Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

[RabidDawgClassic]

I guess, technically, you could call Podz a “recruiting bust” because he didn’t play much his freshman season. Without that criteria, we should probably wait at least one more season to see what Petro and Lee do or do not accomplish.

 

[CoalCity]

What would you have done differently? Play Boswell and Petrovic at the 1/2 spots, move Keaton to the 3, and Andrej/Jake come off the bench

So the riddle here is how do you get him on the floor with Wagler and Boswell? He wasn't supplanting either of those two players, and that doesn't mean he isn't a good basketball player (verbatim what you stated). A 5 minute stretch vs UCLA doesn't answer that question. There's a much larger sample size of him playing in EuroLeague averaging 14 & 7 that proves otherwise.



Calling a player a bust is literally a headline example of a contentious comment LOL.

Not when you pay a guy high 6 figures and he can't even get on the floor and on the rare occasions that he did he looked like a junior high kid (both stature and skills wise) playing the seniors at IMG. That's a bust. That's not contentious in the least. Its a fact.

 

[NarrowJ]

Not when you pay a guy high 6 figures and he can't even get on the floor and on the rare occasions that he did he looked like a junior high kid (both stature and skills wise) playing the seniors at IMG. That's a bust. That's not contentious in the least. Its a fact.

Placing a negative label like “bust” on a player is contentious by definition of the word. But I’m not here to quibble over semantics and what words mean.

Likely most other situations I’d agree: bust. But the nuance here is Keaton combined with Mihailo not being able to play any other position except the one occupied by a top 5 pick for 34 minutes per game and another Senior for the other 6.

Edit: if people are just looking for something to bag on the coaching staff about, they don’t get off scot free in this situation either, because going into the season we thought Mihailo and Kylan were the backcourt and everyone mentioned how undersized it would be.

 

[wc_illini]

What would you have done differently? Play Boswell and Petrovic at the 1/2 spots, move Keaton to the 3, and Andrej/Jake come off the bench

So the riddle here is how do you get him on the floor with Wagler and Boswell? He wasn't supplanting either of those two players, and that doesn't mean he isn't a good basketball player (verbatim what you stated). A 5 minute stretch vs UCLA doesn't answer that question. There's a much larger sample size of him playing in EuroLeague averaging 14 & 7 that proves otherwise.



Calling a player a bust is literally a headline example of a contentious comment LOL.

If all this is over the word "bust", then let's set that aside since it's silly to argue over words.

If he came anywhere close to the expectations of his $, then he would have at least been a great bench option whenever Wagler or Bos rested or were hurt, and Wagler certainly could have rested more. The NCAAT was 2 months away when Bos got hurt, so his lack of playing time then tells me that the staff didn't have much hope at that point, and I don't get the impression they tried hard to retain him this offseason.

It could certainly be that he was good, but...
- was objectively a bad fit or the staff couldn't figure out how to use him effectively
- he's a slow learner
- he mentally shut down
- the time he missed at the beginning was just too much to reasonably expect him to overcome

All these are part of the recruiting/coaching equation except the last, though even that one is hard to separate from his talent, fit, and ability to get up to speed.

 

[EmeraldCityIllini]

Recruiting bust at PG you say? I thought that Wagler kid that ate up all the minutes at PG this season was pretty good for being the 261st recruit.

Petrovic didn't play limited minutes because he was a bust, he played limited minutes because Keaton was a gem.

Would be willing to wager Petro has a very productive season in the Big East this year.

The irony in demanding we have more depth and then turning around and saying highly regarded players who might not have gotten a ton of minutes are total busts and not capable of playing at all…

 

[EmeraldCityIllini]

If all this is over the word "bust", then let's set that aside since it's silly to argue over words.

If he came anywhere close to the expectations of his $, then he would have at least been a great bench option whenever Wagler or Bos rested or were hurt, and Wagler certainly could have rested more. The NCAAT was 2 months away when Bos got hurt, so his lack of playing time then tells me that the staff didn't have much hope at that point, and I don't get the impression they tried hard to retain him this offseason.

