NFL Thread 2022-2023

#103      
Bears have been completely outplayed and outclassed in this game and just took a lead in the 4th quarter on the Niners.
Yeah, I mean it's important to note that a couple of flashes of improvisation notwithstanding, Fields is still hitting none of the development milestones of a starting quarterback in the NFL let alone a star and with unequivocally the worst supporting cast in the league it is guaranteed that he will not and the new Bears regime is essentially just burning him and letting his failure be an excuse to blame the Pace/Nagy regime for everything.

The salary cap situation Poles inherited was a total mess, I can see why aggressive tanking looked like an appealing option, but I'm not sure they've really thought through the implications of using Fields as a cynical sacrificial lamb this way.

And as a Bears fan, it's pretty exhausting to have both the old regime and the new engaging more in job-justifying propaganda campaigns than trying to build a winning football team in the last two years, and I don't know why the media continues to go along with it.
 
#104      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
Yeah, I mean it's important to note that a couple of flashes of improvisation notwithstanding, Fields is still hitting none of the development milestones of a starting quarterback in the NFL let alone a star and with unequivocally the worst supporting cast in the league it is guaranteed that he will not and the new Bears regime is essentially just burning him and letting his failure be an excuse to blame the Pace/Nagy regime for everything.

The salary cap situation Poles inherited was a total mess, I can see why aggressive tanking looked like an appealing option, but I'm not sure they've really thought through the implications of using Fields as a cynical sacrificial lamb this way.

And as a Bears fan, it's pretty exhausting to have both the old regime and the new engaging more in job-justifying propaganda campaigns than trying to build a winning football team in the last two years, and I don't know why the media continues to go along with it.
And on top of everything you note, ownership seems to be trying to distract the fanbase with all the Arlington razzle-dazzle.
 
#105      
So I realize conditions were a mess and that certainly impacted offensive execution for both teams. That said, Bears with barely 200 yards of offense, 11 fewer plays, and lost the time of possession battle.

For the past 20+ years, the Bears have been putting up 18-20 points and leaning on their defense to carry the day, and it hasn’t consistently worked. With the modern nfl rules the margin of error is just too small to consistently win that way. So why are they trying this strategy yet again?

Aside from the move to AH, I don’t understand a thing they are doing.
 
#106      
So why are they trying this strategy yet again?
Let's be clear, the strategy is to tank to get the salary cap situation back in better shape and amass draft capital, and the good news on that front is that as soon as next offseason there will be a ton of payroll flexibility, Poles has really maximized that. The current roster situation is extremely temporary and the mission Eberflus has been handed for this season is to make the best of what little he has and keep things respectable and culturally positive while he waits to get some real players.

The bad news is that in the NFL when you don't have a quarterback you're nowhere, and the Bears don't have a quarterback. The frustrating thing for me is this game of make believe about Fields when the roster decisions of giving him the worst OL and WR groups in the entire league show the truth that Poles & Co don't actually believe in him whatsoever and he's being thrown to the wolves as a sacrificial lamb.

If you did believe in Fields as an upper level QB, you limp the salary cap situation along and put a real offense around him in a make-or-break development year, because the value of developing a good QB dwarfs even a big chunk of extra cap space. When you don't believe in Fields, you trade him immediately for what value he has left (you could probably have gotten a 2nd for him in the offseason) and ride things out with a stopgap the way they are doing at basically every other position.

What's being done with Fields is being done for media-management reasons, fake hope on the front end and a performance of blame for the previous regime on the back end. That's really cynical and gross and I wish more people were calling it out.
 
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#107      
Let's be clear, the strategy is to tank to get the salary cap situation back in better shape and amass draft capital, and the good news on that front is that as soon as next offseason there will be a ton of payroll flexibility, Poles has really maximized that. The current roster situation is extremely temporary and the mission Eberflus has been handed for this season is to make the best of what little he has and keep things respectable and culturally positive while he waits to get some real players.

The bad news is that in the NFL when you don't have a quarterback you're nowhere, and the Bears don't have a quarterback. The frustrating thing for me is this game of make believe about Fields when the roster decisions of giving him the worst OL and WR groups in the entire league show the truth that Poles & Co don't actually believe in him whatsoever and he's being thrown to the wolves as a sacrificial lamb.

If you did believe in Fields as an upper level QB, you limp the salary cap situation along and put a real offense around him in a make-or-break development year, because the value of developing a good QB dwarfs even a big chunk of extra cap space. When you don't believe in Fields, you trade him immediately for what value he has left (you could probably have gotten a 2nd for him in the offseason) and ride things out with a stopgap the way they are doing at basically every other position.

