Northwestern 73, Illinois 60 Postgame

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#326      
illini80
Captain 14 said:
It's funny that it seems now it's up to "us" to keep coming up with NIL cash year after year in order that we can attract the better players. So if we all don't pony up we have no one to blame but ourselves apparently. Actually not funny at all.
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No it's not funny, but it's the truth. Unless they change the rules, the schools can't pay them directly so that leaves the boosters/fans/businesses.
There are probably a handful of schools that will be able to get some top players without paying top dollar. They are the same schools who can pay top dollar if they want to because they've been doing it for years. Of course they don't worry about pesky rules either.
 
#328      
dbeverly26
Get yourself a new map said:
You know who was good at getting the ball into the post? Jake Grandison. We used to run a set with Trent, Jake, Kofi in which Trent would get a ball screen, Kofi kinda rolls but really he’s just setting up to pin his guy in the lane, Trent can shoot off the screen OR has Jake flashing to top of the key (Jake’s defender maybe sags a little to help with the “roll”.) Trent hits Jake, Jake can shoot it or has Kofi posted in the middle of the lane. We were really missing this action against Houston. Do we not have the personnel for this?? Epps, Mayer, Dain should be able to run this set. For reference, you can see it developing in this photo. We destroyed both Wisconsin and Michigan State with this (and various iterations of this).
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I was thinking last night that we could really use him right about now. He was an underrated defender and as far as I know he was ok playing his role.
 
#330      
john1952
Goillinikobd said:
I respect you as one of the Yodas of this Board, resoect that is well earned, but I beg to differ.

I’ve watched Illini basketball for almost half of that century, going back to Otho Tucker, and I have never seen such a public display of MF ing from an Illini head coach. If you have, please name them.
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The strategy is fine to wake up a player once or twice during a game. But to keep up the in your face ranting on a continuous basis across multiple games 1) isn'g working and 2) some players appear to have stopped listening. Competent communication depends on flexibility, time for an alternative apporach.
 
#331      
WyattEarp
jason88cubs said:
I mean is it any worse then Weber saying "Dee couldn't shoot left handed lay ups" , throwing Mccamey under the bus constantly, saying he wish he had players like Hummel

I think Weber gets more hate then he deserves but come on now
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I liked Dee obviously. I was not a huge Weber fan by any means. But I fail to see what is wrong with a coach telling a player that he can’t shoot a left handed lay-up correctly…particularly if it is accurate information. I mean there IS a fundamentally sound/universally accepted way a left-handed layup is supposed be performed after all.


AND He’s the coach. Isn’t it his job to assess such things? I don’t know the context or how it went down. But how is the player supposed to make improvements and strides in doing his consummate best?
 
#332      
PattyOBryant
john1952 said:
The strategy is fine to wake up a player once or twice during a game. But to keep up the in your face ranting on a continuous basis across multiple games 1) isn'g working and 2) some players appear to have stopped listening. Competent communication depends on flexibility, time for an alternative apporach.
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It would be hard to argue that the current tactic is working.

I've had bosses that only knew how to yell and be aggressive to get desired results. I eventually stopped caring. It was the only way they knew how to communicate or "lead". They weren't suddenly going to change their personality.

Let's hope coach knows what he's doing.
 
#333      
JFGsCoffeeMug
For any players on our roster with NBA aspirations, but who can't be bothered to do what the coach is telling them to or buy into team concepts, I am curious how they think this is going to play out. Right now, BU is their current supervisor. NBA teams are going to ask BU about these players and their coachability, work ethic, etc. What he says can either help or hurt them down the line.

Position yourself for success, now and moving forward. Everyone wins or everyone loses.
 
#334      
illini80
PattyOBryant said:
It would be hard to argue that the current tactic is working.

I've had bosses that only knew how to yell and be aggressive to get desired results. I eventually stopped caring. It was the only way they knew how to communicate or "lead". They weren't suddenly going to change their personality.

Let's hope coach knows what he's doing.
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I don’t have a problem with it generally, but I agree. It’s not working so far. He can’t just keep going off if no one is responding. Pretty soon he becomes the story and that’s a really bad look.
 
#335      
PattyOBryant
illini80 said:
I don’t have a problem with it generally, but I agree. It’s not working so far. He can’t just keep going off if no one is responding. Pretty soon he becomes the story and that’s a really bad look.
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I'd go as far as to suggest that the theatrics on the sidelines gets more airtime the more animated/dramatic they become. Not a good look at all.

God knows we all saw plenty of Tom Crean due to his jazzercise routines.
 
#336      
WyattEarp
illini80 said:
I don’t have a problem with it generally, but I agree. It’s not working so far. He can’t just keep going off if no one is responding. Pretty soon he becomes the story and that’s a really bad look.
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Yeah, I agree that the usual torrent of fire and brimstone that Brad so often deploys,
is not not having the desired effect on
this group…and I get the point about
not needing his pressers to become a distraction. But, to be fair…what we’ve seen is still mild compared to just about every active SEC FB coach.

