NBA/Pro/International Basketball

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#351      
I see a bit of an issue with comparing a 7 game series to the Super Bowl, which is a singular event and perhaps the last existing remnant of the Monoculture, and draws in fans that don't even care about the game (primarily as a showcase for big budget entertaining ads and a hyped-up halftime show).

This also misses the point that most pro sports viewership is down since the 90s. MLB is down (as seen on the graph). NASCAR has been in a gradual decline since about 2005. NHL has been struggling. It used to just be that a huge chunk of people would watch whatever sport was on, but now those people's interest is pulled in different ways by all the options that exist now but did not exist in the 90s. TV shows also don't get the kinds of ratings they used to.

What the NBA has that other US pro leagues don't is a rabid fanbase abroad. Which probably is a factor in the NBA being the 2nd largest pro league in the world for revenue generation (behind the NFL). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue

The NBA is doing fine. They are selling a product that a lot of people like.

The major problem for the NBA is that their media personalities do a HORRIBLE job of selling the game and just endlessly do "back in my day" takes or talk about drama stories like a soap opera. The NBA game has become increasingly complex schematically on both sides of the ball and they are doing themselves a massive disservice from highlighting that the same way the NFL broadcasts do.
 
#352      
The major problem for the NBA is that their media personalities do a HORRIBLE job of selling the game and just endlessly do "back in my day" takes or talk about drama stories like a soap opera. The NBA game has become increasingly complex schematically on both sides of the ball and they are doing themselves a massive disservice from highlighting that the same way the NFL broadcasts do.
Absolutely. They need to start hiring people who actually understand the game to talk about the game. Can you imagine if the face of an NFL broadcast was some linebacker from the leather helmet era talking about how the forward pass ruined football? Or even if they spent all their time complaining about how protected QBs are today and how onerous concussion protocol is?
 
#353      
Absolutely. They need to start hiring people who actually understand the game to talk about the game. Can you imagine if the face of an NFL broadcast was some linebacker from the leather helmet era talking about how the forward pass ruined football? Or even if they spent all their time complaining about how protected QBs are today and how onerous concussion protocol is?

Whoever thought having Kendrick Perkins be a major contributor to anything must have been out of their mind.
 
#354      
Absolutely. They need to start hiring people who actually understand the game to talk about the game. Can you imagine if the face of an NFL broadcast was some linebacker from the leather helmet era talking about how the forward pass ruined football? Or even if they spent all their time complaining about how protected QBs are today and how onerous concussion protocol is?
Stacey King and Adam Amin are a rare exception for bulls broadcasts, they are entertaining and excellent commentators.
so painful to watch any other regional coverage, so terrible by comparison
 
#355      
NBA discourse is becoming something like music or SNL discourse. Everyone's idea of the best version seems to coincide with when they were 15-25 years old. Everything older is lesser, and everything after is a perversion of the highest form.
We really only truly appreciate the greatness of anyone once they have left the spotlight.
 
#357      
I see a bit of an issue with comparing a 7 game series to the Super Bowl, which is a singular event and perhaps the last existing remnant of the Monoculture, and draws in fans that don't even care about the game (primarily as a showcase for big budget entertaining ads and a hyped-up halftime show).

This also misses the point that most pro sports viewership is down since the 90s. MLB is down (as seen on the graph). NASCAR has been in a gradual decline since about 2005. NHL has been struggling. It used to just be that a huge chunk of people would watch whatever sport was on, but now those people's interest is pulled in different ways by all the options that exist now but did not exist in the 90s. TV shows also don't get the kinds of ratings they used to.

What the NBA has that other US pro leagues don't is a rabid fanbase abroad. Which probably is a factor in the NBA being the 2nd largest pro league in the world for revenue generation (behind the NFL). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue

The NBA is doing fine. They are selling a product that a lot of people like.
True. You can’t directly compare Super Bowl viewership to NBA Finals viewership, but we can look at what the Super Bowl viewership was in the past and compare that to the present to see whether or not viewership is increasing and we can do the same thing for the NBA Finals.

Here’s the data (done by hand, so apologies if any of this isn’t 100% accurate).

Between 1990-1999, on average, the Super Bowl received 85.8M viewers.

Over the past 3 Super Bowls, it has received an average of 121.5M viewers.

That is a 41.6% increase in viewership.

Compare that to the NBA Finals.

Between 1990-1990, the NBA Finals averaged 23.9M viewers on average.

Over the last 3 season, the NBA Finals has received 11.78M viewers.

That is a 50.7% decrease in viewership.

That’s… not good.
 
#358      
True. You can’t directly compare Super Bowl viewership to NBA Finals viewership, but we can look at what the Super Bowl viewership was in the past and compare that to the present to see whether or not viewership is increasing and we can do the same thing for the NBA Finals.

Here’s the data (done by hand, so apologies if any of this isn’t 100% accurate).

Between 1990-1999, on average, the Super Bowl received 85.8M viewers.

Over the past 3 Super Bowls, it has received an average of 121.5M viewers.

That is a 41.6% increase in viewership.

Compare that to the NBA Finals.

Between 1990-1990, the NBA Finals averaged 23.9M viewers on average.

Over the last 3 season, the NBA Finals has received 11.78M viewers.

That is a 50.7% decrease in viewership.

That’s… not good.
Yes but this ignores all the other context in that prior post. Sports viewership overall is down. The viewership a smash hit show pulls today would have gotten a show cancelled on the 90s. The Superbowl has resisted this downward pull caused by the explosion of entertainment options because 1) football is king in the US and the Super Bowl is a singular event that is the pinnacle event of that sport and 2) it isn't just a sports event, but a cultural event, so it pulls it millions of viewers that don't care at all about the game itself.

