Tevo
- Wilmette, IL
Are we still freaking out about who is getting the Bosmans-Verdonk minutes during mop-up time?
Isn't it the Reverend Hon. Dr. Bosmans-Verdonk by now?
Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread
Isn't it the Reverend Hon. Dr. Bosmans-Verdonk by now?
ChiefGritty
- Chicago, IL
Benjamin Bosmans-Verdonk | People | Sidley Austin LLP
For those who are unaware, Sidley Austin is one of the most high-powered elite law firms in the country.
That's all well and good, but can he shoot the 3?Benjamin Bosmans-Verdonk | People | Sidley Austin LLP
www.sidley.com
For those who are unaware, Sidley Austin is one of the most high-powered elite law firms in the country.
He played 75 minutes, mostly with the other deep reserves. I couldn't determine his ceiling.
Battle89
- Cary-Grove, the better Trojan team
Agree.
I hope people don't take this the wrong way, because I love Ty, and really respect the good attitude and team support he gave the last two years. But I have never seen such elevation on this site for someone who has not played a minute in two seasons.
While he was good three seasons ago, our team dynamic and roster construction is totally different from when Ty started. And he could not shoot back then and I have seen nothing here to indicate that has changed, other than blind hope.
It's obvious the negative impact NIL has had on these schools. However, more times than not it benefits the player. If a guy like Juke Harris remained at WAKE, chances are he would not develop like he will at Michigan. Same goes for Coleman.
There's a major difference in being a stats guy on an awful team, verses the best player on a championship contender.
Having players 8-10 isn't really about having a good 10th man. It is about having someone who might develop and become a 4th-5th man. Last year the team was great because the 9th man coming in ended up being the best player on the team. That petrovic slid out of the rotation was at least in part that Wagler just balled out and took 36 minutes out of the rotation. Petrovic wasn't as good as people had hoped, too. If petrovic was awesome too, illinois would have played one deeper. This time last year, people thought Brandon Lee was going to be the best freshman on the team (outside of the baltic guys).
I was showing that other top teams had a decent number of upperclassmen at #7-9 in playing time. Many of them were returning players rather than transfers, so it doesn't prove we could have brought someone in for that role, but it is at least possible- in addition to the two transfers in my list above (both were starters from mid-majors), we also did that with Z last year (started half his games and was relatively proven).
I also wondered about the rankings of the freshman who played decent minutes on these deep teams:
Michigan: #18
UConn: #15, #28
Duke: #3, #19, #20, #32
Houston: #6, #13, #16, #77 (red-shirt from prior class)
Purdue: #83 (but international), Unranked (red-shirt from prior class)
So it's at least possible to get a 9-man rotation with returnees, transfers (at least relatively proven), and top 35 freshman. We currently have 7-8 such players (depending on whether you include Morillo at #47), so it's reasonable to think there might be (or have been) another 1-2 guys out there willing to compete with #100 freshman for a bench role.
It wasn't just that Keaton was a surprise. Petrovic didn't even play when we were down Boswell and Stoj
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
You forgot the PE, Esq., LEED at the end.
I think we can bring someone in for this role, but its going to be a Jake Davis type (guy from lower tier school who is good enough to move up, but not good enough to demand/expect more than the role provides, which is you're not really in the rotation at all unless someone is injured).
But, for what Jake Davis gave us in his year as 9th man, I see no reason an Ethan Brown or Zavier Zens couldn't match that either. Just play 5-10 minutes with minimal mistakes, make open shots, and we'll try our best to hide you on defense. Jake shot 34% from 3 his first year here as 9th man so they don't even have to burn up the nets on their limited attempts to be valuable in that role.
That is 100% true. My point wasn't really about petrovic. It is that people thought he was going to be a rotation guy and he ended up not being good enough. So when someone says that player x isn't needed because we only go 8 deep they are missing the fact that last year one of those "8" was petrovich until he turned out not to be.
