Deleted member 3875
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Weber had totally lost his team for over a two year period. It was time for him to go.
John Groce at Illinois
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Weber had totally lost his team for over a two year period. It was time for him to go.
Weber was not the answer and should have been sent packing a few years before he was. This program was in a really bad place when Groce took over. Unfortunately he hasn't done much to get it to a better place. He's a good guy and I want him to succeed I just think he is in too far over his head with this job. I found it interesting last night that the announcers mentioned that Crean has 3 former head coaches on his staff. If you surround yourself with experience it could help. I don't think the staff Groce has is anywhere close to a BIG staff. Groce tries too hard to be the cool guy and relate with the kids. Focus more on coaching and less on neat quotes. Instead of laughing at the officials when they make a bad call get T'd up for once. Show some dang passion instead of fist bumping the announcer and then telling him "if they make those we are in trouble." Really? If they hit open 3's you are in trouble? Shocking... (ok the one Yogi made from way out was ridiculous but the others were just open shots)
Losing to Wisconsin and Indiana doesn't make Groce's seat any hotter. IMO, it would have just cooled his seat if he would have won one of those games. It's kind of like losing on the road, it doesn't hurt your resume but winning helps it tremendously. Nothing is guaranteed, but Groce is likely back next year. It's completely understandable for some fans to want a new coach this year though.
It's definitely more frustrating from a fan's perspective. Doubt it really affects the AD's decision, but I guess we will see.
Agreed. The way the team played last night in the 2nd half was a low point for me as a fan. I remember how hard it was for teams to come into Champaign and get a W. Now it happens so frequently that fans are staying away in droves. The attendance last night (besides the Crush who did show up) was very telling. You have a nationally ranked rival coming in and there were a lot of empties. The fan base is apathetic to this program. That coupled with all the off the court issues and you see that this is a program in complete disarray. Groce made mention that the athletic department was a ship without a rudder. I feel the same way about the basketball program. A team without a rudder. Time for a change.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
I guess the big question is - is firing him on the table for Whitman, even if he wants to? There's a decent chance the answer is "no," based on a bunch of factors which we've already discussed at length.
But if he can? It would be hard for the basketball program to make a worse impression on him since he his introductory presser.
Agreed the best predictor of future behavior is recent past behavior. Depending on how we finish, we could be looking at our worst record in 45 years. Hardly, an enticement for game-changing recruits. SMH
Listening to Groce talk during post-game pressers and such nowadays is reminding me too much of the last of the Weber days - throwing players under the bus. The bottom line is it is always the players, and since he is the head coach in charge of the players, if he can't get them lined out then he is failing at his job and needs to go just like Weber did. I am sorry folks, but too many meltdowns, blowouts and off-the-court issues over the last three years for my tastes. I would love to see him succeed, but he has been given enough rope and has very nearly hung himself, so time to move on. It will be very interesting to see how the season ends, including the BTT.
Deleted member 19448
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I think Josh Whitman would go a long way toward establishing credibility with the Illini nation if he makes a move now. Of course he needs to have someone lined up to take the job, but for as long as I can remember, we have kept coaches at least a year or 2 past the point where you knew it was time for a change. The apathy toward these programs will not start to change until it is demonstrated that the way of doing business is going to change.
Of course it is no guarantee that a replacement would do better, but it is a risk that is worth taking IMO. I'd be intrigued to give Bryce Drew or someone else on that level a shot to see if they can turn the bus around on this road to complete irrelevance.
Of course it is no guarantee that a replacement would do better, but it is a risk that is worth taking IMO. I'd be intrigued to give Bryce Drew or someone else on that level a shot to see if they can turn the bus around on this road to complete irrelevance.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal with Do Not Contact Tag
Just ask yourself - would anyone really complain if we did? I'm thinking not.
Which leads me back to the main hurdles being ones of practicality.
He'd build his credibility from 0 to, say 2 by firing Groce. And then when the "Sources: Drew Extends Valpo Contract" headline hits, he goes from 2 to -347,928 and he's a dead man walking before he has even bought a house in Champaign. He might as well not even turn up.
Groce's coaching leaves SO much to be desired. But I agree with Second and Chalmers that the risk is great if we aren't sure we can land Drew. Tough times ahead for Whit, but that's what he signed up for. Personally, I don't believe Groce is nearly good enough to be our coach, and so I'm fine with firing him regardless. No reason to keep around a guy you know isn't a good coach. But I understand the hesitance. What I really don't understand is the people who insist in the face of all contrary evidence that Groce is a good coach.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
I don't insist that he is a good coach. I do have a hard time believing that even a great coach would do much with the injuries that have taken place to this roster. I still find his coaching grade to be incomplete to this point. But that's just me.
