Probably been addressed, but if he had played this game he couldn’t declare.Should have played this game and then declared ............................................................................
But,
Marquette 71, Illinois 64 Postgame
Big Jack
- Decatur
No we don't. If we had Kolek (sp) on our team I personally dont see our offense running any better. I mentioned this earlier but our sets do not seem to get anyone room to move in or near the paint.. Is that a matter of lack of execution? I don't know. But it is consistently happening.. Watch to see how many times TSJ tried to drive only to have a defender or 2 there waiting for him.. Coleman sadly does not have the ability to slash. Great player and even a good ball handler but lacks the abiltiy to take it to the bucket. Spacing is just bad. Sitting where I was against Marq you could see there sets spacing which allowed there guards and center to move to the basket one on one.. Yes sometimes we helped out got a block or missed shot. We on the other hand clogged the middle. There is no way an opponents center guarding Coleman should be the near the paint if we are trying to clear out to let someone drive.. That is not because of the PG its because of spacing and lack of execution.
Wyatt Earp 2024!
The one possession that keeps playing in my mind is late in the game (under a minute or close to it) and Ty gets the ball right under the basket and could have gone for the layup but instead whipped the ball out to Marcus for a 3. The 2 would have cut it to I believe 3, but instead it was still 5, and them with the ball. Not why we lost, but a 2 would have changed how the end of the game played out.
No, I wouldn't say bad. But not as electric as I think it should've been for that level of game.
We have had a few electric atmospheres over the last couple years. So we are capable of it. But last night, imo, didn't really come close to the games below.
1. Purdue in '22
2. OSU in '22
3. AZ in '21
(All losses unfortunately)
Ty had his Ben Simmons moment. He'll learn.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
I haven’t watched the replay, but I wonder if Ty didn’t realize how wide open he was, and thought there was a phantom defender right on him
I disagree, because IMO, if we had a Kolek (or someone of similar skillset), we would probably be running different sets. It would make shooters better, because he is good at driving and finishing, so help defenders have to show more, which gives shooters more room. Along the same lines, he can shoot, which means his defender can't go under screens, and can't leave him, and it's easier for him to drive, because the D closes out quickly or whatever - he is unpredictable, which is a good thing.
I know you are basically saying our sets are bad and that is a problem, but I'm saying, I think our sets would change and IMO better players can run bad sets, and get better results.
With all due respect, if we had Kolek running the point, we'd be ranked in the top 10, probably top 5 and we'd be a favorite to be in the Final Four. Did you actual watch that game and see what a great PG can do? He got them into their offense, his pushes the ball and is absolutely lethal in transition, his ability to break down the defense by getting into the land creates an abundance of options and he always makes the right decision. He drove and kicked it out, he drove and dumped it off for layups, he finished smoothly at the rim....without him, Marquette is us.
We have talent, but that's about the extent of it. That PG position is SO critical. Most have been pounding that drum since May and you saw first hand why that was the case.
Probably so… it was still a very dumb play.
March 8, 2020 was wild.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
Big Jack
- Decatur
Your assessment is probably true if indeed we had him. Yes I was referring to the sets we run. I don't believe this is a Type issue. I just believe our offensive flow sucks to be blunt. I haven't seen much change in the flow or plan since Kofi and Ayo left. We need a offensive coach aka Gentry. Alexander or someone needs replaced
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Attachments
I can get on board with this part, but not the Kolek part. It seems we are always a pretty good, above average defensive team every year. Yet just watching it as a fan, it always appears the other teams score "easier" in their offense.
people keep talking about Rodgers looking better as a PG, I say at what? but to me even that is the secondary question. By virtue of Rodgers playing PG at all, we are losing what he's best at. When we first saw Ty Rodgers, we saw a swiss army knife. We say a 3/4 that was going to be able to get a lot of assists from that position. Someone that could be a beast on the boards with his quickness. Maybe not much of a shooter, but hopefully that comes, while he makes his hay as a garbage man cleaning up the boards.
But now when you pull him out to the perimeter, we lose all of that. You take him from a mismatch type player, to a guy struggling to be adequate at his position. So already his rebounding numbers are down, I'd imagine that will continue. So yes, I was calling out over the summer, there is a pretty notable difference in our offense with and without Stephen Gentry on staff, so I see your point.
But if we had a PG that knew how to set his teammates up, that definitely would help. If we had a PG that could get to the rim and score, that would definitely help. If we had a guy that could penetrate, break down the defense, and find the open man, that would help. Again, I agree our offense has never been terribly inventive, but perhaps this year it is spread you out on the perimeter precisely because we don't have a PG able to do these things?
skyIdub
Winged Warrior
CoHawk needs to find a rhythm in the offense...either passing or shooting. He hesitates constantly whether shooting or passing, and the offensive flow hits a wall.
