Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#301      
Well, I am really disinterested in engaging in a back and forth. So I will offer a couple opinions or points. I don’t really care to “debate” so I will just say my peace and go back to watching Michigan St and K St.

Loses control as per this topic: When one is talking about emotional outbursts of a 59 year old coach, or any coach, on the sideline of a nationally televised basketball game, and the coach is screaming, being at times restrained by numerous staff members, red in the face and inches from the face of an 18 year old kid, (a kid that is 6 months removed from high school) while using repeated m-f profanities, which continues for perhaps 30 seconds….many to most would say that the coach kinda lost it. (Or, has “lost control”) Hope that helps.

No one, and not a single post that I’ve seen on this topic….not one, has said coaches shouldn’t be “allowed” to yell at players. Please stop with that yelling narrative. If you can find that post that says “no yelling” please go ahead and waste your time searching ….but if there is one, I haven’t seen it.
Most (including me) would agree that yelling at players is the norm in competitive sports. Certainly it is the norm in college basketball. I’ve not read a single person that has issue with that. But, that’s not what some of us are talking about. Please stop the narrative that you created, not me, that yelling crosses the line. If you cannot see the difference between yelling and m-f’ing someone repeatedly on national television and in front of 15,000 people and how bad that looks - I cannot help you. Perhaps a life coach, or your parents, or significant other, or a teacher, or guidance counselor, or pastor, or friend, or grand parents, or your children can better explain it to you than I can. I encourage you to seek that out.

Candidly, your last paragraph is laughable. The BU /JE situation is frequently being referenced with this topic. So responding to your post as it pertains to Jayden Epps….um, he is a winner. He was the top player in his state coming out of high school. Um, he does have a “dog attitude” which is obvious if you objectively watch him play. Brad himself has said that repeatedly. I never saw him crumble under pressure….conversely, I saw him give tremendous effort and remain even keeled emotionally throughout the season. Of course he had difficulty defending some people. He’s a freshman that made defensive mistakes, similar to our sophomores, juniors, seniors and super senior. For the love of God, people were talking about JE being on a B1G all freshman team. Good gracious. How quickly we forget how high everyone was on Jayden Epps until perhaps the last 3 weeks of the season or so. This narrative that some are creating the JE is weak minded and quit is ridiculous.

You can blame everything you want on the players. That’s ok. But perhaps BU toning it down a bit might actually result in better player retention and build a roster of consistency. Maybe coaching would actually be better received if players weren’t being humiliated and m-f’ed. Most reasonable people would have difficulty disagreeing with that. I know in corporate America there is a tremendous investment in hiring, training, and developing employees. If managers in corporate America continuously had new hires lasting a number of months and leaving the organization, and it occurred frequently, all eyes would be on the manager. What does that leader need to do differently to either identify, hire, train, coach, and develop talent so they remain and thrive within the organization. At some point the manager/leader needs to adjust. We have for the past couple years had lots of highly rated players that came here that are both “tough” and are “winners” (your words) and there have been countless personnel issues. (Shoulder shrug) But feel free to tag these players as being the problem and refusing to believe maybe the leader could do something better. (Another shoulder shrug) I honestly don’t understand why this is so difficult to process.

Lastly, I don’t give a crap that Tom Izzo is over the top at times also. Who cares? But there are countless examples of successful coaches that I do not see m-f’ing players on national tv. If you think that Brad and Tom are acting appropriately by doing so, have at it. You and I simply have a differing level regarding what’s acceptable and what isn’t. But because Izzo does it too doesn’t make it ok.
Good post. I really don’t have much of a problem with the yelling, etc., though I’d greatly prefer it to fall short of mother effing in a players face at any time but certainly during games.

Two quick comments about things you said that others have too that bother me a bit. First, the emphasis on nationally televised game. Not sure why that really matters. Second, equating TOs situation with corporate America and bosses, etc. College basketball isn’t corporate America. Not sure why this comparison bothers me, but so just don’t think it is applicable at all. On the flip side, the constant bringing up of Izzo to illustrate why it is OK that BU loses it some times is tiresome too. There are plenty of very successful coaches who don’t go nearly as far as Izzo or BU. And there are unsuccessful coaches who swear and yell at their players. Some I believe have actually been let go because of it — or at least it has been a contributing factor.

