Illini are trying to run a ball screen offense without the right players to be effective in it. Other than TJL they don't have any guards who can drive the ball into the paint and be effective on the kick. All 3 or 4 guards must have the ability to accomplish this. Now look at shooters if they were to drive and kick, Hill and JCL can shoot but don't appear to be able to attack the closeouts. Now the Bigs, both Morgan and Finke are good pick-n-pop guys but don't appear to be good on the roll. I Have not seen the Illini ever ballscreen and roll then reverse the ball back to the weakside guard lifting to then enter into the post guy for a seal. I think the players they will have will have the ability to do this but still have to coach them up......???
Maryland 62, Illinois 56 POSTGAME
Deleted member 547530
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Play of the game - TJL on an inbounds play actually find MM under the basket for a layup. No pass to the corner or lob to half court. How is it TJL is not in at the end of half and end of game? At least it shows TJL learned from his inbound mistake a couple games ago. That in and of itself is refreshing.
I would like to see a list of D1 P5 teams that get less dunks, less points at the rim and less fast break points than we do right now.
I would like to see a list of D1 P5 teams that get less dunks, less points at the rim and less fast break points than we do right now.
Looks like you could use a good read in the "coaches carousel" thread
Have to agree with this. In watching too many hours of college b-ball the last couple of years I can't recall anyone else using the technique of shot fake followed by a jump into the defender ending with the shooter flailing his arms and legs like he's been dropped out of airplane and winding up flat on his face. We see flashes of his new strength on the glass occasionally, I'd like to see him bully his way to the rim once in a while.
I notice a couple of posters have commented about how much slipping and sliding our players seem to do. I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago as well. Do we need some new shoes or what's the deal?
I didn't watch the first few games of THIS season but I felt like Malcolm had gotten away from doing this. It was a pretty regular move of his last year.
As disappointing as it was to not get the call, I applaud the refs for not rewarding a guy for jumping in to someone. I'd hate if that was the way college basketball went.
Trust your shot. You are talented. Don't go for some cheapo call with the game on the line.
Malcolm wasn't amazing last night, but he still got us 11/8. I understand coaches needing to nit-pick at him some, but he contributed what would've been an entirely acceptable line had we pulled out a win. I think we ought to look closer at how to get more out of guys like:
Finke - 17 MP, 5 points (2/2), 3 rebounds
JCL - 34 MP, 9 points (3/12, 3/11 from 3pt), 1 reb, 1 ast
PGs (TJL + TA) - 43 MP, 2 points (0/6), 6 ast, 4 reb, 3 stl, 3 TO
Mav, LB, and MH had solid games, but not a whole lot after them from starters or the bench. Need to find some more consistency
Finke - 17 MP, 5 points (2/2), 3 rebounds
JCL - 34 MP, 9 points (3/12, 3/11 from 3pt), 1 reb, 1 ast
PGs (TJL + TA) - 43 MP, 2 points (0/6), 6 ast, 4 reb, 3 stl, 3 TO
Mav, LB, and MH had solid games, but not a whole lot after them from starters or the bench. Need to find some more consistency
Went out to dinner with my dad's side of the family the other night (precursor: they're big Wisconsin fans). They can't believe how far Illinois basketball has fallen. They also can't believe how our fans have so easily accepted mediocrity. It's hard for me to fault them. Year after year, Wisconsin runs the same system. Year after year, Wisconsin recruits to this system. Year after year, Wisconsin plays with pride and toughness. Year after year, Wisconsin refuses to beat themselves.
In comparison to our beloved Illini, Wisconsin blows us out of the water. I remember when we used to go toe to toe with these guys and now we're an absolute door mat. Let me repeat: a door mat. They've been to five out of the last six sweet sixteens. Yes, five out of the last six sweet sixteens. Yet our fan base at this point just clings to the hope of MAKING the NCAA tournament. Groce has had more than enough time to either a) accrue the right pieces for his system or, b) adjust his system to fit the pieces he currently has on the roster. He has done neither.
It's been rehashed enough on here. Groce is a likable guy. We want him to succeed. But, when it comes down to it, Illinois Basketball deserves more. We are a basketball school. We are supposed to be in the top 4 of the Big Ten year in and year out. That's what blows my mind is how people have lost this vision of what Illinois Basketball is supposed to be. It's obviously been awhile (a decade!!!) but there are enough of us on here that remember the good ol' recent past. Every time we took the court, it was a given that our guys were going to be gamers and that they were going to compete. We could also expect to win 80-85% of the time. It's absolute madness to me that we now hope to just MAKE the tournament these days. We don't hope to make a run in the tournament. We hope to just make the tournament.
Craziness abound. I know we like to look east (at Indiana) when thinking about our rivalries, but more attention should be paid to the north. Bucky consistently gets it done with what is less talent on paper. To top it off, this year they have an Illinois kid by the name of Ethan Happ who is arguably a top 25 player in the entire nation.
TL;DR... Illinois Basketball is supposed to be good. We are not currently good and do not appear to be going on the right trajectory. Our fanbase deserves better.