We've seen that flow before, and I know the opponents D has a lot to do with it, but CoHawk needs to STFU and be a senior leader...and not with his mouth.
We've seen that flow before, and I know the opponents D has a lot to do with it, but CoHawk needs to STFU and be a senior leader...and not with his mouth.
Coleman also excels as a roller. Maybe I am misremembering but it seemed like we put him in that position with Ty in ball screens more vs KU. He mostly popped then vs rolling to the basket but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he had a much better game vs KU where is role was simplified.
IMO we need to scrap or greatly decrease the amount of sets we run with Coleman in the pinch post acting as a quarterback. Let him roll for lobs, offensive rebound, and pop out for in rhythm 3s.
EDIT: and I realize maybe it’s not ideal to have Ty in those scenarios, but he can hardly do worse than 5 TOs. Can also mix Marcus in as ball handler as well.
I think this is the solution. I know they'd like to take advantage of Marcus' 3 point shooting, but he has a very good mid-range game that we've only seen in flashes. Marcus and TJ are the most complete offensive players we have. They true triple threats at all three levels. (Especially if Shannon's relative success behind the arc continues) I think they are learning to trust Marcus more, and the more they give him the better we will be. What he lacks in athleticism, he makes up in basketball IQ and skill. Marcus needs to assert himself a bit more as well, which I think will come.
TJ needs to get off the bus driving to the rim. He's a real problem once he gets going, but the offense can't just be him in isolation. We have to find ways to get him the ball on the move, so everyone stays connected.
Bigtex
- DFW
Spot on.
I continue to be amazed that we don't recognize good matchups and exploit them Like other teams do with Illinois and our switching defense. I am also amazed that none of our players regularly beat their man with the dribble creating the need to HELP and then score or find an open teammate. Someone else mentioned that we need an assistant to focus on the offense. What about BU? This year has better players and likely a better team who will play a tougher schedule but many trips against Marquette looked and felt like Illinois 22-23
Lots of references this will be good preparation for March. In the last 6 years has Illinois shown significant improvement over the season? And ready for a good run? Wish March 2020 would have played out.
Agreed. On paper I know he has the skillset for the pinch post but it feels like this is leading him to think too much.
I wish we would just pass and screen away
With a PG like Kolek, this offense would run different sets, more pick and rolls, more drive and dish. It would be so different than what we see now.
I love Ty, but he’s out of of position right now. He’s more of a hybrid guy, Jack of all trades. Not a PG only.
I love Ty, but he’s out of of position right now. He’s more of a hybrid guy, Jack of all trades. Not a PG only.
I just did a rewatch…
and I must concur with this. Shannon is MUCH improved over last. He plays WAY more in control. (experience? less drama? familiarity? more defined role?all of the above? whatever it is…I like it.)
Domask increases the collective/overall IQ of the team about 25-30pts with his mere presence. He’s a keeper.
Overall…that was a darn good, competitive basketball game. I don’t really have a problem with our sets for the most part.
I wish we were a little more creative at times sure…I’d like to see some specials for our shooters For example: I’d like to see our shooters coming of stagger/elevator type screens or whatever…but hey maybe we will one of these days.
AND To be fair though…you couldn’t really argue, even in that game there weren’t a lot of open 3 opportunities as it was. Some times after we ran our initial actions and then lifted back out to the perimeter…those shots were often there.
I thought overall…the sets were fairly decent. A think a lot lot of the pass and follow screen, ball screen oriented stuff we try to do tends to look a little jumbled and messy at times…especially when the D guards it well. But some of that is kinda the nature of ball-screen/pick roll oriented stuff honestly…the continuity/flow of it can look kinda clunkier IMO than say some real pretty pass and cut old timey offense where the ball never hits the floor.
I thought Coleman still managed to do some really nice distributing here and there.I dunno what’s going behind the scenes. I don’t wanna see a return to Coleman Squakins from his first year here…I’m old school enough that I have a low threshold for Kolek-esque flexing/celebrating/hotdog with extra-relish type stuff. Just Being Honest.I really felt for him last year, because it certainly seemed he was MORE often trying to play team ball than some of the others.
We DID have the drive and kick…thing working pretty well…I thought…something we had little of in the 4 around 1 thing toward the end of King Kofi’s Reign. So that is a positive.
I think our decision making needs to improve of course. We try to thread the needle too much sometimes on our passing. A good defensive team like that can make you pay. That is a good team…it’s understandable.
Lol..The 2 things that annoyed me the most was our lackadaisical transition defense and a missed box out on a free throw.
(We weren’t even pressing-no excuse!)
2 things that most crotchety old coaches in America find inexcusable. Oh, well. We’re gonna be good.
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