John Groce at Illinois

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#1,128      
Obelix
#1,129      
ssanti13
GameOfThrows said:
Why did Groce rush both Black and Thorne back from injury?!!!!

Why did he Crean Colbert for Paul?!! There were warning signs about Paul that many knew about.

Why did he take Cosby and Starks?

I believe that Groce is a good evaluator of talent, but these are some glaring mistakes. And I am not even mentioning the lack of an offense or defense or rebounding...

I agree that he should get one more season b/c of what he inherited and the injuries, but next season is put up or shut up time. Win at least one NCAA tourney game or our new AD hires a new coach.
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Groce isn't Tim Beckman. Groce had clearance from medical professionals involved to let them play, and undoubtedly a desire from Black and Thorne to get into games. It's not like they entered those games or practiced against their will.

Colbert showed some signs of improvement, but there was some inconsistency there as well. Frankly I think the kid put a hamper on his own ceiling by not getting it done in the weight-room. I don't care how resistant or fast your metabolism might be, it is absolutely manageable to put on mass when you're 6'9", have state-of-the-art facilities at the tip of your fingers, and a strength/conditioning staff at your disposal. Paul is a clown, but he showed a heck of a lot more promise than Colbert in my opinion. Kid could have been really solid. Oh well.


2 seasons ago, we couldn't shoot our way out of a paper bag. So Groce goes out and snags a Cosby, who hit 65 3's in the 12/13 season. He also roped in Oregon State's all time leading three point shooter in Starks, a chicago native. Things didn't pan out with them, but I don't blame Groce entirely for thinking these guys could help our offensive woes. But no doubt Cosby was a bust, and Starks was a semi-bust.
 
#1,130      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Sal Iacuzzo said:
I don't think Groce has done enough in 4 years where he neccesarily deserves a 5th. If there are better coaches out there who would come to Illinois (and I think there are) we need to make a change. Programs that want to compete at a championship level don't tolerate this level of losing.
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I tend to agree but think Groce will get that 5th year.

And I'm not sure your last statement applies to Illinois, unfortunately.
 
#1,131      
DudeAbides
RichardH said:
I don't think we are AT that point yet, but I think we are NEAR that point. I feel like a lot of people keep adjusting the bar lower as to what expectations were for this year.
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To be fair, after the injuries the goal posts should be moved. But that being said, even with injuries, I think winning 5 or fewer B1G games is a complete meltdown, imo. We should never be that bad.
 
#1,133      
Fillory
RichardH said:
Out of curiosity what would your definition of an epic meltdown be?

I agree that some of the assistants may not be back, but who would take a job at Illinois right now as an assistant? The odds of your HC being fired within a year might be around 50/50.
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Groce would probably have to do something Beckman-like to get fired. He has no boss right now.
 
#1,134      
whovous
GameOfThrows said:
1. Why did Groce rush both Black and Thorne back from injury?!!!!

2. Why did he Crean Colbert for Paul?!! There were warning signs about Paul that many knew about.

3. Why did he take Cosby and Starks?
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1. He didn't. He brought them back when they were cleared to play.
2. He didn't. Two different scholarships, plus there is no real evidence Colbert was shown the door.
3. Cosby looked decent in his freshman year. I'd be interested in learning how anyone could have predicted the dropoff in his play, although I suppose his attitude problem might have been found with the proper due diligence. Starks was expected to play the year before on a hardship waiver. For that year, he was simply a last minute pickup to fill a scholarship that would have otherwise sat empty. That would have been a decent result for that year. He would have competed with JT for playing time to backup Tracy (prior to TA's first injury).

I'd give Groce another year almost regardless of what happens the rest of this year. Then again, it took the Nebraska game before I finally turned on Weber. I'm just not a big fan of firing coaches.
 
#1,135      
Obelix
Adnarel said:
So, Groce gets the team dancing as a #10 seed and we lose our first game. You fire him for that?
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I am not sure whether the AD will do or not, but much should depend on landing an excellent 2017 recruiting class. Actually, that is one of my biggest fears, we barely squeeze into the tournament next year depending very heavily on Hill, Nunn, Mav, Tate, and possibly Abrams and/ore another 5th year; then they all graduate and the 2017 class is just average/good but with unrealistic expectations of development and improvements. If that happens, then IMO we just prolong the inevitable in that case.
 