What's being done with Field is being done for media-management reasons, fake hope on the front end and a performance of blame for the previous regime on the back end. That's really cynical and gross and I wish more people were calling it out.

That’s fair and makes more sense, thank you.

And completely agree on the grossness of the Fields situation. Whether he does or does not develop into an NFL starter, he deserves much better.
 
#108      

Illwinsagain

Cary, IL
Let's be clear, the strategy is to tank to get the salary cap situation back in better shape and amass draft capital, and the good news on that front is that as soon as next offseason there will be a ton of payroll flexibility, Poles has really maximized that. The current roster situation is extremely temporary and the mission Eberflus has been handed for this season is to make the best of what little he has and keep things respectable and culturally positive while he waits to get some real players.

The bad news is that in the NFL when you don't have a quarterback you're nowhere, and the Bears don't have a quarterback. The frustrating thing for me is this game of make believe about Fields when the roster decisions of giving him the worst OL and WR groups in the entire league show the truth that Poles & Co don't actually believe in him whatsoever and he's being thrown to the wolves as a sacrificial lamb.

If you did believe in Fields as an upper level QB, you limp the salary cap situation along and put a real offense around him in a make-or-break development year, because the value of developing a good QB dwarfs even a big chunk of extra cap space. When you don't believe in Fields, you trade him immediately for what value he has left (you could probably have gotten a 2nd for him in the offseason) and ride things out with a stopgap the way they are doing at basically every other position.

What's being done with Fields is being done for media-management reasons, fake hope on the front end and a performance of blame for the previous regime on the back end. That's really cynical and gross and I wish more people were calling it out.
I appreciate your insight. I didn't really follow the off season very closely and haven't for a few years. I was pleasantly surprised with the win yesterday. Too bad that they best offensive play call that the Bears had yesterday was a SF penalty. If they could keep having their opponents rack up 12 penalties for 100 yards, it might work out ok.
 
#109      

Illiniaaron

Geneseo, IL
Yeah, I mean it's important to note that a couple of flashes of improvisation notwithstanding, Fields is still hitting none of the development milestones of a starting quarterback in the NFL let alone a star and with unequivocally the worst supporting cast in the league it is guaranteed that he will not and the new Bears regime is essentially just burning him and letting his failure be an excuse to blame the Pace/Nagy regime for everything.

The salary cap situation Poles inherited was a total mess, I can see why aggressive tanking looked like an appealing option, but I'm not sure they've really thought through the implications of using Fields as a cynical sacrificial lamb this way.

And as a Bears fan, it's pretty exhausting to have both the old regime and the new engaging more in job-justifying propaganda campaigns than trying to build a winning football team in the last two years, and I don't know why the media continues to go along with it.
It never made sense to me that if you were not going to fire Pace and Nagy after after the 2020 season, and allow Pace to pick Fields at #10 in the first round in the 2021 draft, how you could fire them after the 2021 season. I thought for sure that at least Pace had been given a certain number of years of job security, even though it wasn't deserved. It has never sounded to me like Eberfluss and Poles have been overly-excited about Fields, especially Poles. That's the problem with bringing in a new regime a year after firing the previous one that used a high no. 1 to draft a qb. Fields isn't "their guy." I hope that Fields can somehow develop and look like the answer at qb by the end of the season. If not, they will be using another first round pick to draft a qb in 2023 and the franchise will have wasted another several seasons.
 
#110      
It never made sense to me that if you were not going to fire Pace and Nagy after after the 2020 season, and allow Pace to pick Fields at #10 in the first round in the 2021 draft, how you could fire them after the 2021 season.
Preaching to the choir, man.

Only a total clueless failure of an organization would allow a clearly win-or-be-fired Ryan Pace to trade future draft capital to move up and take a quarterback. He openly booby trapped the roster on purpose in broad daylight in a cynical effort to preserve his job and the Bears leadership just let it happen. Just astonishing stuff.

Now, none of that is Ryan Poles' fault. What is his fault is using that quarterback as a media propaganda vehicle to mask the stink of his cynical, maximalist tanking rather than turning him into an asset that can help with that process. Just really ugly stuff, and I feel terrible for Fields who has been treated as a narrative pawn rather than a football player by both of the GM regimes in his short career that is going to be over before it ever starts.

The NFL isn't like other leagues, I don't want to get too mad about bottoming out in a season that was going nowhere anyway, and Poles will be judged on whether he can put a decent roster together and identify the QB to lead it over the longer term. But that QB is not Fields, and if you believe otherwise, it's important to understand and recognize that Poles doesn't and never has.
 
#111      
Preaching to the choir, man.