One final thing in general. I see a lot of “players
know what they are getting themselves into” argument. And while this is technically correct, I do wonder if they really “know.” It’s one thing to see it happen to someone else and another to have a coach foaming at the mouth yelling expletives in your face during a game. I don’t know if you can really know what that is really like until you’ve experienced it. I played sports and had coaches that were yellers. I never had one that got up in players faces and mother effed them. To be honest, I likely wouldn’t had lasted long as I would likely stopped to the coach’s level and swore right back at him. So this idea that a player is a quitter or isn’t a dawg cuz he transfers rather than have to wipe “mother effing” coach spittle off his face during games is a bit ridiculous. You can yell and not be demeaning.
 
#302      
He was listed as 6'3 in college, now 6'2 in the NBA...6'1 his senior year in high school.
🤔 We have math people on here, figure this out.
All you need is to be a loyalty person. Clearly his growth plates were open, then closed, then he took his shoes off and removed a vertebrae from his neck so it wouldn’t be too long.
 
#306      
Ok….who are these people??? Give it a rest already! BU is our coach until told otherwise and you have no control over it!
Nor should any of us be granted control. 3 things everyone feels they could do better at -- Run a bar, manage our own bosses than they manage us and be a better coach when you are the parent.
 
#307      
Good post. I really don’t have much of a problem with the yelling, etc., though I’d greatly prefer it to fall short of mother effing in a players face at any time but certainly during games.

Two quick comments about things you said that others have too that bother me a bit. First, the emphasis on nationally televised game. Not sure why that really matters. Second, equating TOs situation with corporate America and bosses, etc. College basketball isn’t corporate America. Not sure why this comparison bothers me, but so just don’t think it is applicable at all.

Thanks for your view and your respectful comments. (An example how respect and dialogue on this board with varying views can be productive….at least from my perspective)
The national TV comment comes from this vantage point:
First, if BU were to m-f players and berate them in practice only, it wouldn’t be ok per say, but only a few on this board would know about (Indy, Louisville, DB and 0440). I use the example of national tv simply to say that now it’s there for the world to observe, and therefore opens himself up to the praise or criticism from millions. It also opens up others that potentially can influence players to be critical of the program and coach.
When the Beloved have the opportunity to play on CBS nationally during prime time, or ESPN, etc, they are in fact representing the University of Illinois, and the m-f stuff is a bad look. The yelling doesn’t bother me. But it does bother me when BU appears to completely lose his temper and berate and humiliate players. There’s a difference between that and yelling.
That matters….at least it should to me.

Regarding corporate America, is use the example because what we are really talking about is a leading people. Brad is tasked with identifying, sourcing, and hiring personnel (recruiting and signing players) and then coaching and developing them.
HE chose the player and the player accepted the opportunity. (Just like corporate America)
If his management, leadership, or communication style isn’t effectively reaching his personnel (players) and the turnover rate is significantly hire than expected year over year, then that would be an issue. BU is either not finding and bringing on board the right players (would be a problem) or he isn’t managing/leading them effectively (additional problem). In corporate America, HR/Legal/Senior Leadership would typically get involved and identify concerns, come up with a plan to correct things and move forward, and have timely follow up and accountability. I think corporate America is a perfect example, as this is really about BU leading the organization and creating an environment for all players to thrive, develop, grow, etc…(Please note, I never said coddle players. I don’t say preferential treatment.) Simply figure out how to communicate in a way that everyone thrives….which could be the end of the bench, the treadmill, yelling, having an assistant talk to them, etc. But rage and m-f’s seem to not be working as we are turning the roster over and/or creating a dysfunctional ‘team’ as evidenced by transfers, walk outs, multiple players not responding well to his style etc.
I am the same age as BU and recognize that how we communicate with people in all facets of life is dramatically different than it was as recently as 10/20 (pick a number) years ago. I do not understand how many are so opposed to the idea that BU would be well served to tone it down a bit.

Again, thanks for the dialogue and apologies to those that feel this is a waste of time. Perhaps we all are well served, I certainly know I am, to be reminded how important it is regarding how we communicate with one another….and that’s way bigger than Illini basketball.
 
#309      

chiefini

Rockford, Illinois
…When the Beloved have the opportunity to play on CBS nationally during prime time, or ESPN, etc, they are in fact representing the University of Illinois, and the m-f stuff is a bad look. The yelling doesn’t bother me. But it does bother me when BU appears to completely lose his temper and berate and humiliate players. There’s a difference between that and yelling.
That matters….at least it should to me.

STL, Agree with your well-written post. When I posted that Underwood’s video screaming at Epps on national TV was a bad look for the program and university, this is exactly what I meant. I also said it was an outlier because I feel this one video portrayed BU the most out of control, with his MFing and rage, that I had ever seen. I’ve often seen him getting in a player’s face and yelling, but not to this extreme…This one bothered me, too, because of Epps’ extreme reaction, neither of which were positives for Illinois’ brand for the nation to see.
 