It could certainly be that he was good, but...
- was objectively a bad fit or the staff couldn't figure out how to use him effectively
- he's a slow learner
- he mentally shut down
- the time he missed at the beginning was just too much to reasonably expect him to overcome

All these are part of the recruiting/coaching equation except the last, though even that one is hard to separate from his talent, fit, and ability to get up to speed.

Probably a semantics thing - I agree.

But would you consider Podz a bust? Or more so he was a freshmen behind two very tenured Illini guards and a flamethrowing grad transfer?

Oddly enough, I consider a player like Skyy Clark more a bust than someone like Petro, even though one got minutes

 

[NarrowJ]

If all this is over the word "bust", then let's set that aside since it's silly to argue over words.

If he came anywhere close to the expectations of his $, then he would have at least been a great bench option whenever Wagler or Bos rested or were hurt, and Wagler certainly could have rested more. The NCAAT was 2 months away when Bos got hurt, so his lack of playing time then tells me that the staff didn't have much hope at that point, and I don't get the impression they tried hard to retain him this offseason.

It could certainly be that he was good, but...
- was objectively a bad fit or the staff couldn't figure out how to use him effectively
- he's a slow learner
- he mentally shut down
- the time he missed at the beginning was just too much to reasonably expect him to overcome

All these are part of the recruiting/coaching equation except the last, though even that one is hard to separate from his talent, fit, and ability to get up to speed.

I buy all of this, with caveats that (1) he was a bad fit based on being small like Boswell and not that we already had a fantastic lead guard in Keaton circa June 2025 and (2) slow learning due to language barrier as it’s been said he doesn’t communicate in English as well as Tomi/Mirk. Both things we can bag on the coaching staff about, so I’m not here to defend them and you guys are free to do so as you please.

PS, discussing of terminology seems necessary and inevitable, especially if it’s the crux of the entire discussion (bust vs not). Ton of back and forth on it gets exhausting though, for sure.

 

[Fly Illini Fly!]

But would you consider Podz a bust? Or more so he was a freshmen behind two very tenured Illini guards and a flamethrowing grad transfer?

No, because he wasn’t thought to be a huge part of that team (and wasn’t nearly the investment Petro was).

When Petro came in, the idea was he’d be one of our best players, and we paid him a lot of money to be that. Because Wagler was so awesome, him not being one of our best players is completely understandable.

But not being able to play at all — including the OT game against Wisconsin where we played six guys — is where the bust conversations come in.

 

[RollChief]

If all this is over the word "bust", then let's set that aside since it's silly to argue over words.

If he came anywhere close to the expectations of his $, then he would have at least been a great bench option whenever Wagler or Bos rested or were hurt, and Wagler certainly could have rested more. The NCAAT was 2 months away when Bos got hurt, so his lack of playing time then tells me that the staff didn't have much hope at that point, and I don't get the impression they tried hard to retain him this offseason.

It could certainly be that he was good, but...
- was objectively a bad fit or the staff couldn't figure out how to use him effectively
- he's a slow learner
- he mentally shut down
- the time he missed at the beginning was just too much to reasonably expect him to overcome

All these are part of the recruiting/coaching equation except the last, though even that one is hard to separate from his talent, fit, and ability to get up to speed.

There's got to be some way that you can apply a linear regression to this. I need to call up my old econometrics professor

 

[wc_illini]

Probably a semantics thing - I agree.

But would you consider Podz a bust? Or more so he was a freshmen behind two very tenured Illini guards and a flamethrowing grad transfer?

Oddly enough, I consider a player like Skyy Clark more a bust than someone like Petro, even though one got minutes

It's hard to know what to say about Podz, and I wasn't as tuned in at the time. Ignoring his future success, a composite #107 freshman doesn't have high enough expectations to ever be a bust in my book, while Skyy Clark is up there.

Was it a "miss" to not get more out of him and/or not retain him? Maybe he just got better his sophomore year. Maybe there were fit issues (basketball or personality), and he couldn't possibly have played that well for us- I guess that could be a "miss", but again, the stakes are different with a #107 recruit.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

Omar Payne. Cary Booth. There have been a few others but agree Petro is probably their biggest miss in the NIL era as the rumors were we made a pretty sizable investment to get him.

