TJL and Kipper are two very good freshmen. These two don't back down.
Penn State 71, Illinois 67 POSTGAME
MrOizo
- Chicago
Link? I don't believe that's true that Tate had a better +/- than TJL. That said, funny enough I absolutely do not love TJL and I doubt others do. I can't wait for Frazier to arrive and hope he starts over TJL only because TJL still has a long way to go and is a liability in many respects (mainly outside shooting). But compared to Tate and Abrams, TJL is better and it's not close to me.
Without +/-, here are the rough stats:
TJL: 25 mins, 4 pts on 2 for 8 (25%), 2 reb, 3/1 A/TO, 3 steals,
Tate: 15 mins, 0 pts on 0 for 1 (0%), 0 reb, 3/1 A/TO, 0 steals,
Abrams: 15 mins, 2 pts on 1 for 5 (20%), 1 reb, 1/1 A/TO, 1 steal
Those stats are closer than they have been in a long time. Bad stat line by TJL based on recent performances. Normal utter lack of production for Tate and Abrams. Still, the only way Tate has a better +/- is if he happened to be in the game when Malcolm was taking over in the first or second half with lots of isolation, or when JCL's shots started dropping. I didn't see much that I liked from Tate as usual.
MrOizo
- Chicago
I found the Werner Tweet on +/-:
Tate 0 in 15 min
Lucas -7 in 25 min
Abrams -9 in 15 min
Nice find, but I don't think it says much other than we have serious problems at PG... Tate's assist total (3) tell that he happened to be in at the right time when Hill, Morgan, Nichols, and JCL were shooting shots that went in. That said, TJL with 3 assists in 25 minutes was bad, too. He wasn't a difference maker except for that back-to-back run-outs period of the game when he was electric.
Tate 0 in 15 min
Lucas -7 in 25 min
Abrams -9 in 15 min
Nice find, but I don't think it says much other than we have serious problems at PG... Tate's assist total (3) tell that he happened to be in at the right time when Hill, Morgan, Nichols, and JCL were shooting shots that went in. That said, TJL with 3 assists in 25 minutes was bad, too. He wasn't a difference maker except for that back-to-back run-outs period of the game when he was electric.
Lucas brings an obvious swagger and confidence to running the team and pushing action...Tate is well....getting a great education. Abrams could be a faculty member with all his degree's, although you feel for him with the injuries and layoffs.
Either way neither should be starters, neither should be getting bulk minutes, and neither should be doing anything than other spelling the PG for next year as we sit right now...
If Groce has any hope of staying, he better keep playing Lucas in preparation for next year, because we already know he is hesitant to play freshmen a lot.....that said IMO, he will not be here so prep for future anyway
Either way neither should be starters, neither should be getting bulk minutes, and neither should be doing anything than other spelling the PG for next year as we sit right now...
If Groce has any hope of staying, he better keep playing Lucas in preparation for next year, because we already know he is hesitant to play freshmen a lot.....that said IMO, he will not be here so prep for future anyway
What?
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
- OH
Very rec league-esque pass.
the national
- the Front Range
I thought the same thing. Hensen would have yanked the guy out and sat him right next to him on the nench just to keep giving the guy an earfull. John is sometimes too soft with that stuff.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
One of the bigger surprises of the year, considering that "the class" of just TJL was considered last in the BT. :thumb:
This! Has anyone else noticed how horrible the out of