Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)
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Audie Matthews (Bartow & Yates recruit 1974) was MCDAA caliber. Eddie Johnson (Henson & Yates 1977) was more like top 50. Levi Cobb (Henson & Yates 1976) was probably 50-ish too. Derek Holcomb from Peoria Richwoods was probably close to top in 1977, but he initially went to IU and transferred to UI.
In 1978, Eddie Johnson's former teammate and McDonald's AA Mark Aguirre went to DePaul. In 1979. Isiah Thomas to IU. Teddy Grubbs to DePud. Both were McDonald's AA. Cummings was not a McDonald's AA but was a stud and also to DePaul. Bontemps and Richardson were class of 1979. 1980, Rivers to Marquette.
Our first actual McDonald's AA was Derek Harper from Florida in 1980. We added Bruce Douglas and Efrem Winters in 1982. Nick Anderson in 1986, Marcus Liberty in 1987, Deon Thomas in 1989. We signed Jamie Brandon for 1990, but he dropped out of summer school. More: Richard Keene, Marcus Griffin. Brian Cook, Frank Williams, Dee Brown, Jereme Richmond.
Captain Bubbles
- Fairfield, IL
No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Already addressed yesterday in the same discussion. Winning helps but it is not the main determinant, neither is there a gradual linear progression relationship as you present. We not only won, but we won extremely big in the early years of Weber (with Self's players) yet it was evident that recruiting was taking a downward trend. At the same time, there are multiple examples, as presented by many, of coaches who have landed at new schools and got off to very good recruiting starts without this gradual winning progression. At the end, either you are a very good recruiter, or you are not. JMO.
Exactly. You do not only need good recruiting, but you also need consistency in that good recruiting. Coaching and development definitely helps as it helps you mitigate risk and unexpected events (e.g., injuries, off court issues, etc.) and helps you get the most out of your talent but at that end you need quality options. You also need positional balance, not leaving significant gaps in backcourt or frontcourt (which IMO exist in current roster).
I honestly get tired when people constantly post "Ayo says hello" in response to some of the recruiting concerns. It is not that previous coaches (i.e., Weber, Groce) never got any talent either. You can easily say "Richmond says hello" or "Leonard says hello", or "Nunn says hello", etc. But at the end, we lacked quality depth and positional recruiting balance. There is a gap between the talent level Illinois had in the eras we were consistently good and the rest of our recent basketball history.
Deleted member 643761
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I'd argue Henson was a linear progression up. Id say the same for beilein. I'm guessing I'd find a number more if i took the time
Sorry, after correcting the minor technical errors, I plumb forgot to get to the point. First, we need to distinguish the Metro-East from the rest of the St. Louis area. The former includes not only ESL but also the likes of Belleville, Collinsville, Alton, and Edwardsville. Historically, we have done well there, competing against the field. The same is true of Chicago, with some exceptions.
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Henson elevated the program with recruiting. Times and dynamics were different but much of the elevation was due to the fantastic recruiting and talent brought in by Tony Yates and then Jimmy Collins. That was the impetus. As much as like Henson and appreciate his impact to shaping Illini history, the major knock on Henson (which is the reason many did not vote him in the HOF) had always been that he never got more out of his talent with his coaching.
Beilein is not really a linear progression either. His first 3 years were very mediocre (if not terrible), he started really bad, reached .500 and then bad again (15-17 overall and 7-11) and really hitting it big with Trey Burke and Hardaway, tremendous talent. As I have said many times, talent is not always the same as rankings, but there is high correlation, especially at the high end. So the chances of hitting a Trey Burke are not good, but if we do, more power to us.
As much as dislike Bruce Weber as a coach and personality, I have said it over and over again. Weber is not a bad game coach, actually a pretty good one. He won extremely big with talent and Self's recruits. It is not that Weber woke up one day and forgot how to coach. Just that the talent got depleted, despite winning.
Good recruiting is a necessary but not sufficient condition. But we have not addressed the "necessary" part since Self left, let alone progress to sufficiency. I think BU is a very good coach and like his style a lot. But whether he succeeds at UI long term will be highly dependent on making a recruiting turnaround asap. JMO.
DudeIllini
- Malibu
How many ways are we going to argue that we need coaches to coach, recruit, and develop talent at a high level? Obviously all those things are important and we would be very successful if we had all three.
BU has two years as a high major coach under his belt. He can’t prove a track record of developing talent, recruiting, or coaching at a high major. Our only chance is to give him time to prove that he can be the long term answer at HC, and he will be gone in a couple years if he can’t.
