Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (September 2016)

[coryfor3]

Just curious why Booth ended up at Depaul and not Illinois. It was a period when Illinois was landing the state top talent, so possibly he was not the first or second choice.

David Booth played at Depaul and I believe is a scout for an NBA team now. Derrick Booth is the coach at Manual and David's brother.

 

[SescIllini]

This is meticulous and a bit goofy, so feel free to toss in jokes about growth plates, but I've been following Kiir's twitter pretty closely and he recently changed his listed height from 6'9" to 6'10"...I know, I know. Just a casual observation. With that said, if he sprouts up anymore sign me up x2

It seems folks over 6-3 or so tend to grow later than the average Joe. I'm 6 ft and didn't grow an inch after the age of 17. It doesn't seem to rare for the taller athletes 6-7 and above to continue to grow after the age of 18 and 19. Illini athletes that I remember who grew significantly from their high school commitments are Brain Randle, Mike Finke, and Meyers Leonard.

Duke's Mike Dunleavy grew about 3 inches as well after committing as a high schooler. It happens.

 

[Deleted member 10676]

Some morning recruiting news of interest. Most interesting is about Brian Bowen. It's a pay article and interview this tweet alludes to but maybe Tugs isn't as much of a lock to MSU as everybody thought. Too bad we couldn't even make his final 15 list. btw, that'll make three years in a row that Pearl has landed a 5 star.

[FONT=&quot]Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels 46m46 minutes ago Kentucky, USA [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Brian Bowen breaks down recruitment, his teammates recruiting him, Arizona, UCLA & Notre Dame [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels 12m12 minutes ago Kentucky, USA [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]USC snagged a pledge from Victor Uyaelunmo this morning. Uyaelunmo is a 6-10 shot blocker. Mobile and athletic.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels Kentucky, USA [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Source: No. 11 junior, E.J. Montgomery, commits to Auburn [/FONT]

 

[Obelix]

well I didn't read him to be trying to make out class sound better he was just making the point of saying the best classes by how they rank them really doesn't mean as much as what a team gets to fit what they need. you running down him saying 5x5* centers is as unrealistic as your 5 x5* not knowing there pos if you ask me, for the same reason and not many teams take 5 guys in a year. Malcolm Hill was a 60-70 ranked recruit and not many of us would trade him for anyone that was ranked higher in his class. So lets get these guys in school and see what they do and support them rather then worry about if they are ranked 1st or 500th

The issue is not about recruits/player who commit to play and wear the O&B. Every player who wears the O&B, whether that player deserves to play at the B1G level or not, or whether his name is Malcolm Hill or a 5* player or the 3rd walkon who never gets off the bench, deserves the same support from fans. So please, let's refrain from sentimental statements, whether it is Hill or anyone else who wears the O&B, does not matter.

The issue of debate is whether a class that is heavy on top talent (but may not be as positionally balanced) is better than a class that is more positionally balanced but has average B1G talent. The context is about having a successful program at B1G level.

Ideally, having a roster that has top talent (not just in one class) at different positions is obviously better. Very few schools can do that at all positions. Yet, while it has become a rarity in the last few years for Illinois to get even a single player in that category, we have had quite a few teams that had rosters composed of multiple 5* and McD AAs, last one with Frankie, Griff, Cook, and other players very highly ranked (e.g., Serge - Ill. Mr Basketball).

Top talent again can compensate for positional gaps, very evident in the flyin Illini and other teams. So most coaches will not turn down the opportunity to get a 5* player (assuming they can) at the expense of positional balance. They will simply not do that, neither would Groce. The problem is what happens, and what is the fall back option/class, if you can't/don't get that talent.

So far until this year, Groce aimed for the top talent, but his fall back (actual) classes had been average B1G talent (and that is the level of overall roster, not just specific players) with major positional gap at C/PG. This year, the class is much more positionally balanced (which I like). But let's not pretend that if Groce had a good chance with 5* players, or if he could have substituted some of the committed players with other 5* players, he would not have done it. He absolutely would.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Malcolm Hill was a 60-70 ranked recruit and not many of us would trade him for anyone that was ranked higher in his class.

You'd trade him for a ton of guys ranked higher. But most of those guys are now in the NBA.

In terms of total career value to a college program, you're not going to do a heck of a lot better than Malcolm Hill.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Some morning recruiting news of interest. Most interesting is about Brian Bowen. It's a pay article and interview this tweet alludes to but maybe Tugs isn't as much of a lock to MSU as everybody thought. Too bad we couldn't even make his final 15 list. btw, that'll make three years in a row that Pearl has landed a 5 star.

