Marquette 71, Illinois 64 Postgame

#276      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
Illiniblueorange said:
Until he makes a freshman mistake , then the Illini faithful that think they know better will eat him alive.

Sorry if this is a little harsh but after some of the comments I have seen about last nights loss I am a bit soured on some arm chair coaches
Click to expand...
Being a long-suffering Cubs/Bears/Illini fan, I don't understand how some people fan. If I approached it the way some people do, I'd have had to change my allegiances years ago...

Is it disappointing when your team doesn't play well? Yes. Does it mean they aren't doing their best? Usually, no. I'm rooting for the guys. I hope they do great. I also realize, especially in the college ranks, that some of these guys aren't super emotionally, mentally, or physically mature and will make bad plays and react poorly sometimes. I find no joy in tearing them down.

Part of the fun of college athletics is to see the growth of players and teams over the course of the season/career. I love the potential of the 3 guys in this class. Morez is as close to a sure thing as you can get to being an excellent B1G player. Jason and Jace have great potential. I can't wait to see what they each have in store for us.

It SHOULD BE FUN.
 
#278      

BalloonsTheElephant

B
BalloonsTheElephant
I think we missed another defensive stopper in this game. We finally switched TJ to Kolek in the second, but they just got the switch every time and he was 1:1 with what looked like a wobbly man outside a car dealership attempting to play defense.

Then Kam Jones started scoring after being held to 3 by TJ in the first. Sencire could have been that guy to help there.
 
#279      

Bigtex

Bigtex
DFW
Bigtex
One Man Fast Break said:
Rodgers passing up an open layup on a must-score possession tells you all you need to know. He's not a scorer in this level.

Likely going to have same profiles as last year, where it's a good defensive team, but not so good that a good offensive team is going to be able to score on them. And on offense, there's a clear lack of a Point Guard along with the consistent issue in the Underwood era that they are not able to consistently scheme good offensive possessions that will result in high percentage plays... this means that even if playing a bad defensive team, there isn't much of an expectation on my end that they'll make the opposition pay.

Offense generally consists of (A) Shannon (or someone) trying to play "hero ball" and seeing what happens, (B) passing around the perimeter until someone takes a three point attempt or (C) some sort of offensive rebound and second chance attempt (god willing depending on opponent).

8 Assists and 15 Turnovers tonight. Going to be days like this. A game Illinois was favored in a home game, but Marquette does rank highly and their best player was healthier than the lines likely anticipated. Likely would have been more lopsided earlier on if not for some silly unforced misses at the rim by Marquette along with poor shooting from both three and the free throw line.
Click to expand...
So much truth in your post.

Have to get Coleman off of the top of the key. Watch the offense stop while he 1) pump fakes or 2) thinks through what he is going to do next 3) takes a hurried or step back 3 or even worse 4) throws it to the other team
Coleman's 1 made 3 was a catch and shoot on the baseline - no thinking what he needed to do.
I want SFC to be a location other teams fear (like early 2000's) Self 39-1 at SFC or 2004-2005 15-0. Not sure that will happen anytime soon.
When Kolek tried to guard Domask - offense should have been ISO with Domask. Why wasn't that recognized by team?
Like last year's team - why can't anyone regularly beat their man off of the dribble in the set offense!
3 early Shannon Airballs looked so much like 22-23 team.
 
#282      

Rap47

R
Rap47
Why doesn't everyone forget that we didn't get a point guard. Nothing can be done about that. Root for the team we have and quit whining about not having something we don't have. that horse has been beat to death.
 
#283      

illini510

I
illini510
Not sure if anyone feels the same, but what's up with the Orange Krush? Maybe it seemed louder in person but it didn't come off that way on the tv screen. Compared to Purdue's student section, the Orange Krush has a long way to go to make the difference that their predecessors made. You're playing a top 5 team in the country and you stand silently when Marquette has a 5-8 pt lead? Make some noise, be the 6th man, be the intimidating and hostile presence that we know the Orange Krush can be. I was a bit disappointed and it speaks to a group that maybe isn't as basketball intense as their predecessors from 20 yrs ago
 
#284      

ChiTown

ChiTown
ChiTown
I know everyone is jumping on the we need a PG bandwagon,but am going on record right now stating that Hawkins determines the ceiling of of this team.He needs to step up his game and contribute more offensively without being timid and just chucking up 3 points shots.We need more players to step up with scoring besides TJ and Domask…the we need a PG ship has sailed and the question is now can we do to better improve our chances.
 
#285      

blife

B
blife
College basketball is all about guard play, they had Kolek and Jones, both VG next level guys. We have nothing like that tandem at our guard spots. At least not yet. Time will tell on DGL. But a shortcoming for us as of now.
 
