I'm glad to see that you both agree to disagree....I really, really am.....too many people in this world today believe that disagreeing is always a bad thing....that it's either my way of thinking or you're dissing my line of thought or life style...disagreement is what strengthens us as a nation and culture ....refusing to examine someone else's reasoning is being closed mined....not saying you should accept it....but at least examine it....GO Illini !!! Beat them HOGS !fair enough .......being a Bulls fan you might like the fact that I knew Jerry Sloan and he played as tough in family reunion games as he did at Evansville and in the NBA.............
I don't come here to get any STATUS ....just wanted to be very clear on that.......I come here to have some fun with my friends and usually i do .....It helps me keep my sanity and discuss what i love the most .....sports in general and BB , MLB , FB and hockey the best .......
I'm done.....I stated my opinions , you stated yours.......case closed.....................HAGD..................
I'd say the 89 team exceeded expectations getting to the final four and being a box out away from the national championship. That is our second best season ever, and would we say that only met expectations?I think the simplified version of what you suggested is the one I put forth ... and I do have that. Using that, these are the Big Ten results. For simplicity's sake, I counted vacated Tournament appearances, and these are obviously pre-2023:
< School: # Appearances (# Exceeding - # Meeting - # Underperforming) >
Michigan State: 31 Total (10 - 14 - 7)
Purdue: 28 Total (5 - 9 - 14)
Indiana: 26 Total (5 - 12 - 9)
Illinois: 24 Total (2 - 11 - 11)
Wisconsin: 24 Total (8 - 9 - 7)
Michigan: 23 Total (8 - 7 - 8)
Maryland: 22 Total (7 - 6 - 9)
Ohio State: 22 Total (6 - 5 - 11)
Iowa: 20 Total (3 - 12 - 5)
Minnesota: 12 Total (4 - 7 - 1)
Nebraska: 7 Total (0 - 5 - 2) ... worth noting they've never won a game!
Penn State: 4 Total (2 - 1 - 1)
Rutgers: 4 Total (1 - 3 - 0)
Northwestern: 1 Total (0 - 1 - 0)
So the only program who's "disappointed" with high seeds as often as we have is Ohio State, but they have made up for it with three times as many years "exceeding expectations." Pretty depressing, lol ... but hey, doesn't this mean we are due?! Seriously, for as many good teams as we have had over the years, we are SERIOUSLY due to make an unexpected run.
ILLINI RESULTS
Exceeded Seed Expectations
2005: #1 seed losing in the National Championship Game
2004: #5 seed losing in the Sweet Sixteen
Met Seed Expectations
2013: #7 seed losing in the Second Round
2011: #9 seed losing in the Second Round
2007: #12 seed losing in the First Round
2002: #4 seed losing in the Sweet Sixteen
1998: #5 seed losing in the Second Round
1997: #6 seed losing in the Second Round
1995: #11 seed losing in the First Round
1994: #8 seed losing in the First Round
1993: #6 seed losing in the Second Round
1989: #1 seed losing in the Final Four
1985: #3 seed losing in the Sweet Sixteen
Underperformed Seed Expectations
2022: #4 seed losing in the Second Round
2021: #1 seed losing in the Second Round
2009: #5 seed losing in the First Round
2006: #4 seed losing in the Second Round
2003: #4 seed losing in the Second Round
2001: #1 seed losing in the Elite Eight (these are the ones that are harsh...)
2000: #4 seed losing in the Second Round
1990: #5 seed losing in the First Round
1988: #3 seed losing in the Second Round
1987: #3 seed losing in the First Round ... sorry, guys!
1986: #4 seed losing in the Second Round
One alarmingly bizarre stat is that we are 1-5 in Second Round games as a #4 seed ... WTF?? In my head, though, I guess I feel like losing a frustrating game in the Second Round as a #4 seed is archetypal Illinois.
Here are some fun/extreme examples from other Big Ten schools!
Exceeded Seed Expectations
2015: #7 seed Michigan State losing in the Final Four
2002: #5 seed Indiana losing in the National Championship Game
2000: #8 seed Wisconsin losing in the Final Four
2000: #6 seed Purdue losing in the Elite Eight
1989: #11 seed Minnesota losing in the Sweet Sixteen
Underperformed Seed Expectations
2021: #2 seed Ohio State losing in the First Round
2016: #2 seed Michigan State losing in the First Round
2006: #3 seed Iowa losing in the First Round
1996: #1 seed Purdue losing in the Second Round
1995: #3 seed Michigan State losing in the First Round
1991: #3 seed Nebraska losing in the First Round ... the one that got away!!
