I agree with the rest of your post, but it is not a matter of "strategy", not the differentiating factor. Posters criticized Groce about recruiting highly talented/ranked players like DJax, Evans, Brunson, Snider, Cliff, ET, etc. etc. Some are now starting to criticize BU for the same thing (Liddell, etc.). Every coach who wants to become successful at Illinois will go after players like that as they should. The differentiating factor is ability to close, not strategy.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (October 2018)
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I agree with the rest of your post, but it is not a matter of "strategy", not the differentiating factor. Posters criticized Groce about recruiting highly talented/ranked players like DJax, Evans, Brunson, Snider, Cliff, ET, etc. etc. Some are now starting to criticize BU for the same thing (Liddell, etc.). Every coach who wants to become successful at Illinois will go after players like that as they should. The differentiating factor is ability to close, not strategy.
Deleted member 654622
D
Guest
I think everyone agrees (maybe not) that their are multiple variable that lure a kid to a college. Out of these, not in any particular order, which one can be changed the quickest?
1. The coach
2. Winning
3. Facilities
4. Getting them to the NBA
5. Atmosphere
6. Pretty Girls
Kind of goes for football as well. But it seems like we are attacking all of these issues, other than girls (wrong use of words there)! Winning more than we should at this point seems like the next step.
1. The coach
2. Winning
3. Facilities
4. Getting them to the NBA
5. Atmosphere
6. Pretty Girls
Kind of goes for football as well. But it seems like we are attacking all of these issues, other than girls (wrong use of words there)! Winning more than we should at this point seems like the next step.
Groce went a guy like Elijah Thomas but he also went for Doral Moore. He went after Brunson and Evans but also went after Shake Milton and Landry Shamet. Although Groce failed at recruiting his plan B guys, it was clear that he was targeting those guys. My problem with BU isn't that he's going after 5 star bigs, but that almost all of his resources are dedicated to those plan A guys. I could be wrong but it didn't seem like we really made Walker feel like a priority but he seemed to be a more realistic get that could still make an impact on the team.
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
Okay, top ten? Top five?
The absolute bottom line is that if the staff has determined a kid is interested, fits, and wants to visit....you get him on campus.
Or maybe we send out an Illinois Loyalty recruit questionnaire?
1. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being committed, how likely are you to commit to Illinois on your visit?
2. Do you know who IDKWTI is?
3. Do you like pancakes?
4. What is the name of the favorite bakery in your town?
Deleted member 11311
D
Guest
Meh...He may be looking to be wowed by coach or visit so there is a chance. You know he's giving off just enough good vibes to our coaches to get the red carpet treatment. Not trying to sound like Mr. Doom & Gloom just relaying idle chatter from a colleague and some of these recruiting analysts.
I don't know, I think they all have plan Bs and the fan perception turns negative once you do not close. The same perception you present with Walker is exactly what I remember many fans said about Landry Shamet, almost word for word.
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That's not an equivalent scenario. The coaching staff (and your sales reps) have a limited amount of time and resources to put into pursing recruits (or sales). You absolutely have to make decisions about where you are spending that time and those resources and part of that calculus is probably of success. Just because someone would be great for you system does not mean you go all in on them if they don't express a level of interest that gives you any confidence. We could have the whole staff follow James Wiseman around the country all season and it would be a colossal waste even though he would be an amazing pick up.
I believe we actually tried this approach with Elijah Thomas and he rated us a solid 10+ on all of them!
t7nich
- Central IL
Q - Top 50 prospect on 247, scoring machine, will be eligible to play starting the second semester this season. Seems like Syracuse could be in the lead at the moment, just based on the tea leaves. But we are getting the last visit, which doesn’t hurt. Need everyone to show up to Ubben on Saturday and give full support for this recruit.. if you can peel yourself away from the incredible B1G matchup of two powerhouse programs, Illinois vs Rutgers. 
sacraig
- The desert
Who knew you were so plugged into the staff's resource allocation.
I don't think anyone here would argue that this staff runs a tighter ship than the last one, especially with respect to leaking information on recruiting. We actually don't know how man plan B and lower guys he's already courting, but I'd be shocked it is is zero, as you seem to fear.
Do you really think he has some plan B guys that he's secretly recruiting and somehow making seem just as valued as the guys being publicity? You're kidding yourself. I'm sure there are plan B guys but that's not the problem. We're not going to have much of a chance with plan B guys if we don't target them as heavily in the fall. Waiting until the spring is not a good backup plan.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
Did the coaching staff not make Walker feel like a priority, or was Walker news not a priority on here?
I would agree with Landry but it seemed like they went pretty hard after Milton. On a different note, who the heck expected Shamet to become a pro..
sacraig
- The desert
I have no idea what he is telling them, but just because they aren't taking an OV (yet) doesn't mean he is treating them poorly. I think it's absolutely absurd to suggest that the staff has no backup plans and will be caught off guard if their plan A guys say no. It defies reality given the amount of experience each of these men have playing this game.
Of course you are correct that OV's are valuable and should be used with care BUT the reality is if you are pursuing highly skilled players you are always going to be in competition with formidable competitors and the risk of being told no will go up. If you want to only use OV's on sure thing recruits go after lesser players. You will have an uncompetitive team but using your logic you wont have wasted your OV's. Having been in Sales for over 40 years and most would say with some success I learned that even the most successful salesman gets told no far more often than yes.
Right, and your James Wiseman is not an equivalent scenario with Quincy Guerrier. We are in Quincy's top 3, but likely not in the lead. The original point being argued was that maybe we shouldn't be using an OV on him because we likely don't have much of a shot. However, I'd definitely say being in the top 3 is "a level of interest that gives [the staff] any confidence," to use your own words.
Wait...so my odds of winning the lottery are 50-50?!?! Hot dang! I need to go buy a ticket!
Odds are fluid.
I agree with you that they all have plan Bs but I still believe what differentiates is the ability to close with some of the primary targets.
Our coaching staff does have experience, but you can also make a case that it defies reality to miss for a second straight year Fall recruiting with many open scholarships and go into Spring with additional open scholarships due to attrition (I think it is likely an additional scholarship will open). But according to Rivals and Corey Evans, we are indeed looking at that (defying reality) possibility straight in the eyes currently. I seriously hope it does not happen.
Just do not spend too much time and resources buying that ticket.
Never suggested that the staff doesn't have backup targets but I question the strategy to go after mostly plan A guys in the Fall and use the spring for plan B guys. I have no problem with targeting these top guys but the balance doesn't seem quite right.
Yeah, I'm not impressed with posts here, or people understanding relationships around recruiting, or the sales element, or what making up ground really means. In some respects, especially for high level recruits, it's about figuring out what they're looking for, spoken or unspoken, and proving, or at least building enough trust, to have them believe you will provide that better than anyone else. It's as much negotiation as sales, because they're in the driver's seat in many regards. Universities, resources, location, influencers, and other factors make the game asymetric and complex. If you're aiming high, most will be misses.
That said, I do understand the angst. The Monday morning quarterbacking, though, is out of control. Especially after the crew brought in a good, perhaps great class for this fall.
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