#286      

HailtotheChief

H
HailtotheChief
ChiTown said:
I know everyone is jumping on the we need a PG bandwagon,but am going on record right now stating that Hawkins determines the ceiling of of this team.He needs to step up his game and contribute more offensively without being timid and just chucking up 3 points shots.We need more players to step up with scoring besides TJ and Domask…the we need a PG ship has sailed and the question is now can we do to better improve our chances.
Click to expand...
Hawkins can certainly help us out a ton but he doesn't not need to be our 2nd leading scorer every game. Hawk can on some nights I just think Domask can do that much more efficiently. What we need from Coleman is to play to his strengths, rebound on both ends, play D, take good shots when they present themselves and has an advantage. He needs to make good reactions and solid fundamental plays without forcing things. When he forcing things is when he seems to turn the ball over and takes bad shots. Hawkins can be our second or third best player without scoring 15 pts a game and have a huge impact on our teams efficiently and success on both ends of the floor if he just does that. I am thankful we have depth and guys get better to help him out on nights like last night. Everyone has off nights but when they do they need to learn from it.
One thing I love about Domasks game is he let's it come to him and doesn't seem to ever be rushed or hurried and I think others can to if they are Dailey in.
 
Last edited:
#287      

goillini30

goillini30
goillini30
Big Jack said:
I would agree with your analysis.. However after attending virtually every home game since Brad became coach. I sit in my perch from above wondering what in the hell is our offensive goal? I will admit I am not a BB coach and the xs and os are not my strength, but that being said i have seen rec teams run better plays at the Disc in Decatur. Someone with some true BB knowledge feel free to explain to me what I am missing besides some dribbling hand it to TSJ and hope he can shoot a 3 drive or find a man parked out on the 3 pt line that feels like chucking up a 3.

This team has no concept on how to clear out the lane and let Dain,CoHawk or TSJ play one on one.. the post is always clogged... One only need to watch 2-3 minutes of Marquette to see how you do it.. Is it that hard to pull your man away from the basket? Maybe we need to see more clearing and more Dain on the floor.

Overall I was happy with overall play last night but left frustrated by our continued lack of an offensive game plan.
Click to expand...
This year we seem to be focusing on what are called "Zoom" actions with a pin down leading to a dribble handoff. See the link below for more details. Hopefully as the season progresses we'll add more and more counters or options off of the basic motion. I've said for the past few seasons that I really wish we had some more quick hitter set plays that BU could call when we've had a few bad offensive trips in a row. That would give him more control over who would get the next shot and from where. For example, last night Goode was hot from 3, but we don't have a play to call that gets him running around some off ball screens to try to free him up.

 
#288      

goillini30

goillini30
goillini30
BalloonsTheElephant said:
Have we not practiced inbounds plays outside of lobbing it over the head of our guy to half court?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure those passes are only supposed to lead the receiver to the elbow or 3 point line at the furthest. Definitely not run it well last night, but I remember plays like that sometimes leading to layups last year when the other player on the lane line faked up to the elbow, then back cut to the rim.
 
#289      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
goillini30 said:
Pretty sure those passes are only supposed to lead the receiver to the elbow or 3 point line at the furthest. Definitely not run it well last night, but I remember plays like that sometimes leading to layups last year when the other player on the lane line faked up to the elbow, then back cut to the rim.
Click to expand...

Its safe, its easy, its predictable, until the other team messes up a coverage or tries to jump it and then its a layup.
 
#290      

Roundball Sage

R
Roundball Sage
One of those ‘Learn from and build team character” games. And hit more Threes. (This team is going to live or die from the Three Line).

Some of the Illini need to level-off their games and get more consistent overall.

And one of these days it will be nice to beat this Marquette team instead of losing so many close ones.

This Illini team should have a higher ceiling than recent years once they clean things up. ‘Positionless Basketball’ (with no PG) is great... but whomever in wherever on the floor still needs to handle the ball with careful alacrity.
 
#291      

jrichisamazing

J
jrichisamazing
Indy Illini Fan said:
No one is gonna out work that kid … Ty will only continue to get better … And I agree - he’s getting closer …

But in order to beat a team like Marquette … Ty has to be your 4th guy … TJ, Domask, and it just feels like we expected that 3rd guy to be Coleman and he’s just not it … We really are missing an elite guard who can just take someone off the bounce and go get one IMO … And while Ty is working on that … He’s not there yet …

Elite guard play … Marquette has about 4-5 guards that would start for us …
Click to expand...

Love your insights, as always, @Indy Illini Fan.

How is the staff feeling about Dain and Harmon right now?

I was hoping Dain would be a more consistent post threat for us and be able to give us a solid 10 ppg down there and occasionally take over a game.

