Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2016)

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#476      

LurkLongandProsper

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LurkLongandProsper
I don't really understand how Groce is magically again safe regardless of postseason status this year. If he misses the tournament with in Year 5 with only his players on the roster (save Abrams, who should've graduated), in a (mostly) injury free season, I don't see how we can make an argument that the program is headed in a positive direction. But that's just me, and I believe in on-court results, not just recruiting. Maybe I'm in the wrong thread :confused:

All that said, I would be surprised if Wilkes winds up here, and will +1 the requests for info on the Kiir visit. Anyone got anything?
 
#478      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Illinijose said:
"History and percentages do not lie" please show us the numbers professor. I can tell you right now you've made conclusions that can't be supported by numbers or history.
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There are multiple recruits that fit that profile, even if you just look at the Groce era alone. But it is not just Illini recruits, the same is true for other schools. Quite a few times we ended up on the winning side. Some of the Illini recruits who stopped taking visits and announced for the last visited (does not have to be official) school: Kendrick Nunn, Leron Black, Doral Moore, Jalen Brunson, Jawun Evans, Jimmy Whitt, Trent Frazier, Landry Shamet, etc.

I am pretty sure there are many more, and that is just on top of my head in the last few years. It is very common in recruiting, you stop taking planned visits, look at where the ball stops. I am not including cases like Elijah Thomas, where he took all planned visits. In those case, as I have said in earlier posts, the last visit is an advantage but a slight one. There are probably some unusual recruitments that would indeed fall into the extremely rare case that the pattern may not apply, but you would be hard pressed to find many examples. Hopefully, Wilkes ends up one of them, but hard to like our chances right now. If he does, it will not mean that the chances of winning the next one would become better either (thus the lottery example).
 
#479      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
LurkLongandProsper said:
I don't really understand how Groce is magically again safe regardless of postseason status this year.
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I do not believe many have said "regardless of post season status." But if the Illini miss the tournament but make the NIT, I believe there are good chances he survives. If it is a disaster, it would be very difficult for him.

But with respect to recruiting, if we indeed end up adding Wilkes to Tilmon, and the rest of the class, it would be very hard indeed to risk making a change.
 
#481      

Cubby Blue

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Cubby Blue
Obelix said:
On Patterson, because Crean is one of the least favorite coaches here, you can say that he he just forced the kid because he oversigned, for "no reason", but there was a reason highly reported, that the classes Patterson took were mandated by IU as part of their equivalent of the "bridge" program. There are multiple reports that mentioned "academic" performance issues on those courses.

You can say that Groce would not do it, but he was indeed ready to oversign. There is no denying that. He could indeed count. Now, the fact we were left at the altar, is not because of Groce's unwillingness to do so. Obviously, there is a very clear possibility here that Crean does know that some player players will indeed leave early, so when it comes to Wilkes, it is not a case (yet) that the oversigning will have any effect.
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You always speak in absolutes. I call BS. Patterson and his family were very pissed about the way they were treated. If the "bridge" classes were the problem, they would have admitted as much. As it was, they were shoved out the door with a boot in the butt. Don't try and mitigate it like the average hoosier. It makes you look bad. ;) Crean screwed Ron Patterson. The world knows. :thumb:
 
#482      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Cubby Blue said:
You always speak in absolutes. I call BS. Patterson and his family were very pissed about the way they were treated. If the "bridge" classes were the problem, they would have admitted as much. As it was, they were shoved out the door with a boot in the butt. Don't try and mitigate it like the average hoosier. It makes you look bad. ;) Crean screwed Ron Patterson. The world knows. :thumb:
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Speaking in absolutes is to say that you ignore the other side and claim what you just want to say is correct without what has been published. It is not only BS, but hypocritical BS. Apparently, his own AAU coach and major advisor during the recruiting process, did not get your memo either, as he also supported the academic story.

The recruit will transfer after failing to meet the school's academic requirements.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...diana-hoosiers-recruit-ron-patterson-transfer
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Patterson's former AAU coach, Chris Hawkins, said the 6-3 guard had cleared all of the academic hurdles to enroll at Indiana, but did not meet all of the academic standards in summer school.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...erson-not-attend-indiana-academics/57074936/1
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#484      

Cubby Blue

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Cubby Blue
Obelix said:
Speaking in absolutes is to say that you ignore the other side and claim what you just want to say is correct without what has been published. It is not only BS, but hypocritical BS. Apparently, his own AAU coach and major advisor during the recruiting process, did not get your memo either, as he also supported the academic story.
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I can use quotes too.

former Indiana University recruit Ron Patterson has accepted a scholarship offer from SU. Patterson had originally signed with the Hoosiers, and had gone so far as to enroll in summer school there, but his scholarship was rescinded

http://www.nunesmagician.com/2012/11/4/3597518/former-indiana-recruit-ron-patterson-signs-syracuse


Bottom line is his parents don't have one good word to say about Crean. And, it wasn't anything to do with grades, it was because he didn't get "sponsorship".