Only a total clueless failure of an organization would allow a clearly win-or-be-fired Ryan Pace to trade future draft capital to move up and take a quarterback. He openly booby trapped the roster on purpose in broad daylight in a cynical effort to preserve his job and the Bears leadership just let it happen. Just astonishing stuff.

Now, none of that is Ryan Poles' fault. What is his fault is using that quarterback as a media propaganda vehicle to mask the stink of his cynical, maximalist tanking rather than turning him into an asset that can help with that process. Just really ugly stuff, and I feel terrible for Fields who has been treated as a narrative pawn rather than a football player by both of the GM regimes in his short career that is going to be over before it ever starts.

The NFL isn't like other leagues, I don't want to get too mad about bottoming out in a season that was going nowhere anyway, and Poles will be judged on whether he can put a decent roster together and identify the QB to lead it over the longer term. But that QB is not Fields, and if you believe otherwise, it's important to understand and recognize that Poles doesn't and never has.
Agree with some but....the team I saw yesterday didn't look like they are trying to tank this season and I'm trying to figure out how some people think Fields is not their quarterback at this early juncture. Nagy did nothing with/for Fields and this administration hasn't had a large enough sample to determine his value yet. Cap room is much better next season and we have a 1st rounder available next year. Why can't we coach em up the best we can this year and really get the rebuild going next year? Poles needed this year to really see what he has to work with and where he needs changes. Glass half full...!!!
 
#112      

Shane Walsh

aka "Captain Oblivious"
Cynthiana, Kentucky
Glass half full for me too. That 4th quarter yesterday was fun. Crowd loud, teammates supporting each other, Fields leading. Get him more support next year and use this year as a try out for everyone on the roster.
 
#113      
Preaching to the choir, man.

Only a total clueless failure of an organization would allow a clearly win-or-be-fired Ryan Pace to trade future draft capital to move up and take a quarterback. He openly booby trapped the roster on purpose in broad daylight in a cynical effort to preserve his job and the Bears leadership just let it happen. Just astonishing stuff.

Now, none of that is Ryan Poles' fault. What is his fault is using that quarterback as a media propaganda vehicle to mask the stink of his cynical, maximalist tanking rather than turning him into an asset that can help with that process. Just really ugly stuff, and I feel terrible for Fields who has been treated as a narrative pawn rather than a football player by both of the GM regimes in his short career that is going to be over before it ever starts.

The NFL isn't like other leagues, I don't want to get too mad about bottoming out in a season that was going nowhere anyway, and Poles will be judged on whether he can put a decent roster together and identify the QB to lead it over the longer term. But that QB is not Fields, and if you believe otherwise, it's important to understand and recognize that Poles doesn't and never has.
Is it possible that Poles isn’t sure what he has in Fields yet? I doubt Fields will do much to damage his potential trade value this season. He didn’t exactly set the world on fire last year. If they don’t think he’s the guy then they will move on. I really like what Poles has done so far. Seems to have a good eye for talent but too early to know for sure.

You said it right that you have nothing if you don’t have your quarterback in the NFL. I think Poles is unsure if Fields can be that guy or not at this point. Neither trading him or building around him make sense yet if you are still evaluating.
 
#114      
Neither trading him or building around him make sense yet if you are still evaluating.
Well look, don't take my word for it, the season will tell the tale.

But the facts are that no effort whatsoever was put into assembling an NFL-caliber OL or WR group for this season, Fields has no chance to make any development steps this season and the failure to do so at this critical juncture basically ends his chance at a meaningful career, and a couple of clutch broken plays in a comedy weather game don't change the fact that this is one of the worst teams in the league that is going to embarrass itself on offense every week.

And when it happens, know that Poles designed it that way, that's the important part. It's not a surprise to anyone paying attention. Poles did not give himself anything to evaluate, this is not an NFL offense around Fields, he has no opportunity to make any strides at all with no one to throw to and no time to do it. And yet he's going to take every ounce of the blame as Pace and Nagy's lazy bust. It's going to get ugly and all of it has been stage managed to point the media firepower away from the current regime.

I don't feel radically different on defense for the record, but Gordon and Brisker are two guys this regime has actually spent capital on and believes in, and I'm willing to entertain the notion that perhaps Eberflus can bring back Eddie Jackson the special, instinctive playmaker, and that would be a big deal for that unit this year who would then have difference makers at all three levels. The question then becomes what the situation would look like without Robert Quinn and Roquan Smith.
 
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#115      
Well look, don't take my word for it, the season will tell the tale.

But the facts are that no effort whatsoever was put into assembling an NFL-caliber OL or WR group for this season, Fields has no chance to make any development steps this season and the failure to do so at this critical juncture basically ends his chance at a meaningful career, and a couple of clutch broken plays in a comedy weather game don't change the fact that this is one of the worst teams in the league that is going to embarrass itself on offense every week.

