Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (July-August 2016)

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#127      
BananaShampoo
I've said it from the beginning, but I want Goodwin so bad. I still think he's the key to this class, and even more important than Tilmon long-term.
 
#129      
Joel Goodson
It's a bit over the top, but am considering building a Goodwin statue in my backyard.
 
#133      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
zpfled said:
It seemed to me that you (and the other poster) were basing the conversation around finding NBA talent hidden in 3-star recruits...which I referred to as a strawman because the original discussion here was about whether or not we should be interested in Frazier because of his weak offer list, and it doesn't matter if he's an NBA talent buried in a 3-star prospect, it just matters if he is a good college player.

Sorry if I misunderstood your point.

My overall point is that a weak offer list is no big deal for a kid who missed some spring AAU ball. If his offer list sucks after this month, then we should be more concerned.
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I could have been more clear, I guess. I don't really care if it's NBA level talent or just a good college player, my point was meant to be more general - it's very difficult to find the kids that over-achieve their rankings before it happens.
 
#134      
Obelix
zpfled said:
That's only true after they've been properly evaluated, though. Most coaches do that during July, although kids in big markets are a lot less likely to fly under the radar.

It's not so hard for a couple coaches to hear about a kid and evaluate him before everyone else. If that kid really comes into his own as a HS junior, then he won't blow up, recruiting-wise, until April or July before his senior year. If he misses AAU ball, his recruitment will probably never blow up.
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Sure, but you go overboard with your argument wrt Frazier saying "it is very reasonable to believe that a great prospect has flown under the radar." Unless you have personally seen Frazier multiple times, you are solely basing your argument on the fact that Illinois is his best offer. That's not much.

More exposure helps rankings, but is not that players live in isolated islands where nobody has ever seen them play. College coaches (and pro scouts/coaches) will find you even if you are an international player, playing in lower league club teams abroad.
 
#135      
Deleted member 10676
[FONT=&quot]Derek Piper ‏@DPiperScout 2h2 hours ago [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Did top-flight Peoria Manual freshman PG Adam Miller like his #Illini visit last month? Wearing an Illinois hoops t-shirt in warmups.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Piper is at Peach Jam today. The above is from watching PJ Invitational game this morning involving Mac Irvin Fire 15u. 17u tourney resumes at 10 - in 5 minutes by my computer clock.
[/FONT]
http://www.d1circuit.com/2016peachjamschedule
http://www.nikeeyb.com/live-stream/
 
#136      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
zpfled said:
That's only true after they've been properly evaluated, though.
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No idea what "properly evaluated" means and I disagree with the qualifier about when this can happen. We're talking about the non-elite talents here. Anyone can identify the Jabari Parkers and Gary Harris type talents. Picking between the Jaylon Tates and Damian Lilliards is the challenge.

Most coaches do that during July, although kids in big markets are a lot less likely to fly under the radar.

It's not so hard for a couple coaches to hear about a kid and evaluate him before everyone else. If that kid really comes into his own as a HS junior, then he won't blow up, recruiting-wise, until April or July before his senior year. If he misses AAU ball, his recruitment will probably never blow up.
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You seem to be focused on a very specific situation, again my comment was more general. I'm not talking about where a kid is ranked as a soph vs junior or March vs August. Again, pointing out exceptions doesn't mean much as each case is unique.
 
#138      
Obelix
On a related point, people often judge players based on success in college or pros thinking that the same players were 5* players back in HS, and college coaches just missed on them. While there have been some cases in the past (e.g., Duncan) where based on location it was hard to evaluate them, the way basketball recruiting works now, if you are a true 5* HS player in a small town, chances are that college coaches will find you.

Most of the missed cases are players who were not truly 5* players in HS but matured basketball-wise in college. I doubt Lilliard was that good in HS and everyone just missed on him. Most likely, he came into his own basketball-wise in college. At the same time, some 5* players never make that "jump" in college and other players catch up on them. I remember Richard McBride very early in HS. He really looked much more physically and mentally mature than his competition, a can't miss prospect. By his senior year, it was evident that other players had caught up on him.

