Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[JJB]

Who put stock into Giorgi and Andres? There’s plenty of other 2 and 3 stars that we didn’t want that blew up at other places. Recruiting is all about traits, skill sets and how they project. Also a foreword who played PG in high school and for team USA. You’ll also see about 4 other guys play point too. But yup it’s just gonna be Ty!

For the rankings services faithful, here is the 2024 Class, in a historical context, based on 247 rankings for 68 HS and Juco recruits for the Illini since 2003:

#4 - Morez Johnson (sandwiched between Skyy Clark and Meyers Leonard)
#44 - Jason Jakstyts (sandwiched between Austin Colbert and Te'Jon Williams)
#49 - Jase Butler (sandwiched between Damonte Williams and Calvin Block)

Just for fun and maybe speaks a little to why the lead recruiter on both Butler and Lewis accepted a Butler commitment today even at the expense of losing Lewis.
#67 - Chester Frazier (sandwiched between Ibrahima Djimde and Mr. Dream Killa himself, Dominque Keller)

Illinois All Time Basketball Recruits

Illinois

247sports.com

247's rankings approach isn't entirely clear (probably some composite score that isn't cleanly apples to apples across years as the rankings game and companies behind it changed). Some things are just wrong such as 2009 class listed all as NA (BP3 and DJ Richardson were #49 and #35 in RSCI). It skews the list, but still give you some levels of solid comparison.

Some thoughts:
- Our top 10 recruits are all over the map with the agony (Skyy, Jereme, Curbelo mostly) and the ectasy (Ayo, Kofi, Curbelo for a time). While our program highlights most cetainly are due to nabbing studs in Ayo and Kofi, the remainder of the Top 10 hasn't really contributed all that much to program success. Woof.
- Our 4 star recuits beyond the top 10 have some all time names like BP3 and Malcolm Hill, yet they combined for two second round NCAA appearances in a combined 8 years. Some were good players who probably had to do much on talent deprived team (Leron, DJ, and Egwu). Most of the rest more or less didn't contribute a whole lot to our program (Mike Shaw) or had sour ends (Nunn).
- The 3 stars and below level have, as you'd expect, mostly missed. Trent was a stud. Damonte, Giorgi, Feliz were special role players. So Underwood has got some track record on hitting with some of these bets. Definetely not all (hardly knew ye, Zacharie Perinn).
- A lot of our top recruits since Dee, Deron, etc. have not produced a great ROI. I hope I remember this the next time strong recruiting class with several 4 stars kicks off its hype cycle on this board.

 

[thefalcon5]

I’m all in on bringing in talent that wants to develop and ride pine in years one and two if that’s their goal as well. You don’t play 13 kids every year.

But the jury is most definitely still out on if BU and co. are better diamond in the rough finders than your average bear. Giorgi and Feliz. Matic, Kane, Higgs, Hamlin, Lieb, Hutcherson.

2/8 hits for diamonds in the rough. And sure some of those misses didn’t pan out for injury reasons and others were certainly takes only because we needed warm bodies. But to type out that BU is a fantastic evaluator and needs to be given leeway with rankings is something I can’t agree on.

 

[Sedino]

So you're confirming the facts I provided, that's a start. We also have had good recruiting & transfer classes. Like I was saying, our roster looks similar to (or better than in some cases) all of those listed. The class in particular (2024) that you guys are currently poo-pooing is now rated 10th in the country by 247.

It’s 10th based on quantity, not quality, except for Morez. If our class stayed exactly the same as it is now, by the time this class ended we would not be in the top 25 classes. Mediocrity.

If you’re okay with mediocrity, that’s on you. Last year we don’t take a McDonalds All American who WANTED to come here because “he needs to work on his shooting” but then one year later we’re accepting a kid at his EXACT SAME POSITION who is clearly not as good. Mediocrity.

Speaking of same position. Just a few months ago put all of our chips into a single player who was 100% going to come here, so we told other players to look elsewhere. He went to Baylor. All the other players at that position were now elsewhere or not interested because we told them no and now have to fill that position with someone who does not have a single second of experience playing it at a college level. The same position that McDAA played who wasnt “good enough at shooting.” But apparently the 189th recruit who plays that position is good enough. Mediocrity.

 

[Keisersose]

I won’t get into specific details … But TJ originally committed to DePaul and to a Meanstreets guys in TA when we supposedly had MIFs guy on staff … That meant we get Ayo, TJ, THT, and Whitney … Chin went 1/4 … It was embarrassing when we lost TJ to freaking DePaul … Brad was livid …

As for THT … He wanted to come … Brad wanted him to come … He committed on his visit … It was a done deal … He was coming … Was gonna wear 25 … The whole deal … The summer “issues” were solved … Until someone said something they should not have in front of someone who was not supposed to know … And everything fell apart …

Whitney went to UK … So like Brad somewhat understood it and he obviously got terrible advice and didn’t pan out … But again … The deal was we got him too … And we didn’t …

And don’t even get me started on Michael Foster and how Chin screwed that one up as well …

Ok now would you expand more or EJ and Walker ?

