Michigan 84, Illinois 70 Postgame

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#677      
OB positive
PepeSilvia said:
I think Michigan played very poorly against Duke and still had a chance to win that game.

Offensively they settled for outside shots and didn't pound the ball inside with their three bigs. But yes I do think their size and physicality on offense travels better but yes all offenses will have some variation from game to game but teams that dominate in the paint will be more consistent and way less susceptible to having a bad shooting game.

If I had to take a guess I would predict that Michigan wins a rematch if they run into Duke in the tournament.

I think at this point there are pretty clearly 3 elite teams in Michigan, Duke, and Arizona and all of those teams share athletic and physical frontcourts that can impose their will inside and don't force them to rely on 3's.
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Dukes front court is every bit as physical as Michigan. They can not rely on that as an advantage like they did us.
 
#678      
BoiseBaller
Second place is 1st loser said:
Not as wild when you consider that he has the most conference wins over the last half decade plus. Which conference coach would you rather have? They're ready to fire Painter, May has not proven that he can sustain success, etc.

This is a conference that hasn't won a national championship since MSU, which was in a different century. Who would you rather have? Take NIL money into consideration. May was handed a fortune to spend.
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This is the quandary I mentioned the other day. The ultimate goal is a NC. But, we know what is can look like with a post-Dee Weber or John Groce at the helm too. I'm in limbo on it.
 
#679      
EmpoweredIllini
BashCtIllini said:
It is very hard to claim Stojakovic has not been a disappointment. You can be good and still be disappointing, because we brought him and paid him to replace 2 NBA 1st round draft picks. Andrej has 0 chance of being drafted after this year. He was supposed to be the alpha. If Wagler hadn't been a diamond in the rough and able to handle the alpha role, I think this team would be a bit of a mess.
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I love this whole “if we didn’t have our AA level best player this team would be not very good” thing we do every year. Did it with Kofi, Ayo, TSJ, KJ and now Wagler.

Newsflash: if you take any teams star player away they’ll be “a bit of a mess”… this isn’t relegated to Illinois nor is it like Nostradamus level logic here lol.

Andrej averaged 18 a game at Cal, he was never going to do that here. We have too many other good players.
 
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#680      
AugustWest
Andrej’s game doesn’t really fit with what Illinois wants to do offensively right now. Not a great shooter from 3. Brad hates the 2 point shot and that’s more of his game besides driving. We’ve seen him defend and rebound when he wants to. Injuries haven’t helped with his development. No doubt we’re going to need him this March, but idk what his role is.
 
#681      
bigcityillini
This is the quandary I mentioned the other day. The ultimate goal is a NC. But, we know what is can look like with a post-Dee Weber or John Groce at the helm too. I'm in limbo on it.
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If you aren’t competing for a NC you are wasting your time. Some might not see it like that. But that’s the actual facts. If we are okay with regular season basketball being what we care about then we should stay the course. But if we care about your national reputation we all know what has to be done. Do we have the stones to do it tho?
 
#682      
Illiniguy13
AugustWest said:
Andrej’s game doesn’t really fit with what Illinois wants to do offensively right now. Not a great shooter from 3. Brad hates the 2 point shot and that’s more of his game besides driving. We’ve seen him defend and rebound when he wants to. Injuries haven’t helped with his development. No doubt we’re going to need him this March, but idk what his role is.
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If Andrej is your first scoring option, you’re Cal. If he’s your 3rd or 4th best scoring option, you’re a good team. On paper, he makes a lot of sense here: a guy who gives us different wrinkles offensively (slashing/cutting/mid range/drawing fouls to add balance to our offense and be a matchup problem). This stuff in theory is quite valuable when shots aren’t falling. When he’s contributing in these ways, we look awesome. He’s just super boom-or-bust based on matchups. Intangibles are lacking.
 
#683      
I-L-L 1318
Indy Illini Fan said:
What have you done lately … Anyone can score against Southern and whoever else in non conference and that’ll inflate the numbers …

February games … Heart of Big Ten Play … Month sample size … 72 points … 28 at the line … 39% of his points … At the line …

And I don’t even need to pull the stats from 3 … Absolutely atrocious … I wouldn’t even guard him from 3 …
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He only put up 23 against the mid-major Texas Tech
 
#684      
Kernal12
Illiniguy13 said:
If Andrej is your first scoring option, you’re Cal. If he’s your 3rd or 4th best scoring option, you’re a good team. On paper, he makes a lot of sense here: a guy who gives us different wrinkles offensively (slashing/cutting/mid range/drawing fouls to add balance to our offense and be a matchup problem). This stuff in theory is quite valuable when shots aren’t falling. When he’s contributing in these ways, we look awesome. He’s just super boom-or-bust based on matchups. Intangibles are lacking.
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Agree with all of this. I think we get the most out of Andrej in the starting lineup, defending the second best perimeter player on the other team. Some games he might be a bust offensively and in those games you get Jake and Ben a bunch more run. Other games he's going to be maybe our second leading scorer, get some good run in the dunker spot or in isolation off the high post. NCAA tournament games are typically a bit more free flowing than B10 games, the type where Andrej can flourish.
 
