Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2016)

[bredhartmann]

Ha ha. I hope that's the reason.



On another note, all is quiet on the Mayan front. When's the last time an official visit was this quiet? No golf cart sightings? No stalkers at OPH? Was it the collective apathy from the deflating football loss?

Saw him at Kams so I can only assume the visit went well.

 

[Joel Goodson]

Of course I'd be happier if he picked Illinois but this would make me pretty happy as well.

+infinity

 

[TCTORNADO]

Of course I'd be happier if he picked Illinois but this would make me pretty happy as well.

Hoosiers missing out on 4 top50 instate recruits and JSmith top75 being your headliner would be devastating.

 

[FishingFool]

Did Mayan visit this weekend?

I was wondering if Mayan came this weekend. Been gone all weekend and just checked Loyalty didn't see a whole lot about him. Sure hope he doesn't check out Loyalty very much for little I have heard about him being here.I think the kid likes attention for what I have read about him. Hey Mayan come play for the Fighting Illini. Love to have you.

 

[Newman]

Ohio State just got a commitment from 3 star pg Braxton Beverly. Many of you probably recognize the name, I believe Illinois checked out the kid a couple of times. Ohio State fans are hoping he'll be Craft 2.0 but he's a poor man's version at best IMO.

 

[LuckyLefty8]

Hi guys....thanks for the direct messages...I do not have anything concrete on Wilkes, his recruitment has been low key. From what I have heard he was unlikely to choose Indiana, though my source thought it was Xavier or UCLA. X now out, so would think UCLA is the leader but this has been air tight.

Apologies for the Goodwin info....that's why I try to avoid sharing! Eyebrows raise when connections are hired or helped out, for what its worth. Follow.....

 

[AwkwardKyle]

Hi guys....thanks for the direct messages...I do not have anything concrete on Wilkes, his recruitment has been low key. From what I have heard he was unlikely to choose Indiana, though my source thought it was Xavier or UCLA. X now out, so would think UCLA is the leader but this has been air tight.

Apologies for the Goodwin info....that's why I try to avoid sharing! Eyebrows raise when connections are hired or helped out, for what its worth. Follow.....

Thank you for the info. Always appreciate you coming here and sharing what you know. I do not think anyone really seen the Goodwin thing coming, so no need to apologize for that. You have obviously proven to be in the know.

 

[troym22]

What we really need to finally see is development of talent. We've all witnessed too many 4 star, top-100 recruits come to Illinois and look like a 2-star recruit. Eventually it has to happen. But, we all have been around long enough to look at the recruits Illinois is targeting, and make a pretty good assessment of how they might fare here, based on comparisons of numerous examples that have played for Illini in the past.

 

[Adnarel]

Poor Lucky... I'm sure he's been flooded with PM's.

Thanks for stopping by and sharing. That jives with the sum of everything else we've heard so far: that it's basically impossible to predict with any certainty.

 

[combes]

What we really need to finally see is development of talent. We've all witnessed too many 4 star, top-100 recruits come to Illinois and look like a 2-star recruit. Eventually it has to happen. But, we all have been around long enough to look at the recruits Illinois is targeting, and make a pretty good assessment of how they might fare here, based on comparisons of numerous examples that have played for Illini in the past.

Hill? Morgan? Finke? We will see about the other sophomores this year.

 

[troym22]

Hill? Morgan? Finke? We will see about the other sophomores this year.

I think Malcolm Hill has been good. He is one of few who has gotten better as he gets older..and if he scores 600 points this season, which isn't that unreasonable, he would be #3 on the Illinois scoring list.

But yes, there is a laundry list of guys we could all mention from the past decade.

 

[Mike]

My 2 Hoosier buddies just texted me and are bummed because they are hearing UCLA.

So how connected are they, and when is KW supposedly announcing?
Anyone else with info?

 

[combes]

I think Malcolm Hill has been good. He is one of few who has gotten better as he gets older..and if he scores 600 points this season, which isn't that unreasonable, he would be #3 on the Illinois scoring list.

But yes, there is a laundry list of guys we could all mention from the past decade.

And a list of those who have developed. This is true at every school. Some players turn out. Some don't.

Do a check of three and four star recruits at other BT schools and you will see that it is very similar. Some turn out. Some don't. Even Bo Ryan had a lot of misses.

 

[CAHALL15]

What we really need to finally see is development of talent. We've all witnessed too many 4 star, top-100 recruits come to Illinois and look like a 2-star recruit. Eventually it has to happen. But, we all have been around long enough to look at the recruits Illinois is targeting, and make a pretty good assessment of how they might fare here, based on comparisons of numerous examples that have played for Illini in the past.

It depends who you're talking about. BP3 and DJ Richardson enjoyed their best seasons under Groce. Egwu certainly did get better defensively or at least finally got some recognition for his play. Rayvonte Rice certainly improved in multiple areas including his shooting to the point where he was a 40% 3pt shooter. Malcolm Hill lead the team last year in ppg, rpg, apg, was 2nd in bpg and spg. Morgan enjoyed his best season last year and looked like a legitimate Big Ten froncourt player. Finke, who was a freshman last year, definitely didn't play like a boderline 3/4 star recruit. So there are numerous examples to point to player development under Groce and I expect we will see the same this year.

 

[Deleted member 79908]

It's IU. I'm not trying to troll or anything, but just wanted to share the info that I know as truth.

 

[Deleted member 79908]

My 2 Hoosier buddies just texted me and are bummed because they are hearing UCLA.