#1,136      
TownieMatt
whovous said:
1. He didn't. He brought them back when they were cleared to play.
2. He didn't. Two different scholarships, plus there is no real evidence Colbert was shown the door.
3. Cosby looked decent in his freshman year. I'd be interested in learning how anyone could have predicted the dropoff in his play, although I suppose his attitude problem might have been found with the proper due diligence. Starks was expected to play the year before on a hardship waiver. For that year, he was simply a last minute pickup to fill a scholarship that would have otherwise sat empty. That would have been a decent result for that year. He would have competed with JT for playing time to backup Tracy (prior to TA's first injury).

I'd give Groce another year almost regardless of what happens the rest of this year. Then again, it took the Nebraska game before I finally turned on Weber. I'm just not a big fan of firing coaches.
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I agree with most of this, but Colbert was shown the door. Let's not be naive.
 
#1,138      
Vermilion Slim
For those of you who would like to see Groce replaced at the end of the year, what kind of coaching candidate would you be interested in us hiring?

Below is a list of current head coaches (that MIGHT take the UIUC job if offered). Please feel free to correct anything here as I put this together somewhat quickly:

1. Gregg Marshall: Wichita State: 52
Pros: Obvious
Cons: Buyout, likelihood of coming

2. Archie Miller: Dayton: 37
Pros: Obvious
Cons: Likelihood of coming

3. Ben Jacobson: Northern Iowa: 45
Pros: Best winning percentage at N. Iowa in modern history; good performance in good conf.
Cons: Likelihood of coming; low-diversity of playing/coaching experience (all in Iowa and North Dakota)

4. Bryce Drew: Valpo: 41
Pros: continued winning tradition at Valpo; good family coaching history; Roger as assistant; former professional player
Cons: Only college experience is at Valpo

5. Jerod Haase: UAB: 41
Pros: Bringing UAB back to top of CUSA; strong college pedigree at Kansas and N. Carolina
Cons: CUSA is weaker than in the past and UAB has always been fairly good; some fans may not like his background at Kansas and N. Carolina

6. Keith Dambrot: Akron: 57
Pros: Has 20+ wins at Akron each of the last 10 years; been to NCAA tourney 3 times; LeBron swag
Cons: Age (old); college pedigree

7. Mike Lonergan: George Washington: 50
Pros: Been successful at all stops; brought GW back to prominence
Cons: Only coached on the east coast; some may think GW’s recovery has been too slow

8. Dan Majerle: Grand Canyon: 50
Pros: 3x NBA all-star; NBA assistant coach; Has Grand Canyon at 17-2 this year with a win over San Diego State
Cons: Grand Canyon’s competition is pretty abysmal; might jump for pro job if he has success at a high major

9. Russell Turner: UC-Irvine: 45
Pros: UCI has improved in every year since he’s been there; took them to their first NCAA tournament last year; diverse assis. coaching background including 6 years with the warriors
Cons: Relative unknown; coaches in fairly weak conf. the warriors only made the playoffs once while he was an assistant

10. Will Wade: VCU: 33
Pros: Took over struggling Chattanooga program and improved them for 2 years; has started off relatively well at VCU; assistant at VCU under Shaka during final four run
Cons: Age (young); lost all big non-conf games this year

11. Matthew Driscoll: North Florida: 51
Pros: Slowly built North Florida into a solid program; strong assistant coaching background
Cons: Took 6 years to make North Florida relevant in a bad conf.

12. Mark Montgomery: Northern Illinois: 45
Pros: Has NIU competing for the first time in forever (or ever) in the MAC; NIU improved each year under his direction; longtime Izzo assistant
Cons: Probably still a few years away as record at NIU was bad the last 4 seasons

13. Chris Beard: Ark. Little-Rock: 43
Pros: Has A-LR at 17-2 with some decent non-conf. wins; Successful Head coaching experience at many levels
Cons: Has an odd coaching background; 1st year as div. 1 head coach; almost exclusively coached in Texas

Others: Leon Rice (Boise State); Steve Pikiell (Stoney Brook); King Rice (Monmouth); Dana Ford (Tennessee State).
 
#1,139      
TownieMatt
@Slim Nice list, but you can take Marshall and Miller off right now. It ain't happenin'.
 
#1,140      
Obelix
Vermilion Slim said:
1. Gregg Marshall: Wichita State: 52
Pros: Obvious
Cons: Buyout, likelihood of coming
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Very small minority opinion here, but while I believe Gregg Marshall is a good coach, I do not believe Marshall is the right coach to turn around a very struggling HM program like Illinois. I believe Marshall knows that, and he will opt for a more stable situation.
 
