Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#126      
skyIdub
With regard to these young AC's, analytics are fine over the course of 25-30 games, or even multiple seasons.


Where analytics driven gameplans/rosters/rotations aren't going to work very well are one off single games against opponents you don't have much data from, nor much time to watch video.

These coaches need years of experience and knowledge to make single game plans and in game adjustments to have success during the NCAA Tournament.

This makes sense with our seasonal success within the B1G, while having some pretty obvious difficulties in the NCAA Tournament, and other single game scenarios.

Just one perspective.
 
#127      
WolfpackIllini
RockfordIllini said:
To me both our offensive and defensive scheme scream that we are overly reliant on analytics/computer modeling. We don’t observe what the team is doing overall and game to game and adjust.

On offense, 3 points is more than 2 so we recruit shooters and shoot a high volume of 3s to outscore our opponent. Nevermind we constantly shot under 30% from 3 for games and often shot a very high percentage from 2, meaning analytically the 2 pointers were the more efficient shot (prime example being the first half against Duke where we shot like 67% from 2 and o-fer from 3). The computers say shoot a lot of 3’s, so shoot a lot of 3s we will. Nevermind that we can’t make them.

And on defense we play drop coverage to a fault because computers think mid range 2s are the worst shot to take. Nevermind if that’s the strength of our opponent like Sparty or Desmond Claude. We are just going to let them bury 12 footers all night. And that’s just game to game. We also don’t adjust our schemes to play to our player’s strengths. Kylan is so strong, and has such quick hands and feet he is one of the best on ball defenders in the country. It is a waste to have him constantly trailing his man. And it seems to me alot of our defense is predicated on guys avoiding screens a la Trent, DaMonte, Ayo, etc. But then we’ve also emphasized positional size, and bigger guys are just easier to screen. So we are constantly at a disadvantage because our bigger bodied players are getting picked off. If we are going to recruit positional size, we should switch more on defense.

So I think analytics are great and we should incorporate them and they do work in the aggregate as evidenced by the fact that we are near to the top in BIG wins the last 6 years or whatever it is. But if we aren’t able or willing to make adjustments based on matchups, personnel etc it does put a cap on how far we can go IMO. When Pope sees we are parking our center at the free throw line and so just runs a ball screen for his 45% three point shooter 25 feet from the basket so he gets any shot he wants and we don’t adjust, that tells me that we are playing the games on a computer vs what is actually happening on the court.
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Great post.
Covers a lot of what I see when I watch, and scratch my head all too often.
 
#128      
the juiceman cometh
WolfpackIllini said:
I dunno, maybe my indulgence in Orange KoolAid has me over-estimating our players?
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Probably
WolfpackIllini said:
But KJ and WR are top-10 in the draft,
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For one, there is a decent chance neither is top 10, and WR hasn't been top ten on a single mock draft. But they are both first rounders and quite possibly both lottery picks.

But where you get drafted does not directly correlate with college basketball production. If it did, then BU should be hailed as a generational coach. TSJ, Ayo, and Kofi were all top-3 players in the entire NCAA. They went late first round, 2nd round, and undrafted. Domask was all Big Ten. Undrafted.

And these guys were Freshmen. The talent was there, but so was the freshmenness.
WolfpackIllini said:
Tomi not far behind, and KB was possibly our best player at the end of the year.
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Pretty far behind I'd say. Never saw him mocked higher than mid-second round.
 
#130      
FI_890526
Players and potential recruits don't really have a problem with Hamer or Tyler Underwood.

It's not about who IS on the staff. A few problems arise with coaches and handlers in regards to who ISN'T on the staff.

Need a good hire this offseason, preferably relatively soon.
 
#134      
SweetLuh
Illiniguy13 said:
All SEC guy, old, critical player on an excellent Auburn squad, 38% from 3. Y'all are insane
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Head case whose game is dependent on others in my opinion. Also will be way overpriced. Wouldn’t touch him and wouldn’t want him in my locker room. But again, I don’t know ball……
 
#135      
djkirkpatrick22
FI_8905 said:
Players and potential recruits don't really have a problem with Hamer or Tyler Underwood.

It's not about who IS on the staff. A few problems arise with coaches and handlers in regards to who ISN'T on the staff.

Need a good hire this offseason, preferably relatively soon.
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So the TA hit is a big one? Or are you referring to these kids wanting us to hire handlers and AAU coaches alike?
 