And Harmon hasn't done much on offense or defense, other than a couple hustle plays. Maybe he is still getting comfortable and will get better as we go?
 
#292      

Billini64

B
Billini64
No doubt two major issues with this team is no legitimate point guard and the misuse of Hawkins, & the two are related. Without a true point running the show & creating opportunities on offense it seems that we want to run the offense through Hawkins as a point forward way too much. He is a great athlete, but performs best on the fly when he does not have to make decisions (like the catch & shoot 3 pointer he made last night as an example). Has been that way since his freshman year. I think he has way too many touches out on the perimeter. Need to put him in a better position to utilize his strengths & he could be a great asset (which would include an occasional 3), or keep using him like we are & we'll be complaining about his decision making & turnovers all year again.
 
#293      

State of Chicago

S
State of Chicago
This was a legit close game. Marquette never led by more than 7-8 points. This wasn’t a game where we were down 15 and they brought in the bench for a breather. This wasn’t a game where we fouled at the end and reduced a 12 point loss into the single digits. This was a game that we were in the entire time. If not for some poor decisions and bad shot selection in the last few minutes, we could have won.

Do I think that a top tier point guard would have made a difference? Do I think allowing Ty to play his natural position would make us a better team? The answer to both of those questions is yes. Rather than lament what could have or should have been, it’s time to realize that this is our team. This is the roster Brad constructed. I think it’s a pretty damn good team. Really happy to be in or on the cusp of the top 25. Confident this team can get us to the 2nd weekend.
 
#294      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
HailtotheChief said:
Coleman could have left but he stayed and I'm glad he did. I do agree he can have a major impact but I still think with the additions of Domask and Quincy we are not completely relying on Hawkins. Clearly someone else like will need to take a jump and pitch in if Hawk has an off night but he will have good nights too. Hopefully Goode, DGL, Amani, Dain, or Ty can on those nights. I really hope Amani and DGL can get some tick in our easier games.

After BU comments about playing anyone who will offensive rebound I certainly expect more time for Amani and Quincy. BU is clearly frustrated at how we rebound on both ends. I believe him when he says that. Sometimes the bench is the best way to send a message .
Click to expand...
I’m glad CH stayed too. My point is that at this point we know what Coleman is — a talented player who can be up and down (though mostly up). And yes we have other pieces that make this a good team that should make the tourney with a relatively good seed. But we’re not going to beat the Purdues, Tennessees and, obviously, Marquette with him having one of his bad games. So we’re very dependent on how CoHawk plays for a deep tourney run. Just have to hope he can string together some “good CoHawk” games. He’s capable of that but will it happen?
 
#295      

Get yourself a new map

G
Get yourself a new map
illini 67 said:
Ty is a decent Point guard. Kolek is Elite. Shaka Smart got us to switch defenders until Goode was on Kolek then it was over. Luke is ok on D but can't be expected to contain a guard with Kolek' skills.
Click to expand...
I'm even fine with a lot of the shots he was forced into. I think he hit about 5 shots that IMO were not good shots - drawing contact while scooping it up around a taller defender. I am pinning this post (mentally) for when he goes 3-13 in a game within the next month. Those just always seem to go in against us, however.
 
#296      

I-L-L 1318

I
I-L-L 1318
Some good takeaways, some bad as well. They did take the #4 team down to the last few minutes, and cleaning a few things up, would give them a shot at a win. Pretty pleased in the effort for a team that has logged 3 games together vs a GOOD Marquette team that returned almost everybody.
 
#297      

Birdus

B
Birdus
I like this team much better than last years. I really like Domask. I guess the question is if they are willing to play unselfishly. If they are, they can go far.
 
#299      

OB positive

O
OB positive
FormerIllini said:
PG play was not this issue. The issue was silly forced passes. Every time it killed any of our momentum and then they get a couple quick ones and are back up 5-6
Click to expand...
With a top ball handling, distributing point gaurd there would be a lot less situations where the others were forced to try to create so much and make those sloppy passes. While our point gaurd play was adequate it has yet to be a big catalyst for our offense. Hopefully one of ours develops into the facilitater we need as the year goes on to take the pressure off the others having to try and create so much.
 
#300      

chudaman

chudaman
chudaman
sacraig said:
Hawkins just does not have the killer instinct or consistency to be that go-to scorer. And it's maddening since he clearly has all the tools.

Get Ty going and I think that helps a lot. He already just swallows up rebounds. Hell be a double double machine before long. Hopefully by mid-season?
Click to expand...
I agree with getting Ty into rebound mode and I think he deserves a green light on offensive rebound put backs, but i would also like to see him assume a "Bardo" attitude and prioritize getting shots for TSJ, Domask, Luke and Harmon instead of for himself.