#1,142      
IlliniOX08
Vermilion Slim said:
For those of you who would like to see Groce replaced at the end of the year, what kind of coaching candidate would you be interested in us hiring?

Below is a list of current head coaches (that MIGHT take the UIUC job if offered). Please feel free to correct anything here as I put this together somewhat quickly:

1. Gregg Marshall: Wichita State: 52
Pros: Obvious
Cons: Buyout, likelihood of coming

2. Archie Miller: Dayton: 37
Pros: Obvious
Cons: Likelihood of coming

3. Ben Jacobson: Northern Iowa: 45
Pros: Best winning percentage at N. Iowa in modern history; good performance in good conf.
Cons: Likelihood of coming; low-diversity of playing/coaching experience (all in Iowa and North Dakota)

4. Bryce Drew: Valpo: 41
Pros: continued winning tradition at Valpo; good family coaching history; Roger as assistant; former professional player
Cons: Only college experience is at Valpo
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Any one of these is a great hire. I'd rank it like this: 1) Miller 2) Marshall 3) Drew 4) Jacobson

I agree that Miller and Marshall are long shots to get, short of backing up a dump truck of cash and handing them a 5-7 year deal. Drew is the prospect that intrigues me the most. Young, playing history, family coaching history. They've all been successful. I think he would generate genuine excitement around the program and bring a great level of coaching pedigree at the same time.

Short of those four or a hugely unforeseen break in our favor (and our luck has been basically nothing but bad for a few years), I don't think there is anyone else out there worth taking a shot on.
 
#1,143      
WesterveltVictoryCigar
From that list Miller and Drew stand out to me. Driscoll was intriguing when we played them, but I don't know too much about him.

I'd go after some other guys that might seem "unobtainable", i..e Krystkowiak.

Also still think it's too soon, the list will be different next spring when it's more likely a change might take place.
 
#1,146      
illinitiger
WesterveltVictoryCigar said:
From that list Miller and Drew stand out to me. Driscoll was intriguing when we played them, but I don't know too much about him.

I'd go after some other guys that might seem "unobtainable", i..e Krystkowiak.

Also still think it's too soon, the list will be different next spring when it's more likely a change might take place.
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Agree...too soon to be seriously looking at a list like this, but it's an interesting list and good summary comments.
Didn't realize Majerle was a coach..
 
#1,147      
Adnarel
Obelix said:
I am not sure whether the AD will do or not, but much should depend on landing an excellent 2017 recruiting class. Actually, that is one of my biggest fears, we barely squeeze into the tournament next year depending very heavily on Hill, Nunn, Mav, Tate, and possibly Abrams and/ore another 5th year; then they all graduate and the 2017 class is just average/good but with unrealistic expectations of development and improvements. If that happens, then IMO we just prolong the inevitable in that case.
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I dunno. By that time, DJW, JCL, MF, and AJ have had time to mature. That's not a bad core group by any stretch of the imagination. I think most people are especially excited about Finke. I most certainly am.

But of course you are correct in emphasizing the importance of the 2017 class.
 
#1,148      
zpfled
Adnarel said:
I dunno. By that time, DJW, JCL, MF, and AJ have had time to mature. That's not a bad core group by any stretch of the imagination. I think most people are especially excited about Finke. I most certainly am.

But of course you are correct in emphasizing the importance of the 2017 class.
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A senior Leron + TJL and Kipper as sophs will be a nice addition to that core. That's a young-ish team (low on seniors), but half of the junior class will have been playing tons of minutes for 3 years.

If we get a strong 2017 class (like 2015, but more balanced position-wise), and fill the hole we'll have at Center....I'm pretty happy with that.
 
#1,149      
Adnarel
Good gravy, I forgot about poor Leron.

By then, maybe he'll have figured out that basketball isn't a game of Sock 'em Boppers.
 
#1,150      
zpfled
Adnarel said:
Good gravy, I forgot about poor Leron.

By then, maybe he'll have figured out that basketball isn't a game of Sock 'em Boppers.
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Lol.

Yeah, he can rebound, has a decent jumpshot, and has shown flashes of great play (last year vs. Purdue, rumors of the Euro trip).

I'm sure he'll put it all together and reign in the fouls eventually.
 
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