Indiana 96, Illinois 80 POSTGAME

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#101      
Deleted member 51
We have got 12 players with maybe one above average B1G player and multiples fighting for the same spot. Not a recipe for winning season so it's time to get out of the box. Play all 12 at full throttle from start to finish, pressure defense from the tip, gambling all game long. It's not like we have anything to lose because we won't win with Hill as as our stud and 4 helping him but we might with 11 helping him. I mean run them till their legs fall off.
 
#102      
radiodj
fxstbi said:
We have got 12 players with maybe one above average B1G player and multiples fighting for the same spot. Not a recipe for winning season so it's time to get out of the box. Play all 12 at full throttle from start to finish, pressure defense from the tip, gambling all game long. It's not like we have anything to lose because we won't win with Hill as as our stud and 4 helping him but we might with 11 helping him. I mean run them till their legs fall off.
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Genius! We have a hard enough time defending as it is, so your solution is to play inferior guys more minutes, and putting them in a defensive system that doesn't allow them the opportunity to set up. Just gamble. We'd give up 100 every game.
 
#103      
Deleted member 51
radiodj said:
Genius! We have a hard enough time defending as it is, so your solution is to play inferior guys more minutes, and putting them in a defensive system that doesn't allow them the opportunity to set up. Just gamble. We'd give up 100 every game.
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You still haven't figured out we are pretty much inferior all the way to the sidelines. At least this way some of the young talent that I still hold hope for won't be wasting a season on the bench.
 
#104      
ORANGEANDBLUE2011
Take a risk!

:illinois: Definitely some positives to take from this game. Also some moments where it is best to refill your drink. Here is my next starting line up:

Lucas/ Tate
JCL/ TA
Hill/ AJ / Kipper
Black/ MF / DJ
Mav/ MT

Rotate, stay fresh, play basketball. Isn't it that easy? :cool:
 
#105      
Tevo
sunman said:
It hasn't been mentioned but Tracy was very bad in every way today. I'm kind of surprised because to me it looks mental. Which is the opposite of what I thought Tracy's issues would be.
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I have to wonder if he's got some kind of injury or something. His shot looks HORRIBLE for anyone, let alone for a guy who was shooting 58% from three for the first 10 games. What in the world?
 
#106      
Tevo
LurkLongandProsper said:
We came out in zone against a heavy 3 point shooting team with 1 consistent interior presence (Bryant) who can also shoot. That's a bad gameplan. Unless you're in favor of surprising the other coach, but the only reason that would surprise Indiana is because nobody should be coming out in a 2-3 against them. That's how you let shooters get in rhythm early.
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Our zone is bad -- half-a$$ed double teams leave both the post AND the perimeter open (thought it did get a LITTLE better in the 2nd half) -- but we're forced to use it because our man defense is even worse. We are who we thought we were.
 
#107      
Tevo
Jkat00 said:
Just got back from the game. Something that really bothers me.... we look absolutely terrible pregame. I got to my seats 50 min before tipoff. IU is running offensive drills that are similar to the offense they run and shoot 3s. They shoot game speed jumpers for 10-15 minutes before heading into the locker room. Illinois comes out and it looks like they haven't even stretched yet. They did a nonchalant layup line for about 5 minutes then went to the free for all shoot around. If others were there I'm sure they would back me up on this. This team wasn't ready to play basketball today.
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The announcers said as much, too -- that just watching the teams pre-game they would have guessed a 20-pt loss was coming. Coaches and captains are the ones that have to set the tone, and it's got to start in practice and continue through warm-ups and into the game. Apparently the team places "being loose" above "being focused" or "being intense".
 
#108      
Jkat00
Tevo said:
The announcers said as much, too -- that just watching the teams pre-game they would have guessed a 20-pt loss was coming. Coaches and captains are the ones that have to set the tone, and it's got to start in practice and continue through warm-ups and into the game. Apparently the team places "being loose" above "being focused" or "being intense".
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Pretty embarrassing when the announcers are catching on to it. Illinois looked like it was warming up to play in the Orange and Blue scrimmage. Indiana looked like it was getting ready to play an NCAA tournament game.
 
