Big Jack
- Decatur
Yes more than once but albeit not to the same level as he did Epps a couple of times.
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
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Define "loses control".
I'd say that some kids can hack the tough love, in your face approach. Watch Tom Izzo tonight. He's eyeball to eyeball with his guys and they're eyeball to eyeball right back. It's a man coaching men, it's not a man coaching kids. At 18-22, these are grown adults. They're going to all experience much more difficult situations in life than their basketball coach yelling at them. Life happens. Adversity happens. It's how you deal with it that defines you.
People say that they want players with a "dog attitude". It's highly unlikely you can get that from guys who crumble under distress. Winning games whether it be on the road, gutting games out when not playing well, having to out tough the other guy seems pretty unlikely if you can't look your coach in the eye, refuse to check back in when things aren't going well or feeling picked on when things get loud. BU is trying to install toughness. That's his style. He's gone on record that he wants winners and tough guys and those who aren't need not apply. Just my take.
Wonder what BU’s response would be if Josh came up to him after the game and said “What are you doing MFer? I am paying you a lot of money to lose games.” If you are all right with that then all is fine but respect should not be dependent on age or status.
Epps the last 1/3 of the year continually got lost on defense, got pushed around by more physical guards, made poor decisions running the offense and was hardly playable. I don't think that can be disputed. BU tried to light a fire and it didn't work. It's hard to soft soap a guy who is becoming a liability on both ends. If BU had a better option at PG(which I'm sure is being addressed), Epps would have seen a lot more bench and he wouldn't have gotten yelled at. Some of the issues were understandable because he was a freshman and he was thrust into a tough spot. Some of the issues were not paying attention, losing focus and carelessness. Can't have that.
Are we still debating if BU yells and swears to much as a D1 head BB coach? This did not cause us to have a poor end of the year. It has not caused us to not get to the 2nd weekend. It has not contributed to any perceived shortcomings of this team. This is the just a non-issue being blown way the F out of proportion on loyalty IMHO. We were in the toilet under JG and the end of Bruce. Do we really need to invent things to be upset about at this point. Enjoy the ride. Hope BU is here for the long term.
Not an insider, but I’d take him. In-state kid, capable ball-handler, good athlete. Shot 38.4% from 3 his last non-Kansas year.
If BU continually got lost on his way to visit a recruit, wasn't tough enough to walk through snow to get to an appointment with parents, gave up when a recruit committed somewhere else and it was hurting the program because he was being outworked...yes, I'm sure JW would pump up the volume.
He couldn't get off the bench at KS. Although he is fairly athletic and can shoot the ball.
In his two years at Kansas, playing high-major ball, he shot 26% and about 29% from three (averaging 2 and 4 PPG those two seasons). Hard pass.
Among the top few soundtracks of all time
I found an interesting article about all the former Illinois high school players at a program that made the Sweet 16.
Not saying our recruiting is bad, just wondering why we cannot get more in-state players to stay close to home??
Our best teams always seem to have core Illinois high school players, especially 89 and 05.
From Peoria Journal Star (go to article to see ALL 43 players in the Big Dance)
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/march-...m-ncaa-womens-tournament-day-2-052647062.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder-los-angeles-clippers-2023032312/
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/charlotte-hornets-new-orleans-pelicans-2023032303/
Journal Star
2
Wes Huett, Journal Star
Thu, March 23, 2023, 11:33 AM EDT
The NCAA men's basketball tournament continues this week across the nation.
The field of 68 included two teams from the state of Illinois: the University of Illinois and Northwestern University, both of the Big Ten Conference. Both lost before the Sweet 16.
But what about those athletes who with hometowns listed from Illinois? We have you covered.
Below are the at least 43 NCAA Tournament players who are from Illinois, separated by those still in the Sweet 16 and then by conference starting with the Big Ten and MVC, followed by other major conferences and mid-majors.
Not saying our recruiting is bad, just wondering why we cannot get more in-state players to stay close to home??
Our best teams always seem to have core Illinois high school players, especially 89 and 05.
From Peoria Journal Star (go to article to see ALL 43 players in the Big Dance)
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/march-...m-ncaa-womens-tournament-day-2-052647062.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/oklahoma-city-thunder-los-angeles-clippers-2023032312/
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/charlotte-hornets-new-orleans-pelicans-2023032303/
Journal Star
March Madness 2023: Meet the 13 former Illinois players part of the NCAA Tournament's Sweet 16
2
Wes Huett, Journal Star
Thu, March 23, 2023, 11:33 AM EDT
The NCAA men's basketball tournament continues this week across the nation.