I'd love for the Coleman and Morillo to be great next year. If they are, then that 9th man doesn't matter. However, if they aren't great, and one of the other random guys people think cannot crack the rotation is better than advertised, the season could still be salvaged.
Zens all day everyday as a complimentary role player in this offensive system over Ty/Lee. I see significantly more upside for him in what we've established. I think he's a PERFECT fit here in what we'll ask him to do.
Ty/Lee absolutely made the correct choices. And so did the staff. Glad the staff was upfront with them. Hope they both kill it at that level and get paid the following year like DGL.
Ty/Lee absolutely made the correct choices. And so did the staff. Glad the staff was upfront with them. Hope they both kill it at that level and get paid the following year like DGL.
The romancing of Ty’s performance and abilities from 3 yrs ago on this thread are at cottage cheese levels!
He was probably offered a 9th man and didn’t want it. He got a degree and landed somewhere else where he’ll get PT. Great for him. Let it go.
It's a good thing the staff has the summer to figure out if they want to add a Euro.
I wouldn't use our 2024-25 season as an one worth replicating. We're aiming to be a/the top team, not #20.
Jake came in as a low usage starter from a low major, and (while he was a great 5th/6th man his second year) I think we can aim a bit higher for someone competing with the #47 freshman for #8 on the team. The two transfers that were #7-9 in the rotations of last year's elite teams were Malachi Smith and Kalifa Sakho (quality starters on mid-majors). I'm pretty sure both were brought in for depth rather than starting roles, and a player of that caliber definitely raises the floor for our top 8 (and gives us lots of options to see if anyone sticks at #9). I'm thinking a 4 to give us more front court depth, though a defensive guard might be useful too.
I get the argument that between all our freshman, we can expect 1 starter and 1-2 solid bench players, giving us 8-9 guys. But none of Torvik's top 5 (plus #9 UConn) had a true freshman outside the top #32 play more than 10% of the time. And the top 30 freshman weren't all good enough to be starters on elite teams (or even bench players in many cases):
#7 Arenas (USC): very inefficient, but missed half the year with injury
#13 Harwell (Hou): apparently good on defense, but 30% of minutes, terrible shooter, and out of the rotation by end of season
#19 Khamenia (Duke): 50% of minutes, decent bench player
#21 Jasper Johnson (UK): 30% of minutes (less at the end of season), not efficient
#22 Abaev (Cinc): 30% of minutes, inefficient, out of the rotation after returned from mid-year injury
#24 Aristode (AZ): 30% of minutes, decent bench player on paper, but mostly out of the rotation by end of season
#26 Able (NC St): 50% of minutes, decent bench player
#27 Adams (Maryland): starter, but very inefficient, probably would've been decent in the right bench role
#28 Reibe (UConn): 35% of minutes, out of the rotation by end of season
#29 Ingram (Florida): 8% of minutes, even less by end of season
#30 White (Syr): 35% of minutes, decent bench player
The chances of getting a starter dropped off pretty fast at #19, so Coleman is on the right side of that, but just barely. Even half of the #20-30 guys fell way out of the rotation by the end of the year or were on bad enough teams that they would have on an elite team.
I'm not trying to criticize our roster. I trust our staff. I just think it's very reasonable to think there's room for one more guy (reasonably proven, i.e. mid-major starter or major contributor) competing for #5-7 in the rotation.
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robertgoulet
IL Board Resident Crooner
- Austin, TX
Surely I’m not old enough that Kenneth Lampley is the son of Sean Lampley…
pruman91
- interviewing new NL's daily....I really really am
works for me and they have the summer to figure out better on who plays better at the 9-10-11 roles........I wouldn't be surprised at all to see another new player being a higher than expected performer at this level....................
Not sure that JJ isn’t slated for emergency role. Think he could fit the 5-10 min role but would worry if one of three goes down for several games. Certainly would like to see some depth as it is very possible to lose all three bigs in another year.