 

[IllinoisFan733]

I don’t know why people keep bringing up his coach BU’s salary. You aren’t paying it, and if he doesn’t perform he won’t be here in a year or two regardless of his salary.

Coach BU has landed some high 4 stars (Morez could be a 5.) Really high on Ty and Amani. Fears is a borderline 5 as well, if they can lock him up.

He’s also in on a lot of top players for 25 and 26. I believe the team this year will far surpass last years squad, and that team was borderline top 25-30 team all season despite all the headaches.

 

[Joel Goodson]

I’m all in on bringing in talent that wants to develop and ride pine in years one and two if that’s their goal as well. You don’t play 13 kids every year.

But the jury is most definitely still out on if BU and co. are better diamond in the rough finders than your average bear. Giorgi and Feliz. Matic, Kane, Higgs, Hamlin, Lieb, Hutcherson.

2/8 hits for diamonds in the rough. And sure some of those misses didn’t pan out for injury reasons and others were certainly takes only because we needed warm bodies. But to type out that BU is a fantastic evaluator and needs to be given leeway with rankings is something I can’t agree on.

Citing guys (Matic, Kane, Higgs) from when we were in triage mode is disingenuous, at best.

Also, take Hutch out. Being unable to play because of injury is not the same.

Hamlin and Lieb were brought in as end-of-the-bench backups.

 

[Poe's Law]

I won’t get into specific details … But TJ originally committed to DePaul and to a Meanstreets guys in TA when we supposedly had MIFs guy on staff … That meant we get Ayo, TJ, THT, and Whitney … Chin went 1/4 … It was embarrassing when we lost TJ to freaking DePaul … Brad was livid …

As for THT … He wanted to come … Brad wanted him to come … He committed on his visit … It was a done deal … He was coming … Was gonna wear 25 … The whole deal … The summer “issues” were solved … Until someone said something they should not have in front of someone who was not supposed to know … And everything fell apart …

Whitney went to UK … So like Brad somewhat understood it and he obviously got terrible advice and didn’t pan out … But again … The deal was we got him too … And we didn’t …

And don’t even get me started on Michael Foster and how Chin screwed that one up as well …

 

[sacraig]

I won’t get into specific details … But TJ originally committed to DePaul and to a Meanstreets guys in TA when we supposedly had MIFs guy on staff … That meant we get Ayo, TJ, THT, and Whitney … Chin went 1/4 … It was embarrassing when we lost TJ to freaking DePaul … Brad was livid …

As for THT … He wanted to come … Brad wanted him to come … He committed on his visit … It was a done deal … He was coming … Was gonna wear 25 … The whole deal … The summer “issues” were solved … Until someone said something they should not have in front of someone who was not supposed to know … And everything fell apart …

Whitney went to UK … So like Brad somewhat understood it and he obviously got terrible advice and didn’t pan out … But again … The deal was we got him too … And we didn’t …

And don’t even get me started on Michael Foster and how Chin screwed that one up as well …

 

[BashCtIllini]

I’m all in on bringing in talent that wants to develop and ride pine in years one and two if that’s their goal as well. You don’t play 13 kids every year.

But the jury is most definitely still out on if BU and co. are better diamond in the rough finders than your average bear. Giorgi and Feliz. Matic, Kane, Higgs, Hamlin, Lieb, Hutcherson.

2/8 hits for diamonds in the rough. And sure some of those misses didn’t pan out for injury reasons and others were certainly takes only because we needed warm bodies. But to type out that BU is a fantastic evaluator and needs to be given leeway with rankings is something I can’t agree on.

why do people assume that lower rated guys are willing to sit the bench with no concerns? I think the evidence shows quite the opposite. If kids don't play, they transfer.

 

[NarrowJ]

It’s 10th based on quantity, not quality, except for Morez. If our class stayed exactly the same as it is now, by the time this class ended we would not be in the top 25 classes. Mediocrity.

If you’re okay with mediocrity, that’s on you. Last year we don’t take a McDonalds All American who WANTED to come here because “he needs to work on his shooting” but then one year later we’re accepting a kid at his EXACT SAME POSITION who is clearly not as good. Mediocrity.

Speaking of same position. Just a few months ago put all of our chips into a single player who was 100% going to come here, so we told other players to look elsewhere. He went to Baylor. All the other players at that position were now elsewhere or not interested because we told them no and now have to fill that position with someone who does not have a single second of experience playing it at a college level. The same position that McDAA played who wasnt “good enough at shooting.” But apparently the 189th recruit who plays that position is good enough. Mediocrity.