#137      
I-L-L 1318
EmeraldCityIllini said:
I'm not trying to be snarky, but if Tyler Underwod truly does run the entire offense, I'm actually kind of impressed a 28-year old can run a Kenpom top-15 offense in college hoops - especially if our frosh superstar played half the year hurt. I also thought we scored a ton of layups on OOB plays under the hoop... *ducks

I'd love Nate Johnson as a 2-guard paired with a big-money wing by the way.
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That high stack set they ran gave them some bunnies.
 
#140      
FI_890526
djkirkpatrick22 said:
So the TA hit is a big one? Or are you referring to these kids wanting us to hire handlers and AAU coaches alike?
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Anderson situation hurt, but it would be okay if they had another guy with some local ties.

Part of the problem was Underwood not being all that personally involved with recruiting and letting AC's have "their guys". That has mostly been fixed. Now go hire another recruiter.
 
#142      
Emerson Bigguns
WolfpackIllini said:
A good coach (and/or team leader) will make his team better than the sum of its parts.
It just doesn't seem to me that our team has been playing anywhere near the sum of its parts

I dunno, maybe my indulgence in Orange KoolAid has me over-estimating our players?
But KJ and WR are top-10 in the draft, Tomi not far behind, and KB was possibly our best player at the end of the year.
So I don't think I am over estimating anything, am I?
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I think many of us are under-estimating the impact of having one of the youngest teams in college basketball, with almost no continuity, and a many different starting lineups due to injury, illness, and ineffectiveness.

All of those things are going to work against synergy.

After a season of playing 4, 5th year seniors heavy minutes, a rebuilding year was unavoidable, even if coaches wanted to call it a re-load. It was what it was.

Keeping Tomi, Boswell, Ty, Hum, and Jake will give the team a nice head start on working toward solving those issues.
 
#143      
EmeraldCityIllini
FI_8905 said:
Anderson situation hurt, but it would be okay if they had another guy with some local ties.

Part of the problem was Underwood not being all that personally involved with recruiting and letting AC's have "their guys". That has mostly been fixed. Now go hire another recruiter.
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Makes total sense. Can definitely see why that leads to bruised feels for AC’s whose guys might be recruited over and doesn’t help with retention when coaches go elsewhere. Great insight.
 
#144      
skyIdub
Excellent Def Con 3 mobilization Insiders!

Meanwhile 0440 is hunkered down and wants none of it!:ROFLMAO:

ChbZFV.gif
 
#145      
djkirkpatrick22
On the nepotism case. Didn't Tyler start (or maybe just played some extended minutes) some games here and the reasoning was, "because he knew Brad's offense?" Sorry, but he was a D3 player, lol.

As for coaching, I'm okay with him being our 5th assistant for the price, but not coaching our offense... However, the other two should be replaced... Are Geoff and O okay with the situation?
 
#147      
jsmoke2215
jacekpardol said:
We need to replace TWO first round NBA picks so in your estimation Sarr > Riley + KJ? Not sure where you're getting this ceiling projection from, logically.

Also Tre + Rez >>>> than Big Z

We have a ton of work to do if you want Big 10 champ aspirations.
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KJ and Riley may be first round picks, but they certainly weren't first round contributors for the vast majority of the season. Let's not rewrite history to make it worse on ourselves.
 
#148      
Emerson Bigguns
EmeraldCityIllini said:
Makes total sense. Can definitely see why that leads to bruised feels for AC’s whose guys might be recruited over and doesn’t help with retention when coaches go elsewhere. Great insight.
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As much as people like to bemoan the juicier nepotism angle, didn't Tim leave right after we made O the second highest paid assistant in college basketball?

Wasn't Tim's exit much more closely related to the most Obviou$$$ reason?

I have little doubt Morez' departure was heavily influenced by a guy getting paid by the U of I to coach basketball, but I tend to believe it had a lot more to do with who wasn't there than who was. (please see the disclaimer below)
 
#149      
HensonHall71
UDillini said:
really no one has any interest in CBM?? we say get old stay old.. but then say this guy is too old.. we want an athlete who can score but he doesn't cut it? 18 points in a super physical national title game on 4-7 from three - KJ and likely Will would've been eaten alive in a game like that
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Yeah, a fifth year senior 6-7 guard who's a great defender, very good three point shooter and steps up in big games - we don't want him :)

I don't like his antics on the court sometimes too - but winning cures a lot of ills and he would help us win, no doubt. He's also going to have everyone after him, so I'm sure his price will get to more than we are willing to pay, so I don't even think he's worth debating on here.
 
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