There will always be exceptions both ways, but chances that you succeed with higher ranked talent are much, much better. While some coaches are better than others as far as projecting talent, it is almost impossible to consistently find those diamonds in the rough, i.e., the players who will make that "jump" later in their career in college.
 
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#139      
FatGreg
I'm watching Theo John now. Fundamentally sound post defender, great length and body. Just had one of the most brutal post possessions I've ever seen offensively, though: slowly dribbled 4-5 times backing down, attempted an awkward slow-motion move toward his right shoulder, then got stuck on his pivot foot and held the ball literally in front of his chest until it was stolen like candy from a baby.

Also, defensively and as a rebounder he seems athletic, but lacks anticipation and feel for the game. Great physical tools - would definitely take him. I wouldn't expect him to contribute as more than a nice defensive sub his first two years, though.
 
#141      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Obelix said:
Most of the missed cases are players who were not truly 5* players in HS but matured basketball-wise in college. I doubt Lilliard was that good in HS and everyone just missed on him. Most likely, he came into his own basketball-wise in college. At the same time, some 5* players never make that "jump" in college and other players catch up on them. I remember Richard McBride very early in HS. He really looked much more physically and mentally matured than his competition, a can't miss prospect. By his senior year, it was evident that other players had caught up on him.

There will always be exceptions both ways, but chances that you succeed with higher ranked talent are much, much better. While some coaches are better than others as far as projecting talent, it is almost impossible to consistently find those diamonds in the rough, i.e., the players who will make that "jump" later in their career in college.
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Agreed, the recruiting and talent evaluation is only part of the equation. Player development and physical maturity play a huge part as well. And given that these kids are typically still growing and maturing rapidly, it's even more difficult to predict their futures. A coach like Bo Ryan looks like a genius finding lower rated recruits, but how much of that is talent evaluation vs player development? Hard to say for certain.
 
#142      
Joel Goodson
FatGreg said:
I'm watching Theo John now. Fundamentally sound post defender, great length and body. Just had one of the most brutal post possessions I've ever seen offensively, though: slowly dribbled 4-5 times backing down, attempted an awkward slow-motion move toward his right shoulder, then got stuck on his pivot foot and held the ball literally in front of his chest until it was stolen like candy from a baby.

Also, defensively and as a rebounder he seems athletic, but lacks anticipation and feel for the game. Great physical tools - would definitely take him. I wouldn't expect him to contribute as more than a nice defensive sub his first two years, though.
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Yeah, definitely not going to be a big offensive threat. But that's ok. Great size, frame for a power forward. Hope we land him.
 
#143      
RockfordIllini
With regard to "missing" on non-5 star players who go onto the pros, it is so hard to predict who will level off and who will keep getting better.

For instance, as HS seniors, who would have predicted that between Bracey Wright and Deron that Deron would go on to make an NBA all star team? So much can change between 18 and 22.
 
#146      
FatGreg
More on Theo John:

Positives: quick leaper; above average B1G athlete; very good motor - runs the floor hard, dives for loose balls; fundamentally sound defender - doesn't leave his feet, maintains good position, boxes out well as a rebounder, good timing on helpside blocks

Negatives: raw offensively; poor hands - has bobbled multiple passes and rebounds; doesn't attack the glass - more of a box out and wait rebounder (i.e. may not grab a ton of boards - more of the kind of player who will keep his opponent off the glass and clear space for teammates to swoop in); doesn't show great basketball instincts (though I've been surprised by his helpside rotations a few times - he seems to have excellent awareness in that particular realm)

Not the same kind of player--more of a PF than a C at only 6'8--but honestly has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses as Nnanna.
 
#147      
Mojoman
So does anyone know what Trent Frazier is doing this month as he is a primary target for staff?
 
#149      
FatGreg
Howard Pulley defeats King James 85-80. Theo John with 4 points, 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1 assist in 18 minutes.
 
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