Would love for it to be UCLA over IU, but they are misinformed.

 

[RichBradIllini]

I think Malcolm Hill has been good. He is one of few who has gotten better as he gets older..and if he scores 600 points this season, which isn't that unreasonable, he would be #3 on the Illinois scoring list.

But yes, there is a laundry list of guys we could all mention from the past decade.

There's a difference between player development and players reaching their ceiling. I've seen more of the latter.

 

[BirdDog9048]

There's a difference between player development and players reaching their ceiling. I've seen more of the latter.

I feel like "player development" is the process that leads to "players reaching their ceiling"... Do you have a different concept of the two things...? :noidea:

 

[troym22]

That's a valid way to see it. I can understand that. Some maybe were just overrated to begin with, some had too high of expectations, etc. When I speak of player development I mean coaches having a significant impact on how a player grows. I agree, categorizing it into one broad thing isn't right, very good point. I actually believe that a lot of if may come from expectations that are too high when they were never capable to begin with.

However, I do think there are cases too where players have just regressed and regressed each year. You saw the talent, its there, but either discipline or poor coaching/use contributed on a major scale. I realize other B10 schools see this also, but I believe Illinois has witnessed more

 

[Joel Goodson]

That's a valid way to see it. I can understand that. Some maybe were just overrated to begin with, some had too high of expectations, etc. When I speak of player development I mean coaches having a significant impact on how a player grows. I agree, categorizing it into one broad thing isn't right, very good point. I actually believe that a lot of if may come from expectations that are too high when they were never capable to begin with.

However, I do think there are cases too where players have just regressed and regressed each year. You saw the talent, its there, but either discipline or poor coaching/use contributed on a major scale. I realize other B10 schools see this also, but I believe Illinois has witnessed more

Kudos for acknowledging that player development is a wide ranging topic.

As to your 2nd paragraph, which Illini do you consider to be failures? Beyond the dumpster fire that was Richmond, of course. FWIW, I consider Richmond's failure to have little or nothing to do with player development, but I digress.

 

[combes]

That's a valid way to see it. I can understand that. Some maybe were just overrated to begin with, some had too high of expectations, etc. When I speak of player development I mean coaches having a significant impact on how a player grows. I agree, categorizing it into one broad thing isn't right, very good point. I actually believe that a lot of if may come from expectations that are too high when they were never capable to begin with.

However, I do think there are cases too where players have just regressed and regressed each year. You saw the talent, its there, but either discipline or poor coaching/use contributed on a major scale. I realize other B10 schools see this also, but I believe Illinois has witnessed more

You believe that because you are a fan of Illinois and do not likely follow other rosters as closely.

What players at Illinois have regressed under Groce?

 

[BirdDog9048]

Agree with Joel and combes. I can't think of any players that I would consider to have regressed under Groce. Some players maybe weren't as good or didn't improve as much as we would have hoped, but no one got worse.

 

[Kathy]

Would love for it to be UCLA over IU, but they are misinformed.

Ummmmm, I'm going with Lefty's take on it, and it's opposite of yours.:thumb:

 

[troym22]

Kudos for acknowledging that player development is a wide ranging topic.

As to your 2nd paragraph, which Illini do you consider to be failures? Beyond the dumpster fire that was Richmond, of course. FWIW, I consider Richmond's failure to have little or nothing to do with player development, but I digress.

Oh yeah, Richmond was just a bad idea from the start. No connection to player development there.

I actually wasn't pointing this specifically to Groce. It was overall, and I actually like Groce. Obviously it was more notable under Bruce Weber. I wasn't commenting to say Groce can't develop talent, it was more to say, overall, Illinois needs to see more players get better each year, or at least play more consistently.

 

[Calvin]

I've said since year three of the Groce tenure. That Groce is

Speaker = exceptional
Organization skills = exceptional
Recruiter = exceptional (true salesman)
Talent evaluation = above average
Player development = average at best
X's and O's = below average
In game coach = train wreck

Interesting view.
I don't really care much about the first two, and wouldn’t list them.
The next 2 are REALLY important, and Groce is a great recruiter. I think part of that is that he's a player's coach (more on that). Talent evaluation, I'm not convinced he's all that great simply based on results and how many guys have or are expected to make it to the league. Give him time, though, there’s a long burn on that one.
Development, I’d give him a little more credit because the offseason program seems solid. He puts a premium on gym rats and motor, and I think development reflects that. Skill-wise, I’d call it a mixed bag.

Your last two are basically execution, and I haven’t been impressed lately (I don’t think anyone really has been). The way I’d label it is something you don’t list, which is getting the players really motivated about the game day, with a vision of how they will win. It’s something I think a lot of ‘player’s coaches’ struggle with. Kruger was fantastic with it IMO, Self struggled with it, and Weber was so-so with it. The good news is that coaches that aren’t great with it sometimes find players who are, so it works out on the floor. When that fails, sometimes just getting a lot of talent helps. Groce has passion for the game, I just think he’s struggled to get the most of out his pieces. I’ll be really curious to watch how that goes this season with a stronger roster

I absolutely bleed Orange&Blue. I love U of I beyond description. I want Illinois to succeed tremendously. But I just feel that if he can't take this team to the dance this year he must go. Even with the class he has put together and is still assembling. Even if that means 2017 recruits leaving.

Why delay the inevitable.

There’s a time and a place to play arm-chair AD, and that time will be much later in the season. We’re in it for the season, so let’s let it play out.