Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[NarrowJ]

Ok, are you the moderator or something? I can be snarky if I want. Deal with it.

If anything, what you're showing us is a testament to how good TSJ is/was and folks should realize that. Why we need to compare Tre White to arguably the most dominant player ever to put on an Illinois uniform is beyond me. Tre White can be a really good player for us and while still not having to be TJ.

 

[BashCtIllini]

Yeah, that’s obvious. The op cherry picked the worse year to amplify the point, so I did in kind

No, the OP didn't. He, being me, took his career 3pt shooting % which is 28.6%. Had I wanted to cherry-pick and use his Fr numbers, that would have been 26.5%. Which if anyone shoots that badly, they should be removed from the team before the season is over.

 

[HensonHall71]

No, the OP didn't. He, being me, took his career 3pt shooting % which is 28.6%. Had I wanted to cherry-pick and use his Fr numbers, that would have been 26.5%. Which if anyone shoots that badly, they should be removed from the team before the season is over.

So we never would have seen Coleman Hawkins’ career as an Illini given he shot:
23%
29%
28%
His first three years here

 

[BashCtIllini]

Did we seek Coleman out as a Jr? Again, what is the point of this? I agree, Coleman made a big leap in his shooting his 4th year in our system. What does that have to do with Tre White?

The fact remains, if Tre White is going to be a Terrence Shannon replacement, he's going to have to greatly improve his shooting.

 

[Fan Since '70]

sorry, Jakstys

 

[Combo]

So we never would have seen Coleman Hawkins’ career as an Illini given he shot:
23%
29%
28%
His first three years here

And his leap in % his final year was in large part due to better shot selection. He always had a solid release.

I haven't seen much of White, so I don't know what his form looks like.

 

[PasadenaIllini]

So we never would have seen Coleman Hawkins’ career as an Illini given he shot:
23%
29%
28%
His first three years here

That comparison could not possibly be more dishonest. CH was a 4/5 for us, whereas the original conversation was about the SG/wing positions. There are completely different shooting requirements to be effective at those positions on a basketball court.

 

[phats22]

The all-in-one metrics clearly favor Shannon by far- I mention those last since they can be unreliable for various reasons, but when the gap is that big, it's more likely there's a real difference.

View attachment 34970

i mean,

2019-20 TT was 18-13 with

2023-24 Louisville was 8-24 with

 

[nichi]

No, the OP didn't. He, being me, took his career 3pt shooting % which is 28.6%. Had I wanted to cherry-pick and use his Fr numbers, that would have been 26.5%. Which if anyone shoots that badly, they should be removed from the team before the season is over.

So Terrence Shannon Jr. should have been removed from TT before his freshman season was over?

 

[nichi]

...and since you mention "single digits" points/game and which banana the guy is, we're comparing 12.3pts/gm from a guy who didn't stand out on a bad team vs 9.8pts/gm from a guy who was as good as any of his teammates on a decent team. I'll easily take Shannon between those.

likely there's a real difference.

View attachment 34970

I am going to concede TJ is a better basketball player. He might be in the top 10 I've seen at Illinois spanning 61 years.

One thing though, I am not sure it is easier to standout on a team like Louisville.

With the right coaching, better teammates, and better shot selection, perhaps White can improve his three point percentage?

 

[Tables@EddieMunster]

Lol Tre White is getting the Bill Brasky treatment on Loyalty,

 

[BashCtIllini]

Texas Tech would have been in the right to do so. And add a shot in the pills just for good measure.

Yes, because I literally meant you should kick someone off the team for bad shooting.

 

[derrick6]

My point still stands. TJs 1st two years 30.7 vs 28.6

A 2 year career vs 5 years…

 

[ever]

I am going to concede TJ is a better basketball player. He might be in the top 10 I've seen at Illinois spanning 61 years.

One thing though, I am not sure it is easier to standout on a team like Louisville.

With the right coaching, better teammates, and better shot selection, perhaps White can improve his three point percentage?

I'm sure there are examples all over the place regarding players on bad teams. As one anecdotal extreme, Curry had no problem standing out on Davidson against tournament competition.

White might be in the other category where the team brought him down.

I'm also not hung up on his 3pt%. There are lots of ways to be an efficient scorer, and Shannon did that by getting to the line even when his 3pt% wasn't good. Unfortunately White hasn't yet been able to do that enough.

And White certainly might get better, but that was my original point- he will need to get better (at least produce better results).