( There’s a part off me that hates seeing Brad-lite…because Brad’s got that blue-collar, gutter mouth, street-fighter vibe…and it’s who he is…and it’s a big part of what makes him great. My pops was a coach, and I was essentially raised by a Brad Underwood-type dude so it isn’t at all shocking to me.)

Another thought, how do we know anything will really motivate these guys any ways? Like I said….He’s already gone to Brad-lite in the pressers. It’s like watching a partially de-clawed house cat.) lol

In truth, I don’t know if any amount of nicene$$ and civil di$course, from the coach (especially at this juncture) is going to to do very much of anything to. combat thi$ level of $elfishness and lack of cohe$ion.

For what is worth, during the 1400 AM radio broadcast of the Women’s game against game Iowa…I heard a very distinct female voice on the Illinois bench loudly shout to the refs: “ this is F_ n terrible” It was clear as day, and at near Fran McCaffery levels. My point is, this sort of thing is pretty common in the Sports world.
 
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#337      
jason88cubs
WyattEarp said:
I liked Dee obviously. I was not a huge Weber fan by any means. But I fail to see what is wrong with a coach telling a player that he can’t shoot a left handed lay-up correctly…particularly if it is accurate information. I mean there IS a fundamentally sound/universally accepted way a left-handed layup is supposed be performed after all.


AND He’s the coach. Isn’t it his job to assess such things? I don’t know the context or how it went down. But how is the player supposed to make improvements and strides in doing his consummate best?
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what I meant was saying it in public. I don't have an exact quote but it was like he was basically saying "Dee can't even shoot left handed, why is there hype around him"
 
#340      
BRucks
Are you tired of watching poor Illini basketball? Would you like to watch exciting Illini basketball? Tune into BTN tonight at 8 central time to watch the Illini gals. Better yet, swing by the Assembly Hall (good tickets only five bucks). This isn't your father's women's squad. There's a new sheriff in town and Coach Green has brought a winning attitude to Ubben. Compare the women's stats to the men's stats if you dare:

2022-23 Women's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - University of Illinois Athletics

The official 2022-23 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for the University of Illinois Fighting Illini
fightingillini.com fightingillini.com

2022-23 Men's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - University of Illinois Athletics

The official 2022-23 Men's Basketball cumulative statistics for the University of Illinois Fighting Illini
fightingillini.com fightingillini.com
 
#342      
nichi
It all boils down to making three point shots.There were a few bad shots from three, but most were open looks in the flow of the offense. They should make 40% plus on those. More than an extra 9 or 12 points, that changes the whole complexion of the game.

Mayer, Shannon, and Hawkins combined were a solid 7 - 17. Epps, Clark, RJ, and Harris were 1-11.

The team was a brutal 3-14 from 3 in the first half; an improved but soso 5-14 in the second half. A lot of the misses were bricks or worse.
 
#343      
Battle89
JFGsCoffeeMug said:
For any players on our roster with NBA aspirations, but who can't be bothered to do what the coach is telling them to or buy into team concepts, I am curious how they think this is going to play out. Right now, BU is their current supervisor. NBA teams are going to ask BU about these players and their coachability, work ethic, etc. What he says can either help or hurt them down the line.

Position yourself for success, now and moving forward. Everyone wins or everyone loses.
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My thoughts also. As someone eloquently put it earlier, playing for the name on the front is the same as playing for the name on the back. I can't understand how these players think this current situation will enhance future opportunities.

Brad is running the Bamboo Lounge and NIL has made the players Paulie.
1672949300165.png
 
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#345      
Roundball Sage
So, the Illini left their collective ‘game’ somewhere back in New York City. Maybe someone can check with Lost and Found because no one wearing Orange seems to have located it.

This does not even resemble the team that we saw the first few games. If we didn’t see their numbers on their backs we would not even know these were the same players.

Maybe it’s a matter of lack of dedication or being complacent. But one must wonder if something not in the public eye happened after New York to account for the Orange Train completely running off the track.

Recent performance notwithstanding... we know there is talent here that did not magically disappear overnight. We know these guys are not playing up to their own personal best. That is starkly obvious. And we know that whatever Coach has tried up until now to fix this has not yet worked.

How do you reach young men these days? How do you motivate them? WHY should you have to motivate them? As I said in a previous post, these guys are living the dream. They are playing ball in front of a passionate fanbase on a high-profile university in the top roundball conference in the Nation? Hello? Do you guys on the court see and feel any of this?

This Season so far is a stark reminder that basketball is not primarily a game of throwing a ball through a hoop. This game is mental and emotional even more than physical. This game cannot be played at a high level without passion and focus.

Coach Underwood seemed to have no problem connecting with Trent and Ayo and Damote, etc. He didn’t suddenly lose his ability to coach basketball or to connect with people.

There clearly seems to be something gone wrong that we in Illini Nation are not privy to. And until and unless we know what that something is... there is no way to propose a useful fix for it.