#310      
Not sure where else to put this. This guy over at Hoosiers Now is doing a B1G Ten Baskeball transfer tracker for anyone that is interested.

Big Ten Basketball Transfer Portal Tracker​

(Updated Thursday, March 23 at 5:40 p.m. ET)

Although the NCAA Tournament is still going on, the college basketball transfer portal is in full swing. More than 700 players have entered the portal already, and that number is sure to grow every day. For men's college basketball, the window to enter the transfer portal began on March 13 and will conclude on May 11.

Welcome to our Big Ten men's basketball transfer portal tracker, where we'll keep you updated on the latest incoming and outgoing transfer news for all 14 Big Ten teams.

https://www.si.com/college/indiana/basketball/big-ten-basketball-transfer-portal-tracker
 
#311      
There is a difference between yelling, tough love, and losing control. Yelling may be constructive. Tough love can be constructive. Unfortunately if one lipreads Underwood during the Epps/Underwood clip, Underwood does not say one constructive thing in the entire rant. Not one statement of "you need to do X", or "why didn't you do Y". It is pure anger and foaming at the mouth swearing. The kid already knew he screwed up. The swearing was a clear negative value action; 100% fault to Underwood. He owes Epps a major apology. After the first few sentences, an assistant should have stepped in-between just like they do to keep Underwood away from the refs. Long term, Underwood needs to learn this isn't a productive behavior. If his beef is people telling him he needs to calm down and think more before the swearing rants, then IMO he should listen, and get far more anger counseling, or get out of coaching (not just out of UI). I'm not one for coddling. That applies to coaches as well as players.
I have to say, think you are exaggerating the " foaming at the mouth swearing" part. Saying "Do your MFing job." is far different than saying "You MFer."
Yes, BU was pi$$ed. But that is what I look like after one of my kids ignores me for the fifteenth time and keeps up doing what I have told them not to do. I am generally very tolerant, but on rare occasions one of my kids will push me too far.
If a player keeps ignoring what I have told him to do, then he should expect me to express my displeasure. It is an escalation of response. You only push the nuclear button if every other attempt has failed.
I seriously doubt that Epps was getting his butt chewed because he was not good enough or strong enough or fast enough. Nor to facilitate his learning to play the game. He was getting it chewed because he wasn't following the plan. Epps may have known he screwed up. But the coach wants him to stop screwing up.
Chewing out a player on the sideline may not be a good look, but you don't know whether it was justified or how effective or productive it may be.
 
#314      
It seems as though a lot of fans were more traumatized than the players. As of this moment, 16 B1G players not named Skyy have entered the portal. None of them finished the season on the Illini. That tells me no one was so put off by BU's behavior that they aren't going to hear him out before making the leap to the portal.
 
#316      
At least he didn't throw a chair across the court.
Or win 3 NCs
Just Saying Jersey Shore GIF by Jersey Shore Family Vacation
 
#323      
Is there any reason why moretti can’t be our point guard next year?
 
#324      
Heard James Brown is heading to Link Academy next year … Morez is gonna have the rock a lot more …
I hope Morez decides to stay at Rita for that very reason. I think he can be a gamechanger for the Illini. Good luck to JB. If Rita can get a PG and the Iowa State kid stays, would be great for Morez to have a good chance to reach state.
 
#325      
Or win 3 NCs
Just Saying Jersey Shore GIF by Jersey Shore Family Vacation
And John Wooden was calm and composed and won 10 of them. Truth is a coach's composure can have a very wide range and be successful and there's plenty of history with that. There's no one right way to behave as a coach, you just have to be the right coach for the players you have. I think it's fair to say that this season there were a few players who Underwood was not the right coach for (or they weren't the right players for, however you want to say it). That was readily apparent. I also think it's fair to say that Brad did try his best to attempt to cater to them during the season by clearly taking a step back at times (probably the correct call for the sake of the program, though not necessarily the best for building a tourney team this year).

Overall, rather than saying that Brad needs to retain or change his fiery demeanor, it's far more important in my opinion that the players he brings into the program next year mesh and excel in the style he uses to motivate them better than some of the "paid actors" he had this year. Get good character and team chemistry fits first and foremost and the rest will work its way out. But I agree with your sentiment in that the calls for Brad to coach more calm and composed is more a personal preference thing than a gatekeeper to success thing.
 
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