Money's not the issue.
John Groce at Illinois
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Money's not the issue.
I'm so tired of the argument that fans are hurting recruiting. Sorry, but that's a load of crap. Performance is hurting recruiting and our ability to sell the future and forge strong relationships.
Groce reallly needs to have a strong 2017 class. It's still possible - there are some favorable recruiting scenarios out there with at least 2 highly regarded legacies, a top 20 recruit at a friendly high school, some good recruits that are in state but not from the city, etc. But we need to land more than one of those guys if we want to turn this around.
So, recruiting is in Groce's hands...the fans have no control over it.
Groce reallly needs to have a strong 2017 class. It's still possible - there are some favorable recruiting scenarios out there with at least 2 highly regarded legacies, a top 20 recruit at a friendly high school, some good recruits that are in state but not from the city, etc. But we need to land more than one of those guys if we want to turn this around.
So, recruiting is in Groce's hands...the fans have no control over it.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
The coach obviously has way more impact on recruiting than what fans do, but I could make a case that fans do have *some* impact.
The fans are who put a coach on the hot seat. And a coach on the hot seat will have a harder time recruiting than a coach who's loved by the fans.
Not only that, but if a recruit happens to hop on a message board and sees that the majority of the die hard fans don't respect the coach, that obviously isn't going to help with recruiting.
I believe we're all fans here. We all want what's best for the program. But bashing the coach most likely does more harm than good.
That being said, it's a free country, this is a free message board. Everyone's free to say whatever they like (within the rules, of course).
Chilliniwek
- Chicagoland
If anyone can prove to me that what those of us write on here has actually kept a player from committing, please do so and I'll be nothing but positive.
If I were a current recruit, especially one who grew up an Illini fan and had a dream to play there, what would bother me a lot more would be a few other things.
Lack of results and watching players that seemingly don't improve all that much head the list, along with Groce's histrionics on the sideline.
I've said this before, but when I was an athlete, as soon as I got out on the court or field, I tuned out the coaches and crowd... I was focused on the game and nothing else.
This isn't a reply to any one person, just my opinion.
If I were a current recruit, especially one who grew up an Illini fan and had a dream to play there, what would bother me a lot more would be a few other things.
Lack of results and watching players that seemingly don't improve all that much head the list, along with Groce's histrionics on the sideline.
I've said this before, but when I was an athlete, as soon as I got out on the court or field, I tuned out the coaches and crowd... I was focused on the game and nothing else.
This isn't a reply to any one person, just my opinion.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
I don't think anyone's arguing that message board fans are the only factor for a particular player deciding where to play, but would you rather play for a coach who's respected and loved by his fans? Or a coach who's fans are counting down the days till he's fired?
The fans perception of a coach might not be the only factor, but it could certainly be a single factor. One of many.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Though, to add to this discussion: this is fairly pointless to discuss because it's never going to change.
Message board fans are the most emotional of all the fans. So they'll love the coach the most when he wins and hate the coach the most when he loses. And if he loses consistently for a little while, a portion of the fan base will want him fired, even though they may have loved him the year before.
Fan bases attitudes towards coaches and players change from minute to minute, game to game, season to season.
Chilliniwek
- Chicagoland
I agree with everything you've said, and of course I would rather play for a coach that was loved and respected by their fans and I even agree that it could be a perception problem if anyone who was seriously considering us came to this forum.
But I believe that young people these days rely a lot more on what's being written on the social media sites like FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc. than what they probably perceive as a bunch of old guys ranting on a site like this. Which I love, Dan. And also by what their coaches say and when on visits what our current players are tell them about the overall atmosphere.
And at the end of the season, there's only one team whose fans are completely satisfied with their coach. :thumb:
Agreed, Chill, I started on the boards when I was in HS (graduated in 07, IDKWTI and Rose's class), but twitter, IG, Tumblr, and whatever else didn't exist then, so that's where I started my obsession with fan message boards. I can't see any HS kids reading a site like this, though I'm so far removed now that I can't say that with 100% certainty.
A coach has full control. It is not that fans' reaction and feelings towards a coach are an independent event. They are the direct consequence of his performance. That is sports. Some posters are trying to convince themselves that Illini fans are a different breed but they are not. Groce is under the same amount of pressure as any other coach would be at a program of Illinois' caliber and potential.
I like Groce, I have stated it multiple times. I still think he can turn it around IF he can land a very strong 2017 recruiting class and lead Illinois to a tournament appearance next year. But he is getting paid millions to do a job. If he won't perform at that job well, fans, administration, media, etc. will naturally react negatively towards his lack of performance.
Chilliniwek
- Chicagoland
This is good to know, maybe some more of the younger set can weigh in on this. Thanks for your input.
I really have no idea what teenagers think these days, but I know they're a lot more sophisticated than when I was that age. Except for that guy who sits at the end of the bench for the Trail Blazers.
I'm going way back in the time machine here but all this talk about message boards affecting recruits is giving me ptsd flashbacks of one Mhock from the old IB.... Sorry did I just date myself there.
Chilliniwek
- Chicagoland
It's ok to date yourself, at least you know you'll have a good time!