Maybe the fix is not something that can worked out in a practice. Maybe the fix will be found with some honest and stark conversions going on in the Coach and Assistant’s offices. And with some guys looking into the mirror.

We in Illin Nation are hungry. We all know that. We want to succeed so bad we can taste it. Let’s hope the players can find some of that hunger as well.
 
#348      
IllinialuminAZ
Fighter of the Nightman said:
Okay ... after a night to think on it and relax/calm down a bit, here are my more organized thoughts. I will start with the more obvious bad:

Bad
- We look more lost than I remember in my lifetime as a fan, given the talent on this team. Even with our infuriatingly underachieving Weber/Groce teams from 2010 to 2014 or whatever, I kept watching until the end knowing that we AT LEAST had the ability to jack up some threes and get back in any game, even if we would commit some dumb foul or defensive lapse in the final minute. With this team, I think every single fan watched the beginning of that Northwestern run and knew we were not just going to lose ... we were not seriously going to come back in any real way. Our guys just look like their game plan is to "hope to win" based off of the talent. It's not even that individual players are being "physically" lazy or whatever ... there is just absolutely no cohesion or mental togetherness.
- I doubt I am alone in this, but the absolute astonishment in the difference in play from the Texas win to everything after is just bewildering ... like, what? The scary thing is that I do not think the team or coaches understand it, either. You could phrase this is a silver lining (if we can pinpoint the problem, back to normal!), I guess, but it also means that our floor is effectively a total collapse.
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Appreciate your post after a night to relax and think about it. Here's how I approached the morning:

Angry Office GIF


Seriously, I totally agree with the bolded statements and I think this is why BU is obviously losing his mind. Generally over the years, I could really point to a specific weakness or weaknesses. I mean, I guess I could just say "offense" in general at this point. But the perplexing thing is that we've seen it look good. We know the individual players have talent. But collectively "lost" is a great description for this stretch. I mean, I think we all knew there would be ups and downs, but I'm guessing this down stretch has lasted much longer than anyone expected and has everyone scratching their heads, coaches included.
 
#349      
Emerson Bigguns
john1952 said:
The strategy is fine to wake up a player once or twice during a game. But to keep up the in your face ranting on a continuous basis across multiple games 1) isn'g working and 2) some players appear to have stopped listening. Competent communication depends on flexibility, time for an alternative apporach.
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All we are seeing is the in-game approach. We don't know what conversations are being held outside of the arena. In the moment, when emotions are high and players aren't responding, it's going to be difficult not to get emotional. Would we rather he just sits there quietly with his arms crossed?

You often hear, "The bench is a great motivator." What happens when you run out of people to bench?

Meyer played pretty selfishly most of the time yet was the best player on the team last night. How do you reckon with that as a coach? The guy acts like he doesn't have teammates, but he's also the only one who can put the ball through the rim.

No one else played close to their potential. A lot of lazy and/or reckless basketball. Short stretches of competence followed by jacking quick 3's. We were our own worst enemy.

The refs stunk, but not nearly as much as our team.
 
#350      
Se Il Illini
Roundball Sage said:
So, the Illini left their collective ‘game’ somewhere back in New York City. Maybe someone can check with Lost and Found because no one wearing Orange seems to have located it.

This does not even resemble the team that we saw the first few games. If we didn’t see their numbers on their backs we would not even know these were the same players.

Maybe it’s a matter of lack of dedication or being complacent. But one must wonder if something not in the public eye happened after New York to account for the Orange Train completely running off the track.

Recent performance notwithstanding... we know there is talent here that did not magically disappear overnight. We know these guys are not playing up to their own personal best. That is starkly obvious. And we know that whatever Coach has tried up until now to fix this has not yet worked.

How do you reach young men these days? How do you motivate them? WHY should you have to motivate them? As I said in a previous post, these guys are living the dream. They are playing ball in front of a passionate fanbase on a high-profile university in the top roundball conference in the Nation? Hello? Do you guys on the court see and feel any of this?

This Season so far is a stark reminder that basketball is not primarily a game of throwing a ball through a hoop. This game is mental and emotional even more than physical. This game cannot be played at a high level without passion and focus.

Coach Underwood seemed to have no problem connecting with Trent and Ayo and Damote, etc. He didn’t suddenly lose his ability to coach basketball or to connect with people.

There clearly seems to be something gone wrong that we in Illini Nation are not privy to. And until and unless we know what that something is... there is no way to propose a useful fix for it.

Maybe the fix is not something that can worked out in a practice. Maybe the fix will be found with some honest and stark conversions going on in the Coach and Assistant’s offices. And with some guys looking into the mirror.

We in Illin Nation are hungry. We all know that. We want to succeed so bad we can taste it. Let’s hope the players can find some of that hunger as well.
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In reference to the motivation or lack thereof, remember these players to a person have heard that" they are the best thing since sliced bread" since the second or third grade.
 
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