 

[nichi]

That comparison could not possibly be more dishonest. CH was a 4/5 for us, whereas the original conversation was about the SG/wing positions. There are completely different shooting requirements to be effective at those positions on a basketball court.

The words were anyone who shoots that poorly, not any SG/wing. Also, Hawkins is a point forward / stretch 4/5 that hangs out behind the arc and shoots threes. In the old days they would accuse him of drifting. Granted, he didn't shoot a ton of threes his first year ...

 

[Poe's Law]

Lol Tre White is getting the Bill Brasky treatment on Loyalty,

 

[OrangeKrush1981]

I am thinking we are getting some weapons for next year ... sorry, Pru, but I had to do it ...

 

[hooraybeer]

 

[RabidDawgClassic]

My in-house expert has once again provided a pronunciation guide for Illinois' Eastern European pursuits. Here's hoping her efforts are truly needed in the Illini fandom this time.

 

[HensonHall71]

That comparison could not possibly be more dishonest. CH was a 4/5 for us, whereas the original conversation was about the SG/wing positions. There are completely different shooting requirements to be effective at those positions on a basketball court.

LOL - I think applying meaningless labels to positions is the dishonest part

Coleman shot 4 threes a game at 28%
White shot 2.7 threes a game at 29.9%

Who’s shooting hurt the team more? I’ll let you do the math. The point is players can improve shooting with better shot selection- White shot 36% on spot up threes last year for example, so if he has to force fewer threes which he should on a better team his % will likely improve next year

 

[Cravingschampaign]

I think White is the real deal. Obviously a gifted athlete, how tall is he?

6 foot 7 inches!

 

[Cravingschampaign]

LOL - I think applying meaningless labels to positions is the dishonest part

Coleman shot 4 threes a game at 28%
White shot 2.7 threes a game at 29.9%

Who’s shooting hurt the team more? I’ll let you do the math. The point is players can improve shooting with better shot selection- White shot 36% on spot up threes last year for example, so if he has to force fewer threes which he should on a better team his % will likely improve next year

I feel like he also took bad shots, which is what Coleman did sometimes too prior to this year with his stepback 3's,

 

[BalloonsTheElephant]

The excitement over AJ Storr was that he was seen as a plug and play type replacement for TJ. He's an extremely aggressive player going downhill to the basket and loves to initiate contact to get to the line.

Comparing anyone else we may get to TJ is pointless as our offense will be completely different. Mayor Humdinger can fill the Domask role, but our offense will be unrecognizable from what we did last year. We have a real PG and true C. Maybe Tre can fill TJ's slasher role and KJ can give us outside scoring and more of a facilitator off the ball when Boswell is in.

Removing TJ and not getting AJ basically brings us back to square one with our offense. I trust the Underwoods to figure it out.

 

[illinifan1987]

I get that it's easier to respond with snark than a constructive counterpoint, but I'll try to ignore it.

I didn't say he "won't" be as good. I said it would take a decent step up in "results" to be as good. I think many people overvalue points/gm and undervalue efficiency (adjusted for usage) and/or other contributions. Some players have all the potential/talent/flash in the world, but until they become efficient at scoring (or deliver something else to make up for it), their measurable contribution is not as high as many people think.

Here's a comparison of freshman Shannon with sophomore White. Shannon was much more efficient on similar usage (slightly more attempts when factoring in the attempts that lead to free throws) and with substantially more steals and slightly more blocks (moderately more blocks when looking at % of opponent 2pt shots blocked). His minutes were lower, but high enough that he was playing against legitimate competition rather than garbage time. White did have a higher 3pt% and identical 2pt%, but Shannon still outscored White per possession due to getting to the line and taking fewer 3pt shots. While also committed fewer fouls. The all-in-one metrics clearly favor Shannon by far- I mention those last since they can be unreliable for various reasons, but when the gap is that big, it's more likely there's a real difference.

View attachment 34970

Do one with freshman Skyy vs Tre. Does quitting on your team after 2 months come into play?

 

[Brosky]

I'm sure there are examples all over the place regarding players on bad teams. As one anecdotal extreme, Curry had no problem standing out on Davidson against tournament competition.

White might be in the other category where the team brought him down.

I'm also not hung up on his 3pt%. There are lots of ways to be an efficient scorer, and Shannon did that by getting to the line even when his 3pt% wasn't good. Unfortunately White hasn't yet been able to do that enough.

And White certainly might get better, but that was my original point- he will need to get better (at least produce better results).

I think we thought much the same waiting for Shannon to come aboard as a junior. We knew about his talent, but as a junior he wasn't nearly as good as he was his senior year.