#109      
O-Bla
John Groce is in over his head. Worst coach in Illini history.

He needs to be gone 5 minutes after the season ends.
 
#110      
jrichisamazing
Jkat00 said:
Pretty embarrassing when the announcers are catching on to it. Illinois looked like it was warming up to play in the Orange and Blue scrimmage. Indiana looked like it was getting ready to play an NCAA tournament game.
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They do the same routine before every single game. I doubt that is a problem.
 
#111      
jrichisamazing
MrOizo said:
Which do you prefer, and which has upside (since we need to get better)?

Player 1: 0 for 0, FT: 0 for 0, A: 3, TO: 1, S: 0, eff: 2, usg%: 5
Player 2: 2 for 3, FT: 2 for 5, A: 4, TO: 2, S: 1, eff: 6, usg%: 25
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We don't need to get better. We need to get more consistent. We looked pretty good with Tate against VCU, NC State, BYU, and Ohio St. And other games we looked terrible with Tate. Those are the games where Lucas should definitely play. When the team needs a spark, like today.
 
#112      
TriCityBurbs
Lucas looked really tight when he first went in, and didn't try to do much but once he got about 4-5 offensive possessions in he looked like the best point guard on our team. Taking his man to the rim, playing aggressive defense (made some mistakes by overplaying but he's a freshman with limited minutes), made good decisions. Missed black when he was WIDE OPEN with about 4 minutes left made me yell at the screen. A lineup of TJL, JCL, Hill, Black/Finke and Morgan at least leaves 5 guys that can make a jump shot consistently.

Also, Kipper looked really really good defensively. Was switching with IU's 2-4's and didn't allow dribble penetration or open shots. He's the type of athlete that can guard the 2-4 with ease from what I saw. However; a few times I saw MH and TJL not give him the ball on the perimeter when he was open..maybe didn't see him, or doesn't trust him 20 feet from the basket which could be a problem and a reason why he isn't seeing as many minutes as we think he should. Kipper, TJL, Finke and DJW need to be the primary guys coming off he bench if we want to win and play fast. I'm so sick of Tate, Thorne and Jordan. They bring NOTHING to help us win. Next year JCL, Frazier, TJL, Nichols, DJW, D'mW, Pivot on the wings will be real nice. Throw in Smith and we have 5-6 legit Big Ten guards. Not to mention Finke, Black Kipper, Tilmon and hopefully another big in their as well.
 
#113      
CAHALL15
Groce sounds like Tim Beckman. "If it wasn't for ______ (portion of game), we'd be in it." Then he starts off by saying he hates moral victories only to talk about a moral victory.

The frustrating part is the unknown about our team. Do we rebound well? Do we force turnovers? Do we shoot well? Then we have inconsistency from players, too, which ties into that. The spectrum here is beat VCU by double digits or lose by 20+ to teams which are not 20 points better than us.
 
#114      
SummerofGeorge
1. Playing a top 25 Big 10 team on the road.
2. Playing a hungry team reeling from 3 straight losses
3. Horrible start out of the gate
4. This was never a predicted W on schedule
5. Fought the entire game and did not give up
6. Young guys showed some promise
7. Thorne has to be on the end of the bench

Let's get Michigan
 
#115      
orangeandbluekrush
First 5 minutes of the game was the difference. The rest of the game they played them about even. Defense wasn't very good. Abrams, Thorne, and Black are in a major funk and have to snap out of it. I was happy to see Kipper play because I believe he brings the athleticism this team needs moving forward. Have to take the good with the bad in regards to Lucas but I would much rather have him out there than Tate. Next 2 games are must wins but nothing is guaranteed in this league and with this team. I hope a shakeup in the lineup will light a fire under these guys. At some point it's not coaching. Players have to want and desire it.
 