Not expert but Petro didn’t fit the system they adapted. Don’t think that was because of his ability but his fit. Not unlike Ty. Could have been entirely different if Petro was available early and Wagner was not given the opportunity. Vaaks fits the offensive system replacement for Wagner. This team will be good because it fits what they want to do rather than adapt to what they have to do with the talent they have. Rating systems can rate skill but not fit. Reason a team of five stars are usually good but usually not great.
We are between 1st and 5th in pretty much all preseason lists for next year so I’m not sure what this “not #20” talk is. The 9/10th man isn’t going to torpedo our season, I mean they’ll be lucky to get spot minutes.
To me, it’s just nice to be worried about who is going to pass the ball to Blake Fagbemi when it’s 92-57 with 36 seconds left instead of whether or not we’re NIT bound with RayJ Dennis headed to Baylor.
It's not about adding a 9/10th guy. It's about adding a piece that pushes Davis or Morillo down to that 9th man role.
Maybe, I just have higher expectations but I think when you look at what Illinois has retained and added already and compare them to the rest of the NCAA that it's time to push your chips in and go all in on competing for a title.
I love the retention and the returnees but it's easy to to just look at the final four appearance and forget that the team struggled in February. They got an awesome draw and took advantage but wins over Penn, VCU, and Iowa in March aren't super impressive, but a lot of the issues that showed up in February still exist(lack of defense/athleticism on the perimeter) and an offense that tends to stagnate and rely on a lot of one-on-one and iso stuff to create shots(look at how the ball stagnated against UConn).
Injuries happen and freshman don't translate all the time. What happens if Coleman or Morillo don't pan out right away? What happens if Vaaks gets injured? Does anyone think that you're going to beat Duke, Florida, or UConn playing Jake Davis significant minutes?
Nothing is going to guarantee success but the NCAA looks wide open and adding a significant piece at guard could be the different between seriously competing with the likes of Duke or ending up like Purdue and having a successful season but still end up being kind of disappointing and never a true threat.
Ty would've likely been our best, most versatile defender and 2nd best rebounder if he had stayed. That alone would've gotten him more than spot minutes at the end of the bench. He probably wanted to be a for-sure starter, which they couldn't promise him, so he left.
I keep reading stuff about having a 9th or 10th man or whatever. Everyone knows Brad prefers an 8 man rotation, BUT, in my opinion, you really need 9 or 10 guys who are CAPABLE of giving you minutes. Injuries and bizarre stuff IS going to happen. That’s just reality. You can never have too much depth.
Who knows? Maybe those pieces are already here in Zavier Zens, Ethan Brown, or Landon Davis.
But you have to have those guys deep on the bench in case the injury bug hits you hard.
Who knows? Maybe those pieces are already here in Zavier Zens, Ethan Brown, or Landon Davis.
But you have to have those guys deep on the bench in case the injury bug hits you hard.
There is a limit to the NIL available. It is not the university that goes all in but the donors who are going to pay the nil. We have football competing for those dollars. There is also the issue of finding a piece that fits and won't be a locker room issue. There is more to it than just buying the best players available - ask Louisville or Kentucky or BYU how that went for them last year. And unless you have one of the largest budgets, you have to take your chances that some bad things don't happen. It is not easy to get to a final four, let alone win a title, even if everything goes right. There is a team of very smart and savvy people trying their best to field the best team possible. If you have a couple of million to spare, I am sure they would take you up on it and add another piece assuming one is available that makes sense but that is a big if.
We had 8 high major starting level players last year - two of which were untested freshman that worked out. So that means we went into the year with 6 starting level players including Davis and Humrichous. We have 6 again this year - Mirk, Tommie, Z, Davis, Stoj and Vaaks. Compare those 6 to Tommie, Z, Davis, Stoj, Humrichous and Boz - four of whom are back with another year of experience. We are in as good or better shape going into the summer as we were last year. We are going to need a couple of freshman to contribute, but not to the same extent as last year because the established players can take up that burden.
Team construction is a balancing act and an art, not a science. We won't know the results until they play out. Have to just relax and look forward to what that will be.
And by the way, these freshman that we will be giving the opportunity to compete will be the backbone of the team in a year or two.
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