Mediocrity? It's on par (or better than, in a couple of cases) with the last 4 national championship winners. That's a fact you cannot refute.

I don't question the staff's decisions on players because I don't pretend to know as much as they do, and I also don't pretend some dude at 247 who's watched a kid 2, 3 times (and isn't a top-10 paid NCAA D1 coach) knows more than they do.

I'm not even a Brad guy, really. But this is completely nonsensical. Our recruiting is not mediocre and the results haven't been mediocre. I'd like to win in the tournament. Whoever he lines up that does it, great. If that doesn't happen, we will hire a different coach. But, I'm not going to pout and whine like a little child because player X or player Y has this many stars. You are even using qualifiers for things that haven't even happened yet ('if we don't add anyone to the class', for instance... ). So you're having to make things up out of thin air even just to get anywhere near having a sensible argument.

I hope you get feeling better.

 

[NarrowJ]

why do people assume that lower rated guys are willing to sit the bench with no concerns? I think the evidence shows quite the opposite. If kids don't play, they transfer.

We also certainly have some kind of cap on the money we can arrange for NIL for players, so that's a huge factor in how we're bringing new players on.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

why do people assume that lower rated guys are willing to sit the bench with no concerns? I think the evidence shows quite the opposite. If kids don't play, they transfer.

I was wondering this too. If upon committing a player’s comments contain a fair amount about the Illini’s development plan for him and a need to get stronger, I do think he’ll “accept” a year mostly on the bench and maybe only a lightish increase in minutes year 2. But over the last few years I can only think of Lieb and JJ this year when that seemed to be a main part of messaging. And who knows what will happen in JJ’s case. Certainly in the large majority of cases, players are more than willing to look elsewhere if their current coach isn’t playing them.

 

[tatupu70]

The missing piece on the Ayo/Kofi teams was not TSJ is was shooting.

Kofi was getting triple teamed because they could never put enough shooting on the floor.

Yes and no. Kofi also was poor at passing out of the post so he couldn't find the shooters once the triple team came.

 

[Battle89]

So what's the real issue?

And the answer to that is two things: Results and Retention. Looking back at that recruiting, we have failed to retain (some by choice, some not) the following recruits: Skyy (#34), Miller (#35), Jayden (#51), Curbelo (#61), Podz (#72), and RJ (#124). So of the 7 Top 100 recruits he's signed the past 3 years, he was only able to retain 2 of them. Now combine that with last year's chemistry, leadership, and teamwork issues by bringing in some poor locker room guys, and missing out on a big name transfer PG this season, and we've put a bow on the issue.

Dan please pin this to the top of every Brad thread

 

[Sedino]

Mediocrity? It's on par (or better than, in a couple of cases) with the last 4 national championship winners. That's a fact you cannot refute.

I don't question the staff's decisions on players because I don't pretend to know as much as they do, and I also don't pretend some dude at 247 who's watched a kid 2, 3 times (and isn't a top-10 paid NCAA D1 coach) knows more than they do.

I'm not even a Brad guy, really. But this is completely nonsensical. Our recruiting is not mediocre and the results haven't been mediocre. I'd like to win in the tournament. Whoever he lines up that does it, great. If that doesn't happen, we will hire a different coach. But, I'm not going to pout and whine like a little child because player X or player Y has this many stars. You are even using qualifiers for things that haven't even happened yet ('if we don't add anyone to the class', for instance... ). So you're having to make things up out of thin air even just to get anywhere near having a sensible argument.

I hope you get feeling better.

“On par with the last 4 national champions.” That’s objectively not true if you wanna take a look ant KUs recruits and transfers. Most importantly, they are national champions, we can’t get passed the second round. Mediocre.

“Making things up out of thin air” you do realize how ironic that is, right? We do not have anyone else for this class, that is the current reality. Saying some might join this class is in fact making stuff up.

The idiocy of thinking talent doesn’t equal success is unbelievably laughable and shows you are comfortable in mediocrity. And yes, losing in the first and second rounds every single year with the amount of money poured into this program is in fact… mediocre.

I hope you get to reaching for more than just average in your life.

 

[Ga65]

The missing piece on the Ayo/Kofi teams was not TSJ is was shooting.

Kofi was getting triple teamed because they could never put enough shooting on the floor.

Don’t agree. The PF position was the biggest weakness. Missing piece went to OSU.

 

[Sedino]

Citing guys (Matic, Kane, Higgs) from when we were in triage mode is disingenuous, at best.

Also, take Hutch out. Being unable to play because of injury is not the same.

Hamlin and Lieb were brought in as end-of-the-bench backups.

Kane and Higgs were the exact class as Giorgi and Feliz. If you count the later you have to count the former.

Hutch is fair, kid drew a horrible hand when it came to injuries.

