North Carolina Academic Fraud Investigation

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#226      
rmlsr
My guess is Roy either leaves or retires before the hammer comes down on North Carolina. If it gets that far!
 
#227      
Joel Goodson
rmlsr said:
My guess is Roy either leaves or retires before the hammer comes down on North Carolina. If it gets that far!
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Retires, but, yeah. If NC can't dodge the hammer, he gawn. No way is he going to continue if NC doesn't have a realistic shot at the big prize.
 
#228      
IlliniJim20
JudsonFTS said:
And there is the link to Roy Williams. Ridiculous to think Roy and his staff did not know this was going on. During the second semester, when the team was busy McCants never had a class to attend.....Never.

Walden, the academic advisor in the basketball program knew, but can't recall if he "ever told Williams". Really........
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Plausible deniability. Put someone else in change so I (I.e. Head coach) don't know the details and therefore cannot be held responsible.

Similar to the alleged payments by boosters to players or AAU programs. A coach would have it be an idiot to have his fingerprints on something like this situation.
 
#229      
Combo
DaytonIllini said:
You are right that this would be a good way to get to the bottom of it. OTOH, think of the chutzpah on a loser like McAdoo. A guy who as an adult VOLUNTARILY takes advantage of a system and then turns around and sues over it. There is zero chance (and I mean zero) that these athletes didn't know what they were doing when they took these classes. I would think that this would get thrown out unless he can show that the players were either FORCED to take these classes or DUPED into taking what they believed to be real classes. Otherwise they were willing participants in a conspiracy. I don't think co-conspirators can sue each other for pursuing a fraud.
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I agree 100%. He was a willing participant in the fraud. However, for many, if there's easy money to be made via a lawsuit, character goes out the window.
 
#230      
DaytonaBlue
I keep wondering about the other half of those 3500 students who participated in these sham classes ....the "non-athletes" or regular students. How'd they learn about these classes and who approved their attendance?

They had to get approvals from their instructors and advisors from other departments within the university, right? That means other dept administrators were likely aware of what as going on all along. How do you get 1500-2000 regular students into sham classes and not raise questions about legitimacy of these classes among faculty, advisors, administrators, etc. Doesn't make sense.

Seems like this scandal might be broader/deeper than just Crowder and the athletic dept.
 
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#231      
Deleted member 4723
rmlsr said:
My guess is Roy either leaves or retires before the hammer comes down on North Carolina. If it gets that far!
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This whole situation gives credence to my dislike of Roy Williams. Could never figure out exactly why I disliked him, just something about his overall creepiness. :eek::mad:
 
#232      
illineuron
DaytonIllini said:
You are right that this would be a good way to get to the bottom of it. OTOH, think of the chutzpah on a loser like McAdoo. A guy who as an adult VOLUNTARILY takes advantage of a system and then turns around and sues over it. There is zero chance (and I mean zero) that these athletes didn't know what they were doing when they took these classes. I would think that this would get thrown out unless he can show that the players were either FORCED to take these classes or DUPED into taking what they believed to be real classes. Otherwise they were willing participants in a conspiracy. I don't think co-conspirators can sue each other for pursuing a fraud.
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I don't care about "getting to the bottom of it". I think it would be great theater if someone like Roy got questioned under oath. Never gonna happen. Also there is sufficient documentation and narrative that there is no confusion about what has occurred. Only the most naive or biased perspective allows for any remnants of mystery.

I know nothing about the character of Mr. McAdoo, whether he is a 'loser' or not. Nor do I consider his motives regarding his lawsuit relevant. Unless he was central to the development and sustaining of the fraudulent classes over an estimated 20 year period, it is a stretch at best identify him as a co-conspirator. I'm pretty sure an argument regarding culpability is not one that UNC seeks to pursue in court.

It's an interesting story. It won't change anything in a meaningful way.
 
#233      
JudsonFTS
Whatever little credibility the NC2A has left needs to act here or just start calling it semi-professional sports.
 
#236      
DaytonIllini
AzIlliniFan said:
And why, pray tell, did he feel it necessary to throw that last line in there? :tsk: Certainly speaks to the character of this Powell fellow.
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He wanted to make sure you knew that he was a piece of human waste hardly worth the effort of giving CPR if he collapsed in front of you. That way you are not surprised when he turns out to be a villain in another story. He's really doing us a favor Az. Plus it makes you just wish the guy would blow out something permanently and end up a twisted mass of uselessness.
 
#237      
JudsonFTS
"When asked about UNC basketball coach Roy Williams, Powell called Williams a "snake," and said students sought out classes in which basketball players were enrolled because that was a sure sign there'd be no actual work involved."

Is this for real............
 
#239      
gibb52
If this charade started in the early 90's it would have been the Dean Smith era that benefited first. So 3 NC's would be tainted by all this. Of course every coach will deny any knowledge.
 