UPDATE: Some more background. A major issue at play in Patterson’s case is faculty sponsorship. Faculty sponsorship is a program that is available for not only student athletes but any student whose grades and test scores do not necessarily qualify them for “automatic” admission to Indiana, but that have good probabilities of being able to handle the necessary work and might often be able to bring other talents to the university. (I.e. certain music majors might qualify). Faculty members in that case agree to take on these students as a sponsor. Most athletes are on sponsorship, as the standards for regular students are fairly high and students that might be considered better than average in high school might still need sponsorships.

Wonder why he didn't get "sponsorship" I think I know why. :thumb:

Oh, I am not 'ignoring the other side". I have a buddy that knows this case very well. Patterson was not as good as the person that replaced him on the dotted line. Sucks for him.
 
#485      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
dawgville
Joel Goodson
Cubby Blue said:
I can use quotes too.

former Indiana University recruit Ron Patterson has accepted a scholarship offer from SU. Patterson had originally signed with the Hoosiers, and had gone so far as to enroll in summer school there, but his scholarship was rescinded

http://www.nunesmagician.com/2012/11/4/3597518/former-indiana-recruit-ron-patterson-signs-syracuse


Bottom line is his parents don't have one good word to say about Crean. And, it wasn't anything to do with grades, it was because he didn't get "sponsorship".

UPDATE: Some more background. A major issue at play in Patterson’s case is faculty sponsorship. Faculty sponsorship is a program that is available for not only student athletes but any student whose grades and test scores do not necessarily qualify them for “automatic” admission to Indiana, but that have good probabilities of being able to handle the necessary work and might often be able to bring other talents to the university. (I.e. certain music majors might qualify). Faculty members in that case agree to take on these students as a sponsor. Most athletes are on sponsorship, as the standards for regular students are fairly high and students that might be considered better than average in high school might still need sponsorships.

Wonder why he didn't get "sponsorship" I think I know why. :thumb:

Oh, I am not 'ignoring the other side". I have a buddy that knows this case very well. Patterson was not as good as the person that replaced him on the dotted line. Sucks for him.
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Of course, Clappy has a good cover story. Always does. An inconvenient truth.
 
#490      

Connor

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Connor
Information with Kiir and Wilkes

Kiir -- Tilmon on the visit to to try and sell they can play along side each other and be a good frontcourt while they are here together.

Wilkes -- still pushing hard staff and the commits looks to be Us and IU wouldn't be worried about UCLA at all.
 
#491      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Cubby Blue said:
I can use quotes too.

former Indiana University recruit Ron Patterson has accepted a scholarship offer from SU. Patterson had originally signed with the Hoosiers, and had gone so far as to enroll in summer school there, but his scholarship was rescinded

http://www.nunesmagician.com/2012/11/4/3597518/former-indiana-recruit-ron-patterson-signs-syracuse
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Not sure what you're even quoting as supporting facts. The fact that his scholarship was rescinded? Nobody is disputing that. IU is not disputing that they did not rescind his scholarship, but claim it was for academic performance shortcomings in the summer program. His own AAU coach even publicly admitted that. Saying you have a "buddy" in the know is not really much support.

As far as the program, this is pretty much the equivalent of what used to be our "bridge" program. Faculty sponsorship means admission to the program. Patterson was indeed admitted to the program, and he did take summer courses. Neither Patterson nor IU dispute that. It was not that IU dropped the sponsorship before Patterson was admitted to the program, but the performance in those courses that were part of the program. That would be the equivalent of Willie Coleman accusing UI for failing to successfully complete the bridge program.

Crean is no saint for sure, but it is really hypocritical to make statements that Groce would not oversign for Wilkes or that he is the model of loyalty/integrity. He is not. Groce was ready to oversign by two and there was not even a single candidate for the NBA. When players transfer, there is always two sides to the story and not a pleasant situation. When Colbert left it is not that it was a pleasant situation. Neither was when Melton left. Nor when Orris and Mr. Crossover left KSU. Nor when Bielfeldt was forced out (Crean actually picked him up and won B1G 6th MOY). Nor when Albrecht was forced out. I do not like it, but we would do it as well.

As far as Wilkes, IF he goes to IU, it is pretty much a non-issue as far as oversigning. Bryant and OG are pretty much all but gone, and IMO, if Blackmon's health and play are up to par, there are good chances he is gone as well. So us making a big deal on IU oversigning for Wilkes (IF they happen to get him) is really sour grapes.
 
#497      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Joel Goodson said:
+1

Here's hoping we close the deal this week.
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Just to clarify, I have not seen Kiir play yet, but he seems very mobile with good size and skills for his height. The thing that is very evident and encouraging in his recent videos is the difference in his body, he has significantly filled up from the very skinny frame of a year ago. Looks like a complete transformation, which one can expect to continue.
 
#500      

coltjames03

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coltjames03
Lol while Weber might of had higher number class the problem was he couldn't field a team. All he did was sign whoever and really didn't put a complete team together.

Damn Tillmon is doing a lot of recruiting for being a guy who is about to flip to a mid major just to play with his buddy even though he has buddies on the Illini as well lol. Loyalty was a huge part of Tillmon
 
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