Just because Hamlin and Lieb ended their Illini careers as just being benchwarmers doesn’t disqualify them from attempts at player development of lower rated recruits. In fact when we signed Lieb people were comparing him to Wiscy recruits that were developed into Big10 players. They were also at the same level as Giorgi. So once again, if you include one you have to include the others.

 

[cookie86]

So does it look like we’re getting Jeremiah fears?

 

[Umit9]

Welcome to the Illini, Jase Butler! Best of luck this year.

Go Illini

 

[skyIdub]

I wonder how long Lou would have lasted in this environment?

Entitlement, What have you done for me lately, Results NOW.

We don't care what it costs. We don't care how ridiculous it sounds when you apply logic. We just want what we want...and we want it now.

America!! F Yeah!!

 

[thefalcon5]

Citing guys (Matic, Kane, Higgs) from when we were in triage mode is disingenuous, at best.

Also, take Hutch out. Being unable to play because of injury is not the same.

Hamlin and Lieb were brought in as end-of-the-bench backups.

And Giorgi was a known instant starter? What happens if Butler or Jakstys don’t pan out, were they brought in as end of bench guys? If so, and they become all big ten players, are we allowed to cite them as we do Giorgi? There’s some narrative fitting going on here.

I just think it’s ridiculous that we praise BU and the assistants as fantastic evaluators of talent and throw out stars or rankings because of it. I’ll settle for yet to be determined but they haven’t earned that title. Yet.

 

[RockfordIllini]

If we really are in a good spot for Fears, I think this move makes sense as Lewis and Fears are both scoring, lead guard types. Roster balance and having complementary vs redundant pieces is important. Unless you are UK or Duke and chock full of 5 stars, the college kids just aren’t good enough to just roll the ball out there with the 5 best players you can find. And even with the blue bloods that’s generally true absent transcendent talents like Zions or ADs.

As far as the ranking, the staff and, in particular, Chester, seem to be able to ID talent early. We didn’t get him, but we were in early on Cam Whitmore well before he got that 5th star. Jackstys looked like a reach when we took him but his rating has since come up to CoHawk/Trent/Luke levels. Will see where Butler winds up.

A Fears/Morez/Jackstys/Butler class would be really good IMO. 2 potential stars and 2 developmental pieces, all of whom seem to project as 3-4 year college players (both Morez and Fears seem undersized for the NBA). Challenge will be keeping everyone together.

We land a plus point guard and some shooting in the portal after next year to add to our nucleus and incoming class, program is in a good spot IMO.

 

[NarrowJ]

“On par with the last 4 national champions.” That’s objectively not true if you wanna take a look ant KUs recruits and transfers. Most importantly, they are national champions, we can’t get passed the second round. Mediocre.

“Making things up out of thin air” you do realize how ironic that is, right? We do not have anyone else for this class, that is the current reality. Saying some might join this class is in fact making stuff up.

The idiocy of thinking talent doesn’t equal success is unbelievably laughable and shows you are comfortable in mediocrity. And yes, losing in the first and second rounds every single year with the amount of money poured into this program is in fact… mediocre.

I hope you get to reaching for more than just average in your life.

You sure liked to lean on 247's ranking methodology until it didn't align with your agenda.

How can we possibly act as if we won't add anyone else to next year's class? We are going to add one more HS player and likely 3-4 incoming transfers. That's 4, likely 5, more players. You're basing your entire argument off of the premise that we are going to have 8 total players on our roster next year. That's insane.

We simply cannot afford NIL-wise to send 13 Michael Jordan's out there. There must be developmental pieces and role players. Just go look at any roster and you'll find them. Duke, Kansas, whoever.

 

[MDchicago]

Welcome to the Illini, Jase Butler! Best of luck this year.

Go Illini

Jase also may have the fancy footwork needed to challenge Giorgi on the dance floor... 7 yo on Today Show (starting around 0:15).

(Pretty sure, but not certain, it's our Jase. Name, age and location (e.g., Marin Co.) seem to fit.)

 

[illinistephen]

2023 UConn - 13 players, no 5 stars, and supposed 'glue guys' = National Champs
2022 Kansas - 13 players, no 5 stars, and supposed 'glue guys' = National Champs
2021 Baylor - 13 players, no 5 stars, and supposed 'glue guys' = National Champs
2020 No Tourney
2019 Virginia - 13 players, no 5 stars, and supposed 'glue guys' = National Champs

Thinking on this even more, I looked at the 10 highest rated in-state 247 recruits from 2011-2022. 6 were 1st team AA, 4 were starters on a NC team, and 1 picked IL. So I think something is going on there. But at the same time, the two most recent on this "best 10" list, Steward and Christie, were the least impactful. Which in a round about way conforms to the above list. So on the flip side, maybe there is something new going on there too.