[FONT=&quot]Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels 46m46 minutes ago Kentucky, USA [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Brian Bowen breaks down recruitment, his teammates recruiting him, Arizona, UCLA & Notre Dame [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels 12m12 minutes ago Kentucky, USA [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]USC snagged a pledge from Victor Uyaelunmo this morning. Uyaelunmo is a 6-10 shot blocker. Mobile and athletic.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels Kentucky, USA [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Source: No. 11 junior, E.J. Montgomery, commits to Auburn [/FONT]

Tugs and UCLA have Wilkes ramifications.

 

[Obelix]

You'd trade him for a ton of guys ranked higher. But most of those guys are now in the NBA.

In terms of total career value to a college program, you're not going to do a heck of a lot better than Malcolm Hill.

Sure, and the issue is not to play Monday morning quarterback and evaluate whether you would have chosen another player 4 years (only for the players who happen to pan out) after that choice has been made. The issue is choosing players (without knowing how they will pan out) at the time of decision.

 

[Greensboro]

We backed off of Victor anyway.

I hear the sarcasm, but man I would have taken him in a heartbeat, 7 footers are hard to come by & a bit disappointed we didn't get a visit.

But I would be quite happy with either of Kiir or Epperson as well.

 

[Obelix]

But I would be quite happy with either of Kiir or Epperson as well.

No doubt, adding another big of that level right now would be a home run.

 

[Greensboro]

Seeing on 247 that Victor Uyaelunmo commits to USC in his profile news.

 

[urbanite]

In terms of total career value to a college program, you're not going to do a heck of a lot better than Malcolm Hill.

Demetrius Jackson could be argued.

(Points/Rebounds/Assists/Steals)
Hill: 1243/467/179/80
Jackson: 1204/322/335/114

And two Elite Eight appearances.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Seeing on 247 that Victor Uyaelunmo commits to USC in his profile news.

Victor said this was a big part of why he committed to USC.

 

[BillMo]

The issue is not about recruits/player who commit to play and wear the O&B. Every player who wears the O&B, whether that player deserves to play at the B1G level or not, or whether his name is Malcolm Hill or a 5* player or the 3rd walkon who never gets off the bench, deserves the same support from fans. So please, let's refrain from sentimental statements, whether it is Hill or anyone else who wears the O&B, does not matter.

The issue of debate is whether a class that is heavy on top talent (but may not be as positionally balanced) is better than a class that is more positionally balanced but has average B1G talent. The context is about having a successful program at B1G level.


no its wasn't the issue was just someone saying class rank doesn't always mean best all around class, And he was right The best all around class would be the class that if you played 1 class vs the other would win, regardless of there ranking

 

[Obelix]

no its wasn't the issue was just someone saying class rank doesn't always mean best all around class, And he was right The best all around class would be the class that if you played 1 class vs the other would win, regardless of there ranking

The issue was about whether class rankings matter, especially for top talent (5* was mentioned). Not picking hypothetical classes 3-4 years later, based on existing knowledge post-selection. You can build classes selecting all-star players who were never top ranked players in HS, but the difficulty is selecting those players at the time of recruiting, not 3-4 years later. Playing Monday morning quarterback or selecting the lottery numbers after the drawing gets you neither wins or prizes.

You can debate recruiting rankings (individual and team) all you want, but the conclusion that they do not matter, especially in the context of 5* players, is a wrong one.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Demetrius Jackson could be argued.

(Points/Rebounds/Assists/Steals)
Hill: 1243/467/179/80
Jackson: 1204/322/335/114

And two Elite Eight appearances.

Sure. You can do better. But a guy who is a four year solid contributor and grows into one of the elite players in the conference is a higher total return than any one-and-done this side of Kevin Durant.

The tough part is having more than one of those guys at a time. Kendrick Nunn wasn't that guy, can Black be that? JCL?

 

[BigSandysFinest]

If we end up with Kiir and don't fill the 6th scholarship, it will be a top-10 class in our hearts, but probably not according to the ranking services. We'd finish with the following (composite rankings):

#25 - Jeremiah Tilmon
#102 - Trent Frazier
#107 - Da'Monte Williams
#146 - Mayan Kiir
#242 - Javon Pickett

That's one top-100 player (a 5-star big man, so it's obviously a huge deal), two 4-star guards, a borderline 3/4-star big, and a 3-star wing. Great class, huge for us, but according to the 247 class calculator (for whatever it's worth), it would put our class around #18 based on the last three years.