In comparison to our beloved Illini, Wisconsin blows us out of the water. I remember when we used to go toe to toe with these guys and now we're an absolute door mat. Let me repeat: a door mat. They've been to five out of the last six sweet sixteens. Yes, five out of the last six sweet sixteens. Yet our fan base at this point just clings to the hope of MAKING the NCAA tournament. Groce has had more than enough time to either a) accrue the right pieces for his system or, b) adjust his system to fit the pieces he currently has on the roster. He has done neither.
It's been rehashed enough on here. Groce is a likable guy. We want him to succeed. But, when it comes down to it, Illinois Basketball deserves more. We are a basketball school. We are supposed to be in the top 4 of the Big Ten year in and year out. That's what blows my mind is how people have lost this vision of what Illinois Basketball is supposed to be. It's obviously been awhile (a decade!!!) but there are enough of us on here that remember the good ol' recent past. Every time we took the court, it was a given that our guys were going to be gamers and that they were going to compete. We could also expect to win 80-85% of the time. It's absolute madness to me that we now hope to just MAKE the tournament these days. We don't hope to make a run in the tournament. We hope to just make the tournament.
Craziness abound. I know we like to look east (at Indiana) when thinking about our rivalries, but more attention should be paid to the north. Bucky consistently gets it done with what is less talent on paper. To top it off, this year they have an Illinois kid by the name of Ethan Happ who is arguably a top 25 player in the entire nation.
TL;DR... Illinois Basketball is supposed to be good. We are not currently good and do not appear to be going on the right trajectory. Our fanbase deserves better.
Can someone let me know what the process is to reject mediocrity? Apparently we're doing it wrong.
Second semester starts when, Tuesday? So back they will be when we next play at the SFC.
Wait a minute, that rhymed.
Serious Late
- Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Thought about. Pretty skeptical this is correct, regardless of whether I think Groce should be retained.
I think Groce has always been very supportive of his players taking open shots, to the point of coming down on them when they don't.
CrazedUIFan
UI Fan in QC Land
Personally I think the real issue isn't so much as the wrong personnel. It's more about our guards using the screens correctly. Actually this is the case all over the floor offensively. Drives me crazy watching players not rubbing off the screens being set.
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
I feel your pain my friend! We run our screens as if we'll get called for a foul if we bump shoulders with our own guys. :tsk: If we aren't brushing up against our teammates on screens we aren't doing them correctly as far as I'm concerned.
Look at all the stats from the game
The Michigan game was an outlier. This team is not going to shoot 60% against teams that play average defense. I hate the way losing teams say their guys just could not shoot, they were not getting calls and that they played poor defense to allow the other team to score. Truth? MD missed tons of open looks in the first half when they had beaten the defense. Many of those floaters or tear drops that normally go in were rimming out. And the defense they played in the 2nd half was tremendous which is why it translated into 8 steals and several contested shots...they were the reason we only scored 24 points in the 2nd half. And if you want a real outlier, the Twerps should have won by 15-20 but they had an uncharacteristically horrible night from the charity stripe, missing 10 with 3 of those being front ends of 1-and-1s. MD shot around their average in every other area. And let's not forget that Dodd only played 12 minutes...12 MINUTES! And their other two bigs were saddled with 2 fouls for a good chunk of the first half which is why we were having more offensive success. When our starters play significant minutes against their starters, it's no contest...and they start three freshmen! When is the last time a B1G team started three 4-star (not 5-star) freshmen from almost day 1 and had this big of an impact? Illinois is not even in Maryland's league and a big part of that is how the Terps coaching staff identifies talent and then develops it.
The Michigan game was an outlier. This team is not going to shoot 60% against teams that play average defense. I hate the way losing teams say their guys just could not shoot, they were not getting calls and that they played poor defense to allow the other team to score. Truth? MD missed tons of open looks in the first half when they had beaten the defense. Many of those floaters or tear drops that normally go in were rimming out. And the defense they played in the 2nd half was tremendous which is why it translated into 8 steals and several contested shots...they were the reason we only scored 24 points in the 2nd half. And if you want a real outlier, the Twerps should have won by 15-20 but they had an uncharacteristically horrible night from the charity stripe, missing 10 with 3 of those being front ends of 1-and-1s. MD shot around their average in every other area. And let's not forget that Dodd only played 12 minutes...12 MINUTES! And their other two bigs were saddled with 2 fouls for a good chunk of the first half which is why we were having more offensive success. When our starters play significant minutes against their starters, it's no contest...and they start three freshmen! When is the last time a B1G team started three 4-star (not 5-star) freshmen from almost day 1 and had this big of an impact? Illinois is not even in Maryland's league and a big part of that is how the Terps coaching staff identifies talent and then develops it.
:congrats: everything you said was completely spot on.
Pretty tough to disagree with any of that.