1986: #3 seed Indiana losing in the First Round
1985: #1 seed Michigan losing in the Second Round
Enjoy, and apologies for any errors!! Bottom line, Illini Nation - it's time we got some luck in March, why not this year?!
No, of course not on a "case-by-case basis," and I would have LOVED to have been around for that season. However, I did not have the time to go look at every single season, especially for every single Big Ten team, over that timeframe and make judgements like that; I barely had time to do what I did, so I had to stick to some type of objective measure. However, I would love to go back and do the +/- thing someone mentioned when I have the time. When I actually look at Illini seasons (that I can remember, starting with 2000-01), I would personally rank them like this:I'd say the 89 team exceeded expectations getting to the final four and being a box out away from the national championship. That is our second best season ever, and would we say that only met expectations?
Man, the 2001 screw job against Arizona. I was at that game. Our freshmen and walk-ons almost took them down but we couldn't quite get there. It would have been a great win coming off the Kansas win.No, of course not on a "case-by-case basis," and I would have LOVED to have been around for that season. However, I did not have the time to go look at every single season, especially for every single Big Ten team, over that timeframe and make judgements like that; I barely had time to do what I did, so I had to stick to some type of objective measure. However, I would love to go back and do the +/- thing someone mentioned when I have the time. When I actually look at Illini seasons (that I can remember, starting with 2000-01), I would personally rank them like this:
ILLINI RESULTS
Exceeded Seed Expectations
2022: #4 seed losing in the Second Round (was disappointed with no Sweet Sixteen, but I never thought we were beating Houston, unfortunately ... plus the first Big Ten championship banner since 2005 and after the snub in 2021 helped ease the sting for me.)
2013: #7 seed losing in the Second Round (after how we finished the season, I considered the win against CU and taking Miami to the brink a win.)
2005: #1 seed losing in the National Championship Game (goes without saying)
2004: #5 seed losing in the Sweet Sixteen (you could definitely see the flashes when we WHOOPED Cincinnati!)
2002: #4 seed losing in the Sweet Sixteen (this was after losing some key pieces from an Elite Eight team and some ups and downs that year, after all!)
Met Seed Expectations
2011: #9 seed losing in the Second Round
2007: #12 seed losing in the First Round
2001: #1 seed losing in the Elite Eight (making the Final Four is tough, and Arizona was damn good ... especially with it being 5 on 8)
Underperformed Seed Expectations
2021: #1 seed losing in the Second Round (loved this team, but this was a TRULY gut-wrenching loss.)
2009: #5 seed losing in the First Round (met my expectations after losing Chet, but we honestly still should have squeaked by WKU as a #5 seed.)
2006: #4 seed losing in the Second Round (really thought Dee and James could get us back to the Sweet Sixteen at least ... MAN was my perspective warped toward extreme success at this point! )
2003: #4 seed losing in the Second Round (after winning the BTT and with it being Cook's senior year, I expected way more than the Second Round.)
For better or for worse, I have absolutely no expectations - positive or negative - for this year's team... lol.
Arizona State defeats Nevada 98-73. Sun Devils will face TCU on Friday night in Denver.
I think game was more about Nevada than ASU.I’m feeling pretty good about ASU over TCU
In typical Alford fashion his team fizzlesI think game was more about Nevada than ASU.
They pay those guys?ESPN is wasting a lot of salary $ on really bad analysts. Can't say I am shocked.
based on Vegas lines - I would say unlikely.can all of the b1g ten teams get through the first round, for once?
I'd love this (though an Indiana upset would not make me at all mad! lol...), but I don't think Maryland can outlast West Virginia from what I've seen so far. WVU looks like the better team, regardless of who is currently on a run. JMO. In my bracket, I have:can all of the b1g ten teams get through the first round, for once?
Probably not as the B1G tends to under-perform in the tournament.can all of the b1g ten teams get through the first round, for once?
What's weird, though, is this really only started in 2021 ... I think the missed Tournament in 2020 kind of messed with people's sense of time (i.e., pre-COVID seems like a really long time ago), but the Big Ten actually did quite well in the 2019 NCAA Tournament, placing MSU in the Final Four, Purdue in the Elite Eight (and a FREAK loss away from a Final Four...), Michigan in the Sweet Sixteen and Maryland/Minnesota/Iowa all winning their first games to make it to the Second Round.Probably not as the B1G tends to under-perform in the tournament.
Numerous reasons have been postulated as to why. Doesnt matter really.
The B1G rarely has more than 1 team in the Elite Eight
So lets over perform this year.Probably not as the B1G tends to under-perform in the tournament.
Numerous reasons have been postulated as to why. Doesnt matter really.
The B1G rarely has more than 1 team in the Elite Eight