Put me in the "I hope he succeeds and stays here for a long time, with us competing in the Tourney every year" camp. I think he has this year and likely next and then all bets are off unless there's one heck of a class coming in.
UIUC1867
- Christian County, IL
Let's see where things stand in two months.
That being said, my gut instinct tells me that Coach Groce will be gone after this season, barring a miraculous turnaround to this season which very little of me believes will happen. I think Coach Groce is a genuinely good person who wants to build something here, but he hasn't shown the results needed in recruiting, won-loss records, and NCAA tournament appearances.
In the end, the only person that matters in this situation will be the new athletic director.
That being said, my gut instinct tells me that Coach Groce will be gone after this season, barring a miraculous turnaround to this season which very little of me believes will happen. I think Coach Groce is a genuinely good person who wants to build something here, but he hasn't shown the results needed in recruiting, won-loss records, and NCAA tournament appearances.
In the end, the only person that matters in this situation will be the new athletic director.
I would NOT let JG go and then start a search. I would lock down a great coach and then let him go. yeah, understand the hiring process, etc.
+1. Coaches put themselves on the hot seat. It isn't the job of message board fans to falsely sing coaches' praises when their performance isn't up to par in case a recruit happens upon the message board to fool the recruit into thinking the fans are happy with the coach and his results. It's a results business, and JG would be the first to tell you that he hasn't been able to deliver the kinds of results he expected at UI when he took the job, both on the court and on the recruiting front, namely at the 5 and 1 spots. JG isn't happy with likely missing the Dance 3 straight years. Injuries aside, he knows he has to produce postseason results very soon, by next season, and then on a consistent basis, in order to remain at UI.
TruIllini89
Prime Сasual Dating - Genuine Ladies
- Usa
:clappy: Great post!
I know this year is disappointing, but no way he's gone after this season.
Barring surprise transfers or another rash of injuries, this team should have more pieces in place next year than any Groce Illini team, with more talent as Seniors than we have seen for a long, long time.
I wouldn't be surprised if that made the '16-'17 season make or break, though, with the potential of his job being on the line.
Tom Crean is 18 games above .500 after 8 years at Indiana. I think he is getting the program where it needs to be. The Purdue coach was rumoured to be fired a couple years ago and now he has a solid team. Giving Groce 4 years, basically seeing his first recruiting class go through. So if he doesn't land a Calipari type class he is gone, because most new coaches from a program trending downward can't right the ship that quickly.
My fear is that we will hire another coach with similar or worst results and we are just going in circles. Without injuries this year and last year I feel we are a tourney team. MSU who was ranked #1 last week doesn't have a roster that intimidates me. Add Abrams, Paul, Black (healthy), and Thorne and talent wise we are right there with them. The 2002 Illini were ranked either #1 or #2, when Lucas Johnson was injured for the year that team was not the same and he was their #6th man.
My fear is that we will hire another coach with similar or worst results and we are just going in circles. Without injuries this year and last year I feel we are a tourney team. MSU who was ranked #1 last week doesn't have a roster that intimidates me. Add Abrams, Paul, Black (healthy), and Thorne and talent wise we are right there with them. The 2002 Illini were ranked either #1 or #2, when Lucas Johnson was injured for the year that team was not the same and he was their #6th man.
lstewart53x3
- Scottsdale, Arizona
Fans typically put a coach on the hot seat before the coach is actually on the hot seat.
RichBradIllini
- Peoria
:clappy:
So what are you saying, post nothing negative when the program has been on a steep decline for 10 years and the future is iffy at best? I imagine to a person, most of us on here "hope the best for the coach, this team, our recruiting efforts and for a winning season". So far, I haven't read anything in this thread that is denigrating, rather is all seems pretty "fair and balanced" to quote a popular cable news network.
If Groce would have the roster makeup similar to Weber's at this point in his tenure I would be concerned. Groce has many quality pieces on this roster, the only thing this team is lacking is continuity in lineups and a killer instinct in the 2nd half. We have came out strong all year in the first half, just fade away in the 2nd.
It could be our HC fault completely but it also falls on his players for not executing IMO.
I firmly believe Groce will be back, regardless of the AD. Let Groce recruit the 17' class and see how the offseason plays out before you come calling for his head.
Beat tOSU today!
It could be our HC fault completely but it also falls on his players for not executing IMO.
I firmly believe Groce will be back, regardless of the AD. Let Groce recruit the 17' class and see how the offseason plays out before you come calling for his head.
Beat tOSU today!
Here's what I find so hard to believe Groce's apparent inability to 'seal the deal' on some of these kids. When I went to the parent/child camp last year (senior year of Egwu/Rice), Coach gave a closing speech to the group that had me ready to suit for Illinois. I was seriously inspired listening to him and what he was trying to build.
I know there are a lot of factors at play when you are dealing with the upper echelon of talent, but man does he own a room with his passion and energy. I just hope a few more talented kids get on board but I fear that the more losing that occurs, the harder that is to do.
I know there are a lot of factors at play when you are dealing with the upper echelon of talent, but man does he own a room with his passion and energy. I just hope a few more talented kids get on board but I fear that the more losing that occurs, the harder that is to do.
Chilliniwek
- Chicagoland
Ha, you may well have coached me!
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