The field of 68 included two teams from the state of Illinois: the University of Illinois and Northwestern University, both of the Big Ten Conference. Both lost before the Sweet 16.
But what about those athletes who with hometowns listed from Illinois? We have you covered.
Below are the at least 43 NCAA Tournament players who are from Illinois, separated by those still in the Sweet 16 and then by conference starting with the Big Ten and MVC, followed by other major conferences and mid-majors.
Sweet 16
- Malik Hall, Michigan State: 6-8 senior forward from Aurora Matea Valley. Sweet 16 vs. Kansas State
- A.J. Casey, Miami (Fla.): 6-9 freshman forward from Chicago Whitney Young. Sweet 16 vs. Houston
- Kam Craft, Xavier: 6-6 freshman guard from Chicago. He played prep ball at Buffalo Grove. Sweet 16 vs. Texas
- Devin Davis, Creighton: 6-0 junior guard from Chicago Westinghouse. Sweet 16 vs. Princeton
- Sami Osmani, Creighton: 6-4 junior guard from Oak Lawn. Sweet 16 vs. Princeton
- Amari Bailey, UCLA: 6-5 freshman guard from Chicago. He played prep ball at Sierra Canyon in California. Sweet 16 vs. Gonzaga
- Nimari Burnett, Alabama: 6-4 sophomore guard from Chicago Morgan Park. He also played prep ball at Prolific Prep in California. Sweet 16 vs. San Diego State
- Max Scharnowski, Alabama: 6-6 junior forward from Elgin. He played prep ball at Wheaton Academy. Sweet 16 vs. San Diego State
- Braden Huff, Gonzaga: 6-10 freshman forward from Glen Ellyn Glenbard West. Sweet 16 vs. UCLA
- Malachi Smith, Gonzaga: 6-4 junior guard from Belleville West. Sweet 16 vs. UCLA
- Cam Lawin, San Diego State: 6-3 freshman from Chicago Orr. Sweet 16 vs. Alabama
- Blake Peters, Princeton: 6-1 sophomore guard from Evanston. First round vs. Creighton
- Caden Pierce, Princeton: 6-6 freshman guard from Glen Ellyn Glenbard West. First round vs. Creighton
Correction, not if Josh came up to him after the game, but during the game on national TV...
There is also a difference between yelling in practice, yelling during games, and getting a few inches from a guy on TV.
Just like there's a difference between occasionally losing your cool in the spur of the moment and treating that anger like its a virtue to be celebrated.
I think it's totally relevant because our best recruits lately (Miller, Curbelo, Skyy, Kofi, maybe others this year...) are all leaving to play for teams that aren't in the NBA. So is there a scouting failure or a coaching failure not connecting with the players? Both of these are BU's job.
This is just not true. In the NFL, tons of players look for a coach to develop them because they want to improve to get their next contract. Do you think the Chicago Bears aren't investing any time developing the talent of Justin Fields and it's only "putting him in the right places"? Really?
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Do you really believe Miller, Curbelo, and Skyy are our best recruits lately? I realize they were highly regarded as prep players, but would you trade Melendez, Rodgers, Goode, Hawkins for any of them?
I’d say those guys are all great examples of how ratings don’t really matter.
Post Of The Day! This is different. You are not teaching the man to throw, or run, you are teaching him schemes, identifying defenses, within your offense, i.e. putting him in the right places making the right reads. If they thought the ceiling was high but his current level required time to hone his skills i.e. high school mlb prospect, they are not going to waste a high pick when could likely get lower and spend time developing.
College hoops is that time for development.
It pains me the disagree, but…Pre-injury Curbelo was big ten 6th man of the year. Miller’s freshman year in Champaign was better than any season that any of the 3 you listed has ever had. Skyy - personally not a fan. He left us high and dry. However, we beat UCLA and Texas with him on the roster. No other quad 1 wins the rest of the season.
Yes, they were the best recruits. That doesn't mean there aren't mistakes in scouting, even in the NFL/NBA there are first round busts. But you still need that first round talent to succeed. My concern is that if this pattern continues of top 50 recruits leaving early under not the best circumstances, then it will make it harder to recruit future top 50 recruits here.
And the Illinois pattern is that we win when we have top 50 recruits who are studs (Frank, Dee, Ayo) and we lose when we don't.
Your 4 guys are fine but there is a ceiling to how good that team will be without a superstar in the mix. In my opinion.