#116      
CoalCity
jrichisamazing said:
They do the same routine before every single game. I doubt that is a problem.
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OTOH, maybe some structure, purpose and intensity during warm-ups would carry over into the game and it wouldn't take them 7-8-10 minutes to get up to game speed the way we've seen happen more than once.
 
#117      
brokensaphire
There is no excuse for playing poor defense and that is a consistent aspect of Groce's Illini teams. I am ready to question whether or not this very good man is a hinderance to the success of the program due to mediocre instructional acumen. Damn shame as it is......
 
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#118      
Hollywood
Yes but winning has to come at some point

SummerofGeorge said:
1. Playing a top 25 Big 10 team on the road.
2. Playing a hungry team reeling from 3 straight losses
3. Horrible start out of the gate
4. This was never a predicted W on schedule
5. Fought the entire game and did not give up
6. Young guys showed some promise
7. Thorne has to be on the end of the bench

Let's get Michigan
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Agree with most of these points especially Thorne (his knee is not healthy and he's too slow for BIG), but the box score is indicative of the issues (FG%, 3 FG%, rebounds). Play the guys willing to play defense all out and those with BIG athleticism (kipper, Lucas, etc.). Groce has to win at home and win/be more competitive on the road or Whitman needs to pull the hook (even potentially during the season to get jump on new hire) and go get someone that will. This is embarrassing.
 
#119      
MrOizo
jrichisamazing said:
We don't need to get better. We need to get more consistent. We looked pretty good with Tate against VCU, NC State, BYU, and Ohio St. And other games we looked terrible with Tate. Those are the games where Lucas should definitely play. When the team needs a spark, like today.
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We can agree to disagree. In my view, we need to find more offense and versatility on this team since we can't easily fix the mediocre/terrible defense. If guys like Tate can't score, they are going to need to sit a lot more. We aren't good enough defensively or in intangibles (steals, etc) for any "safe low upside" guys to continue with significant minutes.
 
#121      
Ga65
SummerofGeorge said:
1. Playing a top 25 Big 10 team on the road.
2. Playing a hungry team reeling from 3 straight losses
3. Horrible start out of the gate
4. This was never a predicted W on schedule
5. Fought the entire game and did not give up
6. Young guys showed some promise
7. Thorne has to be on the end of the bench

Let's get Michigan
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:thumb::thumb:
 
#122      
SescIllini
The comment by the poster and the commentators that Indiana appeared ready to go while the Illni didn't bothers me. If that is par for the course then that bothers me more. I stand by my position that some of the asst. coaches need to go. I'm not ready for a complete shift change and the transfers/decommits that come with it.
 
#123      
Dayman
Pack line defense

I know some teams with better athletes can get away with this but I just don't see why this is our defensive system. If you have long athletic studs or play in the MAC it works but when your players are not long and athletic and you play in a major conference it doesn't work. We don't double team the guy with the ball but also don't stay close to the guy we are guarding. We are somewhere in between, forced to close out constantly which is why we are best off the dribble so often. TJL is the only guy who got hands on passes. Deny passing lanes and if someone can't guard one on one keep subbing until you find 5 that can.
 
#124      
TCTORNADO
The injury to Mike Thorne was far worse than any of us can imagine. He's a mere part of what he was for the 8 games in the 2015-2016 season. Sort of sad since he has put in so much work to get back to that level.
 
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#125      
Dayman
I loved the fake angry technical late in the game. Then he had his arms around the players in ha huddle looking like he was supportive of them. It is like everything he does is fornappearance. He got several technicals his first year. I remember thinking it came off as he wanted to look tough and like he belonged. I think he is a really nice guy, tremendous assistant coach because he can play the good cop which fits his personality and there is nothing wrong with that, but I just don't think he is head coaching material. It sucks to feel this way because I was hoping like crazy he would succeed and stay here for 20 years
 
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