But in the film you can see what they saw. I still think there is an alternate universe where some combination of not having visa delays, not getting injured early on and Keaton not being an AA where Petro finds his footing and is a plus PG for us.

But identifying talent and guys who fit what we want to do does seem to be a super power. And now that rosters have expanded I think they will continue to take as many preps as they can, realizing only a few will become contributors. But from the sound of it Williams, Davis and Zens have already impressed. TBD on whether any of them turn into rotation players but all seem to be better than their rankings.

I totally agree with the first point, but I'd say during Underwood's tenure the other strength isn't as much finding guys that fit, but rather changing styles to fit the players.
Our offensive attacks in his 10 years have been wildly different. We played inside-out during the Kofi years. High paced transition->Booty ball with Marcus and TJ. Top of the key P&R/ distribute with KJ & Tomi, & Totally spread out, deliberate matchup hunting last year.

What are we doing this year? Who really knows!

They find the talent, then they figure out how to best leverage it. That is elite coaching, in my book. The secret is getting out and we are so hot right now...

 

[EmeraldCityIllini]

It's hard to know what to say about Podz, and I wasn't as tuned in at the time. Ignoring his future success, a composite #107 freshman doesn't have high enough expectations to ever be a bust in my book, while Skyy Clark is up there.

Was it a "miss" to not get more out of him and/or not retain him? Maybe he just got better his sophomore year. Maybe there were fit issues (basketball or personality), and he couldn't possibly have played that well for us- I guess that could be a "miss", but again, the stakes are different with a #107 recruit.

This is not a shot at your post, because i actually dont entirely disagree. But MAN, how far we have come by saying the stakes are not high with a top 125 (4-star recruit) not panning out. As an aside, where are you pulling him at #107 from? 247 had him as 72 nationally and is that all the far off from Petro? Sure we were excited about him, but were people on this boarding think he was like 5-star equivalent coming in?

I can't prove this until we see it - so I guess some of us Petro stans have to "eat it". But I have faith that if Wagler didn't exist, Petro would have been a middle of the pack B1G guard, and probably a top 50-60 percentile offensive guard. For that matter, im of the opinion Brandon Lee can play too.

We tie so much up into this Wisconsin game when Andrej went down 10-minutes before tip-off

 

[Fly Illini Fly!]

As an aside, where are you pulling him at #107 from? 247 had him as 72 nationally and is that all the far off from Petro?

 

[NarrowJ]

No, because he wasn’t thought to be a huge part of that team (and wasn’t nearly the investment Petro was).

When Petro came in, the idea was he’d be one of our best players, and we paid him a lot of money to be that. Because Wagler was so awesome, him not being one of our best players is completely understandable.

But not being able to play at all — including the OT game against Wisconsin where we played six guys — is where the bust conversations come in.

What would you have done differently in the Wisconsin game since this single game proved he's a bust? Petro can't play off the ball, so he's our PG and Keaton/Boswell stand in the corners during PnR and other actions and Jake sits? I don't love it.

The reason he couldn't play is because he can't play off the ball and on-ball is Keaton's job.

The irony in demanding we have more depth and then turning around and saying highly regarded players who might not have gotten a ton of minutes are total busts and not capable of playing at all…

Its crazy how adamant people are we have to use the word 'bust' to describe the situation. Like, there's no other possible way to explain the situation or any nuance whatsoever. But yeah, this irony wasn't lost on me at all LOL.

 

[EmeraldCityIllini]

View attachment 51318

Im a 247 loyalist, i think its by far the best of the options. But got it, that makes sense now - thank you for clarifying

 

[WhereDoWeStandWithStorr?]

What would you have done differently in the Wisconsin game since this single game proved he's a bust? Petro can't play off the ball, so he's our PG and Keaton/Boswell stand in the corners during PnR and other actions and Jake sits? I don't love it.

