Paul and others (for different reasons) throughout his career without letting the legal process take its course. He was also ready to oversign by not one but two players (Snider, Cliff) without having available scholarships. And we let many scholarship players go from the team and transfer (too many to list) to make space for other players.

If a coach tells you that you have no future with the team (for whatever reason), you transfer somewhere else. There is no player who will stay on a team when the coach tells them they will not to be counted on. Not only by Groce, but any coach.

I don't expect Moore to end up at Illinois, although he would be an absolute home run at this point if it were to happen. But it has nothing to do with scholarships.

WRT oversigning, every D1 coach would oversign for a Top 5 player. And facing a dire need at PG, every coach would oversign for a Top 30 PG. Yes, Groce was willing to oversign for Alexander and Snider. No brainer. Doesn't mean he's willing to oversign for anyone.
 
#2,189      

Deleted member 10676

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Groce already cut bait with Cosby, Paul and others (for different reasons) throughout his career without letting the legal process take its course. He was also ready to oversign by not one but two players (Snider, Cliff) without having available scholarships. And we let many scholarship players go from the team and transfer (too many to list) to make space for other players.

If a coach tells you that you have no future with the team (for whatever reason), you transfer somewhere else. There is no player who will stay on a team when the coach tells them they will not to be counted on. Not only by Groce, but any coach.

I don't expect Moore to end up at Illinois, although he would be an absolute home run at this point if it were to happen. But it has nothing to do with scholarships.

Apples and oranges all over the place here. Cosby as just mentioned by Cahall wanted off the team as much as Groce wanted him off. Paul was on his third or fourth chance and admitted to being drunk and trashing a car. Tate and Nunn are both claiming innocence. Oversigning in the fall before the season starts is different from oversigning in the spring after Groce already said he wanted all the players back, but suspecting a couple might not be. (I don't think he would have gone after Moore if he didn't think there was a chance Nunn and/or Thorne wouldn't be back. And thought he'd know that by now. )

That said, I agree with your last statement. Love to have him, but lots of reasons for CM to pick LSU or SMU over us. But even if he wanted to sign with us right now, JG would have to kick one of his 2 original recruits off the team before the court decides on them, and I dont think he'd do that, even if it means getting Charlie Moore.
Bad timing/fate -- whatever.

And why did we start blowing off Kezo when he was going through his problems this year? Fouling our nest again.
 
#2,191      

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#2,192      
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rantees-four-year-scholarships-for-all-sports

According to this and what I've read elsewhere, our rides are 4 years guaranteed. And knowing Groce and how he feels about Tate, there is no way he's pulling JT's if he thinks he's innocent and unless six people perjured themselves, he most likely is.
Nunn, I'm not sure about, but Groce still is not going to pull it before the court makes a ruling. It may be to a fault, but one thing JG appears to be is very loyal to his kids.

I understood those six statements only covered the period up to the time the woman left the party. Their statements that she was unharmed when she left is somewhat confirmed by security camera footage of her leaving. Furthermore, I can't believe the prosecutor would proceed to trial if JT has a rock solid alibi covering every minute the alleged attack could have possibly occurred. I'd think that there has to be a gap in the timeline somewhere.

That article is pretty intersting... thanks for posting. Article was dated 12/2014 and said the policy was effective immediately and included current athletes on scholarship. AC transferred after that date so there must be other ways to get rid of players other than pulling the scholarship.

Could a player be forced off the team, but choose to continue his/her education at the institution and still take up a scholarship?
 
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#2,193      
Don't you think Cosby and Paul are different situations? Groce flat out said that Cosby needed to do some things to show he was committed to the team. Cosby didn't so that sounds like a mutual parting as it sounds like Cosby wasn't happy with his role on the team anyway. As for Paul, he admitted to drinking and vandalizing cars in France which is completely different from Tate and Nunn maintaining their innocence. There really isn't a need for the legal process if you already admit to your wrongdoings.