To get a top-10 class, we'd have to add Kigab, Wilkes, or a real surprise like Eastern. Kigab would probably put us in the 9 to 11 range; Wilkes would put us in the 5-7 range. Just goes to show how much talent the top programs bring in every year: even if we finished up with Wilkes and Jacob Epperson, we'd still be at the back end of the top-5 in the final class rankings. To compete with Duke, UK, KU, et al, we'd have had to reel in a class like Tilmon, Goodwin, Scruggs, Wilkes, Bowen, and Xavier Tillman (just drawing from our list of targets).

That's the goal. One day we will pull in those absolutely filthy classes. But for now, Groce has to build that momentum. I'd prefer to finish with Kigab (Wiggins in the flesh, I swear) and Kiir/Epperson. Wilkes' recruitment has bridesmaid written all over it. But none of this matters if Groce is unable to get Ws.

 

[BillyBob1]

Victor said this was a big part of why he committed to USC.

Why would Pat Haden have an impact here?

 

[Obelix]

But a guy who is a four year solid contributor and grows into one of the elite players in the conference is a higher total return than any one-and-done this side of Kevin Durant.

I would say this depends also on other factors, it is debatable IMO. Hill has been really good, yet it is really disappointing (you have to feel bad for Hill himself) that a player with his character and on-off contributions has not even smelled NCAA tournament after 3 years.

So as far as program is concerned, I would definitely take a Kevin Durant type any day, any time. Stayed one year, made the NCAA, got a 4th seed. Became a huge success story in the NBA. Texas stills reaps the benefits of that. Durant is still a very marketable asset to Texas, despite not getting multiple years, NC, or an even very deep run. We have not even have had that yet, and while Hill has been a great great asset, he may likely not have the long term impact of Durant/Texas.

I know that people say that we can still do well without the 1-n-dones, etc. etc. and it is true. But that is highly influenced by the fact that we can't get the 1-n-dones, let alone multiple ones.

One of the best things that could happen to Groce and the program right now would be to get a 1-n-done. If we could get a Kevin Durant that would be a dream come true. Even for a year. JMO

 

[Foggy Notion]

I would say this depends also on other factors, it is debatable IMO. Hill has been really good, yet it is really disappointing (you have to feel bad for Hill himself) that a player with his character and on-off contributions has not even smelled NCAA tournament after 3 years.

So as far as program is concerned, I would definitely take a Kevin Durant type any day, any time. Stayed one year, made the NCAA, got a 4th seed. Became a huge success story in the NBA. Texas stills reaps the benefits of that. Durant is still a very marketable asset to Texas, despite not getting multiple years, NC, or an even very deep run. We have not even have had that yet, and while Hill has been a great great asset, he may likely not have the long term impact of Durant/Texas.

I know that people say that we can still do well without the 1-n-dones, etc. etc. and it is true. But that is highly influenced by the fact that we can't get the 1-n-dones, let alone multiple ones.

One of the best things that could happen to Groce and the program right now would be to get a 1-n-done. If we could get a Kevin Durant that would be a dream come true. Even for a year. JMO

You're right. We should really try to sign Kevin Durant.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I would say this depends also on other factors, it is debatable IMO. Hill has been really good, yet it is really disappointing (you have to feel bad for Hill himself) that a player with his character and on-off contributions has not even smelled NCAA tournament after 3 years.

So as far as program is concerned, I would definitely take a Kevin Durant type any day, any time. Stayed one year, made the NCAA, got a 4th seed.

Leaving many other things aside, I think you're underestimating the importance of having a complete roster deep with talent and experience and coaching and all the rest.

If we had a Malcolm Hill at each position we would be the best team in the country.

Put a superstar one-and-done on a badly coached threadbare roster and you get LSU last year.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

You're right. We should really try to sign Kevin Durant.

Agreed.

Freshmen keep getting more and more hype, but there still hasn't been another one as good as KD.

 

[CAHALL15]

Agreed.

Freshmen keep getting more and more hype, but there still hasn't been another one as good as KD.

If we're talking impact college freshman then I'd put Michael Beasley in that discussion as he actually averaged more points and rebounds per game. I think what gets lost is his off court issues and not producing like a number two pick should.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Why would Pat Haden have an impact here?

Haha, you get it!!

 

[OldGreg]

Apparently Justin Smith down to IU and Nova

 

[FatGreg]

If Smith picks IU, does that have any effect on Wilkes?