And when it happens, know that Poles designed it that way, that's the important part. It's not a surprise to anyone paying attention. Poles did not give himself anything to evaluate, this is not an NFL offense around Fields, he has no opportunity to make any strides at all with no one to throw to and no time to do it. And yet he's going to take every ounce of the blame as Pace and Nagy's lazy bust. It's going to get ugly and all of it has been stage managed to point the media firepower away from the current regime.

I don't feel radically different on defense for the record, but Gordon and Brisker are two guys this regime has actually spent capital on and believes in, and I'm willing to entertain the notion that perhaps Eberflus can bring back Eddie Jackson the special, instinctive playmaker, and that would be a big deal for that unit this year who would then have difference makers at all three levels. The question then becomes what the situation would look like without Robert Quinn and Roquan Smith.

So Gritty, have to ask your opinion on whether you think Nagy had any input on the Fields pick, or if Pace knew Nagy was a dead man walking and just threw a Hail Mary trying to save his job?

It seemed to me that what Nagy was trying to do on offense didn’t play to Fields’ strengths and vice versa, and Nagy refused to adjust his play calling at all, with the piece de resistance being the Browns fiasco. To me that felt like Nagy setting up Fields to fail to spite Pace.

If my intuition is correct, in Fields first 2 years he’s had 2 different regimes intentionally set him up to fail. Which is about as bizarre as it gets for a first round QB.
 
#116      
I'm looking at this as Fields 1st year as he has a new coach and OC and coaching philosophy....and the team as a 3 year rebuild so....just looking for growth this year. I also think we had a productive draft for the picks we had...and we definitely look more disciplined this year so far...I just think that 2-3 years is the time to judge the new group...not 1 wet game/WIN.....
 
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#117      
in Fields first 2 years he’s had 2 different regimes intentionally set him up to fail.
Right, that's exactly my view of it. Which sounds too insane to possibly be real, but there's basically no denying it when you look at the facts.

Now, I don't think Pace INTENDED for Fields to fail. He just wanted to make Nagy the fall guy while saving his own skin and took a QB to try and create that outcome.

But using the idea of Justin Fields to advance their own agenda has been the only interest Pace or Poles has ever taken in him, there has never been any organizational effort towards Fields the real life football player.

Contrast with Mitch Trubisky who walked into a mess initially but then was given every resource imaginable to aid in his development and grow him toward success.
 
#118      
Right, that's exactly my view of it. Which sounds too insane to possibly be real, but there's basically no denying it when you look at the facts.

Now, I don't think Pace INTENDED for Fields to fail. He just wanted to make Nagy the fall guy while saving his own skin and took a QB to try and create that outcome.

But using the idea of Justin Fields to advance their own agenda has been the only interest Pace or Poles has ever taken in him, there has never been any organizational effort towards Fields the real life football player.

Contrast with Mitch Trubisky who walked into a mess initially but then was given every resource imaginable to aid in his development and grow him toward success.
Gritty we are just in different spaces on this....my thought is Nagy is the worst thing that happened to Mitch and Fields...Let's see how Mitch does in Pittsburgh...have some faith and give it some time brother...Go Bears!!!
 
#119      
Well look, don't take my word for it, the season will tell the tale.

But the facts are that no effort whatsoever was put into assembling an NFL-caliber OL or WR group for this season, Fields has no chance to make any development steps this season and the failure to do so at this critical juncture basically ends his chance at a meaningful career, and a couple of clutch broken plays in a comedy weather game don't change the fact that this is one of the worst teams in the league that is going to embarrass itself on offense every week.

And when it happens, know that Poles designed it that way, that's the important part. It's not a surprise to anyone paying attention. Poles did not give himself anything to evaluate, this is not an NFL offense around Fields, he has no opportunity to make any strides at all with no one to throw to and no time to do it. And yet he's going to take every ounce of the blame as Pace and Nagy's lazy bust. It's going to get ugly and all of it has been stage managed to point the media firepower away from the current regime.

I don't feel radically different on defense for the record, but Gordon and Brisker are two guys this regime has actually spent capital on and believes in, and I'm willing to entertain the notion that perhaps Eberflus can bring back Eddie Jackson the special, instinctive playmaker, and that would be a big deal for that unit this year who would then have difference makers at all three levels. The question then becomes what the situation would look like without Robert Quinn and Roquan Smith.
Why aren’t Justin Fields and his agent screaming from the rooftops? Why not demand a trade? Not smart enough to see the obvious plan that Poles has?