You need to re-read what I wrote, and what I responded to. The point was made that Groce "will not cut bait on a player before the legal process had taken its course." That statement is absolutely not true. Groce has done that many times in his career (for different reasons, as stated in my post), has absolutely not afraid to oversign by multiple scholarships, and has made space though transfers on multiple occasions as well. That has not changed for Moore.

So while all cases are different, there is absolutely no record that Paul legally admitted vandalizing cars. Paul did not go to court in France. But even in his first arrest, Paul was forced out (for good reasons) even without admitting wrongdoing. His family actually disputed the drug charge and the resisting arrest charge (both charges eventually dropped). That did not stop Groce/UI from kicking him out, irrespective of the fact that Groce re-recruited Paul to UI (in retrospect a mistake). Cosby was forced off the team for violation of team rules, not for pleading guilty to any legal charges. It is not that Cosby was a model citizen, neither was Paul (two failed drug tests but no legal convictions), neither was Nunn (arrests for driving under suspended license), neither is Black (pleaded guilty to lesser charge and allowed on diversion program). So the point is that, NO you do not need a legal conviction to dismiss a player or force him off, but even with a legal plea deal the coach may still elect to still let a player back on the team. Legal court ruling is one aspect, one of many.

Scholarships are not an issue with Moore as with most players you want. Pretty good sources on this one that Moore does indeed have a scholarship offer (as already reported) but "don't expect it to happen" although I personally hope that changes. At this point it is not likely, but the holdup is not scholarship availability. TIFWIW.
 
#2,194      
WRT oversigning, every D1 coach would oversign for a Top 5 player. And facing a dire need at PG, every coach would oversign for a Top 30 PG. Yes, Groce was willing to oversign for Alexander and Snider. No brainer. Doesn't mean he's willing to oversign for anyone.

Any coach would oversign for a player they need and want, and Moore is a top 60 PG and current Illinois Mr. Basketball. He is not a savior, but Moore would be an absolute home run at his point. Groce has not signed a top 100 PG in his entire tenure. Moore can definitely help, and Groce knows it. It is not that Groce really made room through multiple transfers either to exclusively sign top-30 or top-5 players. I hope we reach that point, but not the state we are in right now.

Moore's offer is legit, but have good reasons to believe it is not likely at this point. Not for scholarships.
 
#2,196      

Joel Goodson

respect my decision™
That's really disappointing Groce didn't keep up with Kezo. This has Brunson written all over it, in terms of Groce getting back in on him but the harm having already been done.

It is disappointing. But unless Brown goes to Nebraska or DePud, the reason that he didn't chose us because we dropped contact, doesn't hold water.

Brunson was a totally different deal.
 
#2,197      
That's really disappointing Groce didn't keep up with Kezo. This has Brunson written all over it, in terms of Groce getting back in on him but the harm having already been done.

Brunson was leading his team to State as a Sophomore. Kezo barely played. He is no where near the player Brunson was as a sophomore. I don't think he will ever be the player Brunson is, but i guess we will see.
 
#2,198      
It is disappointing. But unless Brown goes to Nebraska or DePud, the reason that he didn't chose us because we dropped contact, doesn't hold water.

Brunson was a totally different deal.

Agreed. I saw Kezo Brown early in his career and really liked his potential, often praised him on this board as one of the key recruits in Illinois. I liked his potential a lot more than Gilyard (not a big fan).

But it is not that Groce and other college coaches dropped interest, it is more that Kezo himself dropped out of the basketball scene. I have heard some positive reviews based on his AAU performance this season (have not seen him yet) so if he keeps his head straight and continues to play well, I'd imagine many more schools will get involved. Brunson, on the other hand, had a pretty steady career in HS, no ups and downs, so I don't see the comparison either.
 
#2,199      

Deleted member 380722

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Kezo Brown doesn't even have a rivals page and 24/7, who is the best at updating, has Illinois and DePaul as his only offers...

Sorry, just DePaul
 
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