In the alternate universe where Miller stays and doesn't tear the ACL, even if he caps at Rich McBride skill level, that is trade-worthy. Skyy, we will see if he is awesome or terrible at Louisville. Curbelo has skills no one on this team has and something drastic must have happened that I still don't know about to have the guy who'd give BU the big hugs after all the wins want to leave the program.
Well, I am really disinterested in engaging in a back and forth. So I will offer a couple opinions or points. I don’t really care to “debate” so I will just say my peace and go back to watching Michigan St and K St.
Loses control as per this topic: When one is talking about emotional outbursts of a 59 year old coach, or any coach, on the sideline of a nationally televised basketball game, and the coach is screaming, being at times restrained by numerous staff members, red in the face and inches from the face of an 18 year old kid, (a kid that is 6 months removed from high school) while using repeated m-f profanities, which continues for perhaps 30 seconds….many to most would say that the coach kinda lost it. (Or, has “lost control”) Hope that helps.
No one, and not a single post that I’ve seen on this topic….not one, has said coaches shouldn’t be “allowed” to yell at players. Please stop with that yelling narrative. If you can find that post that says “no yelling” please go ahead and waste your time searching ….but if there is one, I haven’t seen it.
Most (including me) would agree that yelling at players is the norm in competitive sports. Certainly it is the norm in college basketball. I’ve not read a single person that has issue with that. But, that’s not what some of us are talking about. Please stop the narrative that you created, not me, that yelling crosses the line. If you cannot see the difference between yelling and m-f’ing someone repeatedly on national television and in front of 15,000 people and how bad that looks - I cannot help you. Perhaps a life coach, or your parents, or significant other, or a teacher, or guidance counselor, or pastor, or friend, or grand parents, or your children can better explain it to you than I can. I encourage you to seek that out.
Candidly, your last paragraph is laughable. The BU /JE situation is frequently being referenced with this topic. So responding to your post as it pertains to Jayden Epps….um, he is a winner. He was the top player in his state coming out of high school. Um, he does have a “dog attitude” which is obvious if you objectively watch him play. Brad himself has said that repeatedly. I never saw him crumble under pressure….conversely, I saw him give tremendous effort and remain even keeled emotionally throughout the season. Of course he had difficulty defending some people. He’s a freshman that made defensive mistakes, similar to our sophomores, juniors, seniors and super senior. For the love of God, people were talking about JE being on a B1G all freshman team. Good gracious. How quickly we forget how high everyone was on Jayden Epps until perhaps the last 3 weeks of the season or so. This narrative that some are creating the JE is weak minded and quit is ridiculous.
You can blame everything you want on the players. That’s ok. But perhaps BU toning it down a bit might actually result in better player retention and build a roster of consistency. Maybe coaching would actually be better received if players weren’t being humiliated and m-f’ed. Most reasonable people would have difficulty disagreeing with that. I know in corporate America there is a tremendous investment in hiring, training, and developing employees. If managers in corporate America continuously had new hires lasting a number of months and leaving the organization, and it occurred frequently, all eyes would be on the manager. What does that leader need to do differently to either identify, hire, train, coach, and develop talent so they remain and thrive within the organization. At some point the manager/leader needs to adjust. We have for the past couple years had lots of highly rated players that came here that are both “tough” and are “winners” (your words) and there have been countless personnel issues. (Shoulder shrug) But feel free to tag these players as being the problem and refusing to believe maybe the leader could do something better. (Another shoulder shrug) I honestly don’t understand why this is so difficult to process.
Lastly, I don’t give a crap that Tom Izzo is over the top at times also. Who cares? But there are countless examples of successful coaches that I do not see m-f’ing players on national tv. If you think that Brad and Tom are acting appropriately by doing so, have at it. You and I simply have a differing level regarding what’s acceptable and what isn’t. But because Izzo does it too doesn’t make it ok.
Annnndddddd.... We lost with him at PG. Sounds like either way.... We lost.
How many play impactful roles on these teams? How many would displace a current Illinois player? How many have true Illinois ties? Amari Bailey and Nimari Burnett left Chicago area early. Burnett has been often injured. Illinois lost interest in Casey, not sure why but probably felt better with Ty Rogers. Malik Hall maybe the only true miss, and even then I think he would have been a solid player and not star. Braden Huff is intriguing down the road, believe currently rides the bench. But can see him as a solid stretch 4 in a couple of years.
AyoDos11
- Southern Illinois
Correlation does not equal causation.
Epps would be a critical piece to the puzzle next season. If you can't see that then I'm sorry.
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