So the divergence between NBA Finals viewership and Super Bowl viewership has precisely nothing to do with the quality of the NBA product and everything to do with the fact that basketball (and baseball, and hockey, and soccer, and auto racing) is not football.
 
#359      
Yes but this ignores all the other context in that prior post. Sports viewership overall is down. The viewership a smash hit show pulls today would have gotten a show cancelled on the 90s. The Superbowl has resisted this downward pull caused by the explosion of entertainment options because 1) football is king in the US and the Super Bowl is a singular event that is the pinnacle event of that sport and 2) it isn't just a sports event, but a cultural event, so it pulls it millions of viewers that don't care at all about the game itself.

So the divergence between NBA Finals viewership and Super Bowl viewership has precisely nothing to do with the quality of the NBA product and everything to do with the fact that basketball (and baseball, and hockey, and soccer, and auto racing) is not football.

But isn’t this the true crux of what the “viewership is down” argument is trying to convey? (Full disclosure, I don’t watch the NBA and barely care about the NFL, so no stake in the game)

Maybe the emphasis of the argument needs to shy away from the “how players bring the orange ball down the floor and subsequently put it in the orange hoop” and more that the NBA (among other sports) is losing ground as a societally relevant, cultural event.

Edit: Just re-read your last paragraph where you basically already stated what I said. My bad.
 
#360      
That NBA/MLB/ NFL graph follows my adult lifetime. And it pretty mirrors my level of fandom 1980 to present. Personally for me the NFL would be a bit lower, but still much higher than MLB/NBA. Now if you were to put in NCAA Basketball & Football at the same general starting point, it would be much higher than even the NFL.
 
#364      
Illini play better defense than Santa Cruz.
And the G League teams TSJ walloped play great D? TSJ’s G League performances are met with “he deserves more minutes in NBA,” while Bronny’s very good game is because opponent played bad D? Haters gonna hate I guess. And no I’m not comparing TSJ to Bronny. I think the former will have a much better career.

Reminds me of people’s hot takes on here about Edey and Braden Smith. Lot of people said Edey couldn’t play in NBA. Not that he wouldn’t be a star, but that he couldn’t play in today’s NBA. He’s started 47 games and is averaging 9.2 ppg and 7.7 rpg. Not sure that equates to “can’t play in NBA.”

A large group of “experts” on here laughed when Braden Smith was voted pre-season Big 10 player of the year. No way, his assists are going to plummet without getting all those assists to Edey. His assists, points and steals per game all went up, though to be fair I think his shooting percentages dropped some, and lo and behold he is now the conference player of the year and consensus first team all-American. And to be clear, not saying you were one of those cr@piping on Edey or Smith.
 
#365      
The Bulls have shifted into a gonzo style of basketball that is inadvisable for the long-term good of the franchise, but I can’t deny that it is fun
As long as all the big stats don’t make front office think they still don’t have a ton of work to do, it is fun to watch. After the romp over Lakers, I had a friend text me raving about the big 3 of Matas, Giddy and White. I had to remind him that prior to his 31 in that game, Buz had averaged 6 ppg in previous 6 games. And while White has been putting up big scoring numbers, that’s in large part because of the “gonzo style” they’ve been playing. LaVine could score too, but didn’t make him a #1 on a good team.
 
#366      
No, I wasn't saying Edey couldn't play in the NBA. Can't say that I am rooting for him. I don't remember saying that Smith's assists would drop, but I thought as much. It only makes sense that if you lose a behemoth that you can throw it high to and nobody can stop the pass, then nobody can stop his shot, that your assists would drop. Turns out I was wrong.

After watching the Bronny highlights I had thoughts about the TSJ G-League stats. What do they actually mean? Obviously better than your regular G-league players, but what does that say about his NBA ability? Fortunately he has looked good there too.

Good to have a discussion with you Eyeof, instead of an argument.

ILL !
 
#367      
And the G League teams TSJ walloped play great D? TSJ’s G League performances are met with “he deserves more minutes in NBA,” while Bronny’s very good game is because opponent played bad D? Haters gonna hate I guess. And no I’m not comparing TSJ to Bronny. I think the former will have a much better career.

Reminds me of people’s hot takes on here about Edey and Braden Smith. Lot of people said Edey couldn’t play in NBA. Not that he wouldn’t be a star, but that he couldn’t play in today’s NBA. He’s started 47 games and is averaging 9.2 ppg and 7.7 rpg. Not sure that equates to “can’t play in NBA.”

A large group of “experts” on here laughed when Braden Smith was voted pre-season Big 10 player of the year. No way, his assists are going to plummet without getting all those assists to Edey. His assists, points and steals per game all went up, though to be fair I think his shooting percentages dropped some, and lo and behold he is now the conference player of the year and consensus first team all-American. And to be clear, not saying you were one of those cr@piping on Edey or Smith.
No one on this board is an expert. We’re fans. Fans of the Fighting Illini. Due to that, we’re going to badmouth our rivals and uplift our guys. We’re biased. Incredibly so. And we’re wrong. All the time. If you want to find a group of message board posters who say great things about Braden Smith and Zack Edey, try a Purdue board.
 
#368      
No one on this board is an expert. We’re fans. Fans of the Fighting Illini. Due to that, we’re going to badmouth our rivals and uplift our guys. We’re biased. Incredibly so. And we’re wrong. All the time. If you want to find a group of message board posters who say great things about Braden Smith and Zack Edey, try a Purdue board.
You don’t think more than a few who post on here think they are experts? Hmmm. But heck, I’d take not so much pissing on some of our own Illini players by some posters.
 
#374      
Podz is BP to Curry, who said he was incredible. Playing down the stretch in a nip and tuck big NBA game. Huge 3 at about the one minute mark when LA was almost all the way back.
 
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