Even when he's not scoring he is a threat to score and must be respected at all times by the defense. Also it is reasonable to think that, especially of all people on the team, Malcolm could snap out of an in game slump at any time. You are advocating for taking our best scorer and biggest threat off the floor, and assuming it will somehow get better. Are you in the TJL camp of Tate camp? Because I have read 1000 times on this board that we need to replace Tate with anyone who is just a THREAT to score. Who do you want to replace Malcolm with? DJW? AJ? Kipper? Those guys haven't proven in games to be even as effective as Tate at their position, meaning their threat to the defense is minimal. It's nice to use buzz words like accountability and next man up philosophy but living in the theoretical world and real world are 2 different things.
This is about to spiral out of control. After this week, we're 2-5 and looking ahead, you can honestly say there is a chance to be 2-7. Penn St. is no sure win, far from it. I have a feeling we're headed back to a Weber type of last season here.... Total and complete bomb.
Im advocating that if hes not playing well you play someone else because thats having depth actually means.
I posted the numbers because its clear that when hes bad hes bad there is no snapping out of it at any moment thats your wishful thinking.
Let me tell you something about the real world
In the real world Malcolm has been featured on this team for 3 seasons and weve gone nowhere and done nothing. To suggest that no matter how bad he plays we should never take him out or hold him accountable his play is utterly ridiculous.
We dont know what anyone else would really do because we have never really gave anyone else that sorta opportunity. Some of you are so set in you ways its easy to see why Groce gets such a huge pass at times. OMG play a freshman over a senior
yet Maryland strolls into our gym and embarrasses us with 3 freshmen in their lineup. Maryland freshmen guard Cowan looks more polished then the 4th,5th ,and 6th year players we have on our roster. But let me clarify when Ii said sit Malcolm as well as the other seniors I wasnt talking about for a entire games or that they shouldnt even start. But the reality is that this program is in a awkward position because the head coach needs to win but the facts are that these seniors never have so there is no zero evidence that hey are the key to this program being successful even now they are just the devil you know.
But even still my issue is not so much that Groce leans on the seniors its the fact that he doesnt seem to demand the focus,consistency and energy that most teams get from leaning on their seniors . Can you honestly say wit ha straight face that you have watched Malcolm in those games I listed and some of the other seniors through this season and thought oh man these guys are going all out and playing like there is no tomorrow ?
Im advocating that if hes not playing well you play someone else because thats having depth actually means.
I posted the numbers because its clear that when hes bad hes bad there is no snapping out of it at any moment thats your wishful thinking.
Let me tell you something about the real world
In the real world Malcolm has been featured on this team for 3 seasons and weve gone nowhere and done nothing. To suggest that no matter how bad he plays we should never take him out or hold him accountable his play is utterly ridiculous.
We dont know what anyone else would really do because we have never really gave anyone else that sorta opportunity. Some of you are so set in you ways its easy to see why Groce gets such a huge pass at times. OMG play a freshman over a senior
But let me clarify when Ii said sit Malcolm as well as the other seniors I wasnt talking about for a entire games or that they shouldnt even start. But the reality is that this program is in a awkward position because the head coach needs to win but the facts are that these seniors never have so there is no zero evidence that hey are the key to this program being successful even now they are just the devil you know.
But even still my issue is not so much that Groce leans on the seniors its the fact that he doesnt seem to demand the focus,consistency and energy that most teams get from leaning on their seniors . Can you honestly say wit ha straight face that you have watched Malcolm in those games I listed and some of the other seniors through this season and thought oh man these guys are going all out and playing like there is no tomorrow ?
We're never gonna agree on this.
The Dave
- CA
Not specifically what you're looking for, but you can get some advanced stats here:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/illinois/2017.html
kcib8130
- Parts Unknown
Im advocating that if hes not playing well you play someone else because thats having depth actually means.
I posted the numbers because its clear that when hes bad hes bad there is no snapping out of it at any moment thats your wishful thinking.
Let me tell you something about the real world
In the real world Malcolm has been featured on this team for 3 seasons and weve gone nowhere and done nothing. To suggest that no matter how bad he plays we should never take him out or hold him accountable his play is utterly ridiculous.
We dont know what anyone else would really do because we have never really gave anyone else that sorta opportunity. Some of you are so set in you ways its easy to see why Groce gets such a huge pass at times. OMG play a freshman over a senior
But let me clarify when Ii said sit Malcolm as well as the other seniors I wasnt talking about for a entire games or that they shouldnt even start. But the reality is that this program is in a awkward position because the head coach needs to win but the facts are that these seniors never have so there is no zero evidence that hey are the key to this program being successful even now they are just the devil you know.
But even still my issue is not so much that Groce leans on the seniors its the fact that he doesnt seem to demand the focus,consistency and energy that most teams get from leaning on their seniors . Can you honestly say wit ha straight face that you have watched Malcolm in those games I listed and some of the other seniors through this season and thought oh man these guys are going all out and playing like there is no tomorrow ?
You mean kind of like the Indiana game where we down by 20+ (not sure the actual deficit, but it was borderline insurmountable) and Malcolm single-handedly lead the team back to a 9 point difference and the game was very much in play?
Not sure what your "Real world" is, but everyone and there dog knows that Malcolm is the best player we have and our best chance to win is with him on the floor as much as possible.