#241      
Calvin
DaytonIllini said:
You are right that this would be a good way to get to the bottom of it. OTOH, think of the chutzpah on a loser like McAdoo. A guy who as an adult VOLUNTARILY takes advantage of a system and then turns around and sues over it. There is zero chance (and I mean zero) that these athletes didn't know what they were doing when they took these classes. I would think that this would get thrown out unless he can show that the players were either FORCED to take these classes or DUPED into taking what they believed to be real classes. Otherwise they were willing participants in a conspiracy. I don't think co-conspirators can sue each other for pursuing a fraud.
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It's certainly amusing to think that this, of all things, could actually come back to bite North Carolina. As audacious as it is for the guy benefiting to turn around and sue for wrong-doing, I will take this trade-off all day long if it means the folks running the show are held accountable. North Carolina will almost surely settle out of court and sweep it under the rug, but they will take a monetary hit, which is probably the only thing big institutions understand (short of hand-cuffs).
 
#242      
DaytonIllini
Calvin said:
It's certainly amusing to think that this, of all things, could actually come back to bite North Carolina. As audacious as it is for the guy benefiting to turn around and sue for wrong-doing, I will take this trade-off all day long if it means the folks running the show are held accountable. North Carolina will almost surely settle out of court and sweep it under the rug, but they will take a monetary hit, which is probably the only thing big institutions understand (short of hand-cuffs).
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I think they'll start with a motion for dismissal. If that fails, I suspect you are right. They'll start feeling out what kind of settlement would make this all go away before discovery starts.
 
#243      
alexander58
DaytonIllini said:
I think they'll start with a motion for dismissal. If that fails, I suspect you are right. They'll start feeling out what kind of settlement would make this all go away before discovery starts.
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You would think this story would be more mainstream. Either the media doubts the sources, or they are afraid of where this goes. If these stories are true, you would have to believe it is going on elsewhere. What kind of education do you think the rest of the bluebloods are providing?
 
#244      
DaytonIllini
alexander58 said:
You would think this story would be more mainstream. Either the media doubts the sources, or they are afraid of where this goes. If these stories are true, you would have to believe it is going on elsewhere. What kind of education do you think the rest of the bluebloods are providing?
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I'm not sure the regular students at UK or KU take real classes.

You are right though. It's odd the press doesn't pick up the story. I never understand the press though. They can fixate on a cook who admits she dropped an N bomb 30 years ago. Then they can almost ignore vets dying in the VA for decades. Who knows how these people make determinations? I'm not even sure what constitutes press anymore. When almost every important story is broken by a blogger nowadays, what use is there in having conventional press?
 
#246      
illinoisportsfan
I have a cousin who was a very prominent athlete at UNC back in the 90's and she had nothing but bad things to say about Dean Smith and several other prominent people in the North Carolina athletics department.
 
#247      
illinicb
AzIlliniFan said:
Lawsuits filed by former football and womens basketball players.

http://news.yahoo.com/two-ex-north-carolina-athletes-file-lawsuit-alleging-231240586--nfl.html
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This was inevitable. This goes well beyond the NCAA and some kind of rules violation and the athletic piece is just a component of it. For a very good academic institution to be providing/embracing/enabling/ignoring academic fraud should (I would never say will) have implications to funding accreditation, etc.

BTW, on the surface it would appear that the non-athletic students knew what they were doing in taking these courses. No one forced them to. As for the athletes, I would like to say the same thing, but it is certainly conceivable that there was some implied pressure, but I won't absolve the players of some responsibility based on what I have read so far.
 
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#248      
AzIlliniFan
Out of a morbid curiosity. What sort of job would someone hire a person for with a suspect degree in AA studies or basket weaving or whatever?

I also thought it was funny that the lawsuit was filed in Durham, NC. I wonder if the firm representing them is comprised of pro Duke lawyers ;)
 
#249      
illinoisportsfan
The thing that gets me is that there are already a lot of easy grades out there for student-athletes without having to take things to this level.

I was a student athlete at Eastern Illinois University and we could sign up for one hour of intercollegiate athletics each semester which was a guaranteed A. That amounted to eight hours of A's over your career to boost your GPA.

On top of that, everyone knew the "blow-off" classes where you could basically just show up and get no worse than a B. Some of these included "P.E." classes like bowling, karate, archery, etc, but also music appreciation, and other classes that could be really easy with the right professor. You could take one or two of these every semester.

On top of that, you had the help of tutors and academic support staff.

If an athlete can't stay eligible, they have to either be mentally impaired or just not care enough to make any effort at all.
 
#250      
DaytonIllini
illinoisportsfan said:
The thing that gets me is that there are already a lot of easy grades out there for student-athletes without having to take things to this level.

I was a student athlete at Eastern Illinois University and we could sign up for one hour of intercollegiate athletics each semester which was a guaranteed A. That amounted to eight hours of A's over your career to boost your GPA.

On top of that, everyone knew the "blow-off" classes where you could basically just show up and get no worse than a B. Some of these included "P.E." classes like bowling, karate, archery, etc, but also music appreciation, and other classes that could be really easy with the right professor. You could take one or two of these every semester.

On top of that, you had the help of tutors and academic support staff.

If an athlete can't stay eligible, they have to either be mentally impaired or just not care enough to make any effort at all.
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Or want an actual education, take real classes, and end up being "out of your league" receiving bad grades. I'm not sure taking 'blow off classes' is actually 'making an effort'.
 
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