#685      
joeybcrazy13
Could Be Worse Let It Go GIF
 
#686      
BashCtIllini
EmpoweredIllini said:
I love this whole “if we didn’t have our AA level best player this team would be not very good” thing we do every year. Did it with Kofi, Ayo, TSJ, KJ and now Wagler.

Newsflash: if you take any teams star player away they’ll be “a bit of a mess”… this isn’t relegated to Illinois nor is it like Nostradamus level logic here lol.

Andrej averaged 18 a game at Cal, he was never going to do that here. We have too many other good players.
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There's a huge difference here. Are you going to sit here and tell me, Underwood honestly believed that the Fr. ranked 150 was going to be the teams star in his first season? Do you think when Underwood was planning out the roster he said, well obviously Wagler will lead us in points, assists and steals and be 3rd in rebounds, so let's bring in this guy to compliment him? Come on.

Now if you actually followed what I said and didn't go wild on one sentence it makes perfect sense. Stojakovic has been a disappointment because he was the guy Underwood expected to be the lead scorer. He was the guy they were building the team around, and if the expectation had played out, we would not be a top 10 team.
 
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#690      
Oracle21
BashCtIllini said:
It is very hard to claim Stojakovic has not been a disappointment. You can be good and still be disappointing, because we brought him and paid him to replace 2 NBA 1st round draft picks. Andrej has 0 chance of being drafted after this year. He was supposed to be the alpha. If Wagler hadn't been a diamond in the rough and able to handle the alpha role, I think this team would be a bit of a mess.
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I can’t really say he’s been a disappointment because he’s the exact same player he was at Cal and Stanford as he is here. The staff shouldn’t have expected a different player to show up. He’s already played a ton so you knew what you were getting. High usage guys on bad teams don’t always translate to being effective players on good teams. If you are a sub 30% 3 pt shooter it’s hard to affect the game. I thought early in the season he’d just be an ISO Domask type player. And I think he can still be that vs some teams but running that completely takes the rest of the team out of the flow.

You either gotta be the spread it out, move the ball around the perimeter and look for the open 3, or matchup hunt and let Wagler cook or Stojakovic/Mirk iso in the post. Against Michigan there were no matchups to play. But against some of the weaker teams I think Stojakovic will still be effective.

I’d be surprised if Stojakovic comes back next year. He seems like the type of guy to score the points on bad teams. NBA has plenty of bad team scorers like D Angelo Russell and college is the same way
 
#691      
I-L-L 1318
Indy Illini Fan said:
See earlier post … I already said he did great against Bama and Texas Tech … And even MSU …

Credit where it’s due … Outside of those … Against good teams ??? Mostly a flat out no show or negative impact … And you can’t have that from your highest paid guy … Just can’t …
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Those are 3 great teams though. He's definitely talented. Just needs to have consistent effort and learn to kick the ball on a drive. He or Bam have to get downhill for our offense to work. For a guy who said he came to ILL to play on a winning team and get coached hard, here it is. Hopefully he responds.
 
#692      
EmpoweredIllini
BashCtIllini said:
There's a huge difference here. Are you going to sit here and tell me, Underwood honestly believed that the Fr. ranked 150 was going to be the teams star in his first season? Do you think when Underwood was planning out the roster he said, well obviously Wagler will lead us in points, assists and steals and be 3rd in rebounds, so let's bring in this guy to compliment him? Come on.

Now if you actually followed what I said and didn't go wild on one sentence it makes perfect sense. Stojakovic has been a disappointment because he was the guy Underwood expected to be the lead scorer. He was the guy they were building the team around, and if the expectation had played out, we would not be a top 10 team.
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Framing the Keaton diamond-in-a-rough find as a negative? Wow lol only on Illinois Loyalty, I guess.

So the reason Stojakovic is a disappointment is because he isn't better than a top 5 pick? Lmfao, okay...
 
#693      
Battle89
BashCtIllini said:
There's a huge difference here. Are you going to sit here and tell me, Underwood honestly believed that the Fr. ranked 150 was going to be the teams star in his first season? Do you think when Underwood was planning out the roster he said, well obviously Wagler will lead us in points, assists and steals and be 3rd in rebounds, so let's bring in this guy to compliment him? Come on.