I can understand this. For people like me, you take the subpar coaching with the spectacular in game meltdowns and games where we've completely given up (multi-year problem), and then add the ridiculous off court behavior and it becomes really hard to support him.
Robert at Illini board took a look at the off court issues in a piece today, and found our 13 basketball players have had more issues than our 85 football players. It's shocking.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
I cant speak to the issues, I haven't read the piece yet. I do think the team last year gave up the last 2 games. I don't know if this team has given up this year. I think we are a jump shooting team. I think its very easy to look like you don't care when your jump shot isn't falling. Its hard show "fire and passion" when you're behind in a game and all you have is a pull up jumper and quick threes to try and get back in it.
I may be looking a things way to much through my orange tinted glasses, and I can't argue if Groce is let go at the end of this year. He and the team have put themselves in that position. But I have maintained the thought from when he was hired, that I want to see what this team looks like when his PG is on the roster. All we heard about was "wait till he gets his pg her and watch us go". For me, he has his PG next year and TA as a safety net. If its not working this this time next year, I will walk him to the door myself.
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The way orange and blue runs through Whitman's veins, does anybody REALLY think that the last couple of weeks is the only time he's paid any attention to what the Illini are doing on the football field and the basketball court?
I realize he had a job somewhere else, but given his apparent energy level and the fact that the AD job that he wanted for the last 20 years was open for over 3 months--doesn't anyone else think he MIGHT have been watching the programs with one eye at least? And forming a preliminary opinion on them? You can't tell me he's coming in with a blank slate and a completely open mind no matter what he says. It's just human nature.
This is a stretch...5th yr seniors aren't the problem, they are a symptom of empty roster spots & holes from missing out on freshman & a late injury to Abrams in Khalid's case. Austin is playing because we are missing Thorne, Abrams, Paul, & Black, & then Nunn/Tate/Finke for a few games, with a bunch of freshman who weren't ready.
We have no traditional seniors on this team, this was a missing class from Weber. The only way to fix this would be with transfers.
Our Junior class has 4 kids, we could have tried/tried harder to hold onto Colbert...we could have tried to hold onto someone else, but I don't think we really had a chance at much else in Groce's first class.
We could have went after more freshman in our current sophomore class, if we didn't have roster spots tied up with Cosby, Rice, Paul, & Starks; so that is fair enough. But then again we did, we went after Cliff & Snider (as oversigns); we had additional scholarships I suspect we would have went harder after after a couple more...so we have a couple more sophomores on the team or maybe another freshman.
In which case:
...we give up Kipper because we don't have Paul's late scholarship open up
...we are spending this year without Khalid because we didn't have a schollie to pick him up, so it is Malcom & Tate at pg...maybe DJW when Tate was hurt...say what you want about Khalid, but he is playing because the next option is much worse.
...We don't have Thorne, instead we have a freshman/sophomore version of Mav/Colbert
Bottomline, not many teams will lose or can afford to lose 4 guys projected to be in the rotation for most of the season and not take a hit.
Epsilon
M tipping over
- Pdx
Does anybody here know how the logistics of a decision would even be made?
I thought that Whitman's first official day in his capacity as an AD is March 21. I would not expect to hear anything one way or the other before then. However, coaching exits and hires are typically made quite quickly during / after the tournament.
I thought that Whitman's first official day in his capacity as an AD is March 21. I would not expect to hear anything one way or the other before then. However, coaching exits and hires are typically made quite quickly during / after the tournament.
TJL, as good as he may end up becoming, is a 3 star unranked PG. He isn't going to come in next year and be able to run the offense. As for TA, he is remembered much more fondly than what people said about him when he played.
Well then there's your answer.
Firing Groce a second later than the day after our elimination from the BTT is not an option. The market moves faster every year.
The only way Whitman can make a move is if he already has an iron clad agreement in place with a top candidate. Letting Groce go and then striking out on the next "Shaka or Stevens" will sink the program further into oblivion. I am just not sold that he can work the back channels fast enough this season to land a credible hire. I know if I am Whitman, I am sticking with Groce for another year just so that my first hire goes smoothly. We have to be one of the only major universities to strike out so publicly with our first choices for football, basketball, and AD. Please Mr. Whitman save our dignity on this hire!
That is unfortunately just not how it works.
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