BU has two years as a high major coach under his belt. He can’t prove a track record of developing talent, recruiting, or coaching at a high major. Our only chance is to give him time to prove that he can be the long term answer at HC, and he will be gone in a couple years if he can’t.
I have not seen any posts arguing that we should fire BU, so not sure of the argument here. We will discuss recruiting, performance and everything in between during his tenure, but I do not buy the argument that we should only review/critique BU in the context of firing him or making a change. Even if it reaches that point in the future, reality is that UI will not make a change until after year 5.
Rival's take on Illinois recruiting and chances with Walker, Shannon, Oscar T, and Guerrier.
Personally, I think going into Spring with multiple scholarships open and missing on Fall recruiting again for the second straight year is not a recipe for success, so hopefully their prediction does not materialize.
Personally, I think going into Spring with multiple scholarships open and missing on Fall recruiting again for the second straight year is not a recipe for success, so hopefully their prediction does not materialize.
IllFanInMi
I
Guest
The beauty of this site is the variety of opinions on recruiting, winning, facilities, coaching, development, etc... Arguments can be made in many ways and I for one enjoy the differing opinions and passion.
My hope for signing and frustration of not hitting on our major targets is due to the state of where the program is compared to where it was in 89 and 05 and for periods in between.
Long time Illini fans who can relive those amazing teams probably have an unrealistic bar that we are holding the program to now.
We are tired from the last 10 years and when we are right there with big time recruits it feels like we can quickly jump right back to the success of yesteryear. When we miss, it feels like more pain and waiting and have no desire to hurry up and wait. We feel we can and should be back at a very high level.
It is what is with recruiting right now. I just hope we have (and I believe we do) the talent and coaching to make a big jump this year, which will show with W’s that will lead to immediate recruiting results. Sure, the fear of another down year, no post season, and recruiting frustration is REAL, but making a jump this year is possible.
Let’s all hope and root like heck to help it happen!
My hope for signing and frustration of not hitting on our major targets is due to the state of where the program is compared to where it was in 89 and 05 and for periods in between.
Long time Illini fans who can relive those amazing teams probably have an unrealistic bar that we are holding the program to now.
We are tired from the last 10 years and when we are right there with big time recruits it feels like we can quickly jump right back to the success of yesteryear. When we miss, it feels like more pain and waiting and have no desire to hurry up and wait. We feel we can and should be back at a very high level.
It is what is with recruiting right now. I just hope we have (and I believe we do) the talent and coaching to make a big jump this year, which will show with W’s that will lead to immediate recruiting results. Sure, the fear of another down year, no post season, and recruiting frustration is REAL, but making a jump this year is possible.
Let’s all hope and root like heck to help it happen!
201154JC
- Rockford, IL
Morning fellow Illini fans. I'm feeling pretty positive about Quincy Guerrier. I discovered this morning he actually did put us
in his final three. It seems clear he likes the up and down the floor style of play which bodes well for us. And, the fact that he
may be eligible to play after the first of the year is a huge plus. I like our chances here. Let's hope he has a great visit.
in his final three. It seems clear he likes the up and down the floor style of play which bodes well for us. And, the fact that he
may be eligible to play after the first of the year is a huge plus. I like our chances here. Let's hope he has a great visit.
Syracuse will be hard to beat.
201154JC
- Rockford, IL
We beat them in 1989 and hopefully we will beat them out in 2018.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
Cuse certainly has us beat on proximity and recent success, but style of play is a big differentiator. Hope that really is a factor for him and he comes in with an open mind.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
+1
Guerrier's path to the League is clearer with us than either of his other finalists. Hope he makes the right choice.
[dream mode] Guerrier's hardly a prototypical PF, but he'd really help assuage the Liddell miss. A Jones, Guerrier forward tandem would give teams fits.
And that we have an open spot for him right away to play, does Syracuse?
JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
- Chicago
Sounds awfully similar to "my problems would all go away if I could just hit the lottery."
We might be in a pretty bad place right now as a fanbase.
Deleted member 11311
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Agree. From what I've heard from peers out East is shock he hasn't committed to 'Cuse yet. All but a done deal. Gonna take a miracle.
Sounds like an intelligent, carefully considered use of one of our OV's
201154JC
- Rockford, IL
Syracuse does still have an open scholarship for this year. I still say, if style of play is his key, he'll be playing at the SFC.
https://www.nunesmagician.com/2018/...uincy-guerrier-includes-orange-in-final-three
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Strongly disagree.
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