Now if you actually followed what I said and didn't go wild on one sentence it makes perfect sense. Stojakovic has been a disappointment because he was the guy Underwood expected to be the lead scorer. He was the guy they were building the team around, and if the expectation had played out, we would not be a top 10 team.
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Just wanted to back you up - was about to write something very similar
 
#694      
Oracle21
EmpoweredIllini said:
I love this whole “if we didn’t have our AA level best player this team would be not very good” thing we do every year. Did it with Kofi, Ayo, TSJ, KJ and now Wagler.

Newsflash: if you take any teams star player away they’ll be “a bit of a mess”… this isn’t relegated to Illinois nor is it like Nostradamus level logic here lol.

Andrej averaged 18 a game at Cal, he was never going to do that here. We have too many other good players.
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You are missing the point. If things had gone as expected with Wagler not being a superstar, the team would have been rather mediocre. Because the money spent in other places has not worked.

You let Morez Johnson walk bc you wouldn’t exceed what Michigan was gonna pay, and you almost certsinly are paying more for Petro/Andres collectively than Morez got from Michigan. That’s just bad GM’ing in hindsight.

Finding Wagler wipes away lot of incompetence when it comes to what the roster build was. But looking back, the guys that left (Morez, DGL, White) were way better than the guys brought in to replace them (Z, Petro, Andres)
 
#695      
Greensboro
Indy Illini Fan said:
No point in playing him …

Give all his minutes to Jake and Ben …
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Honestly, I'd go the other way the next 2 games. We need to get his confidence back, get him back in the starting lineup. Let him play through some mistakes, we have 2 games left to get him playing like the guy we think /thought he can be. we need an athletic wing who can play defense and draw fouls.
 
#697      
EmpoweredIllini
Oracle21 said:
You are missing the point. If things had gone as expected with Wagler not being a superstar, the team would have been rather mediocre. Because the money spent in other places has not worked.

You let Morez Johnson walk bc you wouldn’t exceed what Michigan was gonna pay, and you almost certsinly are paying more for Petro/Andres collectively than Morez got from Michigan. That’s just bad GM’ing in hindsight.

Finding Wagler wipes away lot of incompetence when it comes to what the roster build was. But looking back, the guys that left (Morez, DGL, White) were way better than the guys brought in to replace them (Z, Petro, Andres)
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I am most certainly NOT missing any point. If Wagler this, if Wagler that. Woulda coulda shoulda stuff from you guys here... Anyway, hey... we live in this current reality... where he is a star.

If you take Cameron Boozer off of Duke, they're not as good... right?
If you take AJ Dybansta off of BYU, they're not as good... right?
If you take Caleb Wilson off of UNC, they're not as good.... right?

Finding these players wipes away incompetence? GTFOH :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

If you can rag on the staff for inbounds plays or defensive breakdowns or whatever else, then you can give them credit for finding Keaton Wagler... this is 100% fair

EDIT: Also, what in the world does Morez Johnson have to do with this discussion? You guys are now just bouncing around between different things to complain about now.... just showing your frustration and inability to think clearly and have any kind of unbiased or fair discussion about literally anything at this point... absolutely miserable people, good grief.
 
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#698      
Oracle21
EmpoweredIllini said:
You're missing the point, too. If Wagler this, if Wagler that. But, hey... we live in this reality... where he is a star.

If you take Cameron Boozer off of Duke, they're not as good... right?
If you take AJ Dybansta off of BYU, they're not as good... right?
If you take Caleb Wilson off of UNC, they're not as good.... right?

Finding these players wipes away incompetence? GTFOH :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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Except Boozer, Dybantsa, and Wilson were top rated guys that were paid big bucks by those teams and counted on to be franchise players. Those dudes weren’t found. They were the biggest investments on their teams.

Wagler wasn’t counted on to be a franchise player, and he was paid very little to come here.
 
#699      
EmpoweredIllini
Oracle21 said:
Except Boozer, Dybantsa, and Wilson were top rated guys that were paid big bucks by those teams and counted on to be franchise players. Those dudes weren’t found. They were the biggest investments on their teams.

Wagler wasn’t counted on to be a franchise player, and he was paid very little to come here.
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So we got Keaton at a huge discount and that's bad? We found a player that none of the big brain elite blue blood coaches did and that's also bad?

You guys just make stuff up as you go, lol absolutely horrendous & embarrassing take there
 
#700      
Heisenbobble
Except Boozer, Dybantsa, and Wilson were top rated guys that were paid big bucks by those teams and counted on to be franchise players. Those dudes weren’t found. They were the biggest investments on their teams.

Wagler wasn’t counted on to be a franchise player, and he was paid very little to come here.
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You're screaming into the wind on this one, my dude. I completely agree with you by the way, but the poster you're discussing this with only wants to see what they see. Probably best to move along. JMHO.
 
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