This seems to me to be incredibly obvious. I cannot even understand the argument that the other way around works. If winning creates recruiting, then you don't need recruiting because you are already winning.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)
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This seems to me to be incredibly obvious. I cannot even understand the argument that the other way around works. If winning creates recruiting, then you don't need recruiting because you are already winning.
BirdDog9048
The Chief Lives
- Chicago, IL
Well that shouldn't be too difficult...
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He wont pull his name out of the draft in 2019.
BirdDog9048
The Chief Lives
- Chicago, IL
Winning definitely creates recruiting. It's how the blue bloods remain blue bloods. They win because they recruit well, and they recruit well because they win.
It's a perfect chicken and egg metaphor though. People are arguing over which one is the egg.
One exception to a pretty sound rule. Bruce Weber. Unfortunately, he was the Illini coach when the exception to the rule happened.
Deleted member 11311
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This is true. Hope there is some sort of domino effect for the programs mentioned in the case.
De La Rosa is out of eligibility whether he plays this year or not. He isn’t eligible for a waiver.
Like the assistant coach who we tried to hire and has been working with Underwood for a decade? Or the prominent program whose lead connections guy got his start in the business here?
We are uncomfortably close to this whole thing, to the extent it starts stretching out from the people already named.
Pitino jokes never get old.
Yeah having this NCAA scandal thing end sooner rather than later is the move we should be hoping for (well that is if you are hoping for this not to touch our program). Not saying I have any info, just seems like we are as close to the fringe to this as possible, without actually being named/involved.
In case people aren't aware, some of the actions charged were by Lamont Evans while he was an assistant coach for Brad Underwood at Oklahoma State, involving Underwood's players and recruits. Has Oklahoma State hired someone else, Lamont Evans would have been an Illini assistant coach at the time he was arrested. It's right at our doorstep.
It is not a chicken and egg metaphor, actually already discussed yesterday. The premise of "win, win, win" and the recruiting will come is simply false. If you can "win, win, win" (i.e., win consistently) then you have already solved your problem without recruiting. What you are talking about is the second level effect and comes much after the original level of winning has been already created via consistent recruiting where the reputation of being a "blue blood" gives those schools the extra boost to consistently stay in NC contention with multiple top recruits, a totally different level.
We are so far from reaching that level to begin with that is not even worth mentioning, and the chances we become a blue blood without recruiting are not slim to none, they are none. Even if we successfully recruit and become a consistent winner it will take decades of reinforcing that cycle to become a blue blood, which is pretty much almost impossible.
For our assistance's sake, I sure hope not.
But seriously, 247 lists Antigua as the primary recruiter, which makes sense.
I was a bartender at a Purdue Hotel that opposing teams would often stay at. I'll say this: there are Huggy stories.
sacraig
- The desert
I disagree. I am not using this information to suggest that recruiting is fine and should focus on coaching deficiencies. My point is that it has all been a problem and we need to fix all of it, though not necessarily (but preferably) all at once.
Further, the idea of eliminating risk is comical. You can reduce it, but you can never eliminate it. At some level, you need a larger number of quality recruits to help outweigh the percentage that will inevitably not pan out. You can reduce that percentage with good coaching and development, but never eliminate it.
Marial Mading is 6'11, 195 lbs., ranked 332 in the PF position per 247. I doubt Walker is worrying about him. I did notice that Kofi Cockburn, along with Akok Akok were listed as prospects!!!!
Walker=Pitt or Miami
Deleted member 643761
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Don't really get your point here.
first, when people say "win" I don't necessarily know what they mean. For me, it's returning to the days of the 80s when we consistently were in the top 20.
So the premise is that we win at a lesser level (12 seed level) with middling talent and that helps us land better players that get us in to the 7 seed level which leads to better players that gets us to the 3 seed level. I kinda thought this was obvious but apparently it needs to be spelled out. Of course, maybe I'm totally misinterpreting what people are thinking.
So I think the point of people right now is that we need Underwood to coach the guys he's got to the tourney and that will encourage others of a higher caliber to jump on board.
Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
But wait. Not every program needs to have the same talent, or even the same levels of talent, to succeed. Clearly what we have all been saying (whether we knew it or not) is that we have needed more talent in order to make up for the obvious deficiencies in coaching. Yes, we have had some talent. But it obviously hasn't been enough! So we can either add more talent, or more/better coaching. We've tried switching coaches. So far so bad, with BU yet to make his full case. Just in case, we should also add more talent.
Epsilon
M tipping over
- Pdx
Seemed pretty obvious to me too, but the pages and pages of the same posters rehashing the same points has been comical. All things equal (okay I get they're not, but let's not get away from the point), if you show you can coach kids up to another level from whatever you start at, that shows you can get it done. Then you should presumably get more talented kids buying in. Do worse with what you got and the corrolary is true.
I'm seeing 12:30 pm Saturday Oct. 6 for Quincy Guerrier, if that's who you mean.Is anybody hearing about a Ubben workout for OG??
That's fine as far as it goes, but you run into the Johnny Jones or Lorenzo Romar problem.
On the other hand, name one coach who was an amazing game coach, player developer, roster creator, and scouter for fit to his system that couldn't make it work at the highest level because he just couldn't get good enough guys? (Herb Sendek, if you squint?) It doesn't happen. Just by existing as a Power Five school you get enough talent that doing everything else well keeps you above water, not to mention that the credibility of being an excellent coach can often cause a premier talent to fall into your lap.
It's program building. That's the secret hiding in plain sight.
That isn't really a very controversial opinion, it would be trite and obvious to a lot of people. It's just that in the potential spectrum between a recruiting-focused perspective on what matters in college basketball and an everything-else focused view, this specific website is the absolute furthest possible pole of the recruiting-focused view on earth. And I'm an Illini fan and this is the best Illini board, alas.
(EDIT: Thinking more, you could argue Fran McCaffery for a "great coach without the horses" guy. Mike Brey has gotten out of that box. If anyone argues Bill Carmody I will jump through the computer and smack them.)
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