The reason he couldn't play is because he can't play off the ball and on-ball is Keaton's job.

Keaton played 44 minutes in that game. I would've loved to have given him a breather.

The one time we did take him out, Mirkovic had a bad turnover (it was probably one of his worst games).

 

[wc_illini]

What would you have done differently in the Wisconsin game since this single game proved he's a bust? Petro can't play off the ball, so he's our PG and Keaton/Boswell stand in the corners during PnR and other actions and Jake sits? I don't love it.

Bos (and Stoj) were out that game. If the staff thought Petro could offer anywhere close to his $ in value, then I think Keaton would have rested more than 36 seconds.

 

[NarrowJ]

Keaton played 44 minutes in that game. I would've loved to have given him a breather.

The one time we did take him out, Mirkovic had a bad turnover (it was probably one of his worst games).

True, and this completely blew my mind... but that Wisonsin game was the one Boswell also missed in addition to Andrej (though Boswell can play off ball, Mihailo no).

Mihailo got in the game to give Keaton a breather the week prior in the Purdue game that was also hotly contested and close throughout. No clue why he was trusted in that game with a full squad, but not in the Wisconsin game the following week.

 

[NarrowJ]

Bos (and Stoj) were out that game. If the staff thought Petro could offer anywhere close to his $ in value, then I think Keaton would have rested more than 36 seconds.

See above, he was trusted in Purdue game the week prior to give Keaton a breather with a full squad.

The fact we're trying to settle this debate using single games to stand up our arguments against probably means there isn't a clear cut answer. You want to apply the label 'bust' come hell or high water, and I think its more nuanced. I don't think we get a definitive answer either way.

 

[WhereDoWeStandWithStorr?]

Our 9th man needs to be more playable than Petro was last season.

Playable meaning able to get into games.

 

[WyattEarp]

True, and this completely blew my mind... but that Wisonsin game was the one Boswell also missed in addition to Andrej (though Boswell can play off ball, Mihailo no).

Mihailo got in the game to give Keaton a breather the week prior in the Purdue game that was also hotly contested and close throughout. No clue why he was trusted in that game with a full squad, but not in the Wisconsin game the following week.

I don’t know either. But I’m thinking it had to have been mostly a match-up thing.

 

[wc_illini]

See above, he was trusted in Purdue game the week prior to give Keaton a breather with a full squad.

Yes, for 68 seconds in the first half. Why didn't that continue? He never saw the court the rest of the season except garbage time.

The fact we're trying to settle this debate using single games to stand up our arguments against probably means there isn't a clear cut answer.

I previously said: "If he was "good" but merely overshadowed, he would have played more than 1.4mpg (including 13 DNPs) in the 22 games after Jan 8, especially given the injuries and OT games we had. That suggests the staff didn't think very much of his ability to contribute."

You want to apply the label 'bust' come hell or high water, and I think its more nuanced. I don't think we get a definitive answer either way.

I already said I don't need to argue about the label. The part I'm not going to let go of is that I'm convinced he was either not close to being worth the $ we paid him, or if he was the staff should have found more ways to use him (I also acknowledged the possibility that he couldn't get up to speed after the missed time, but I think that's at least partially a reflection of his ability/fit/coachability, plus that wasn't your argument anyway).

 

[Perry Range's Van]

If this was any other year there are 3-4 freshman that would get significant minutes. Reality with this roster is that maybe 2 of them get enough tick. We have 6 competing for those roles and 4-5 that could be the ones.

First world problems!!

 

[EmeraldCityIllini]

Our 9th man needs to be more playable than Petro was last season.

Playable meaning able to get into games.

Why

 

[the juiceman cometh]

Our 9th man needs to be more playable than Petro was last season.

Playable meaning able to get into games.

I get saying we want this, but what does it even mean to need it? As your post admits, we didn't have this thing we "need," and we made the Final Four. This is like me saying I need 10 hours of sleep a night. I'd obviously love to have that, but I also have kids and a demanding job and a minor addiction to a college sports message board so I haven't actually had a 10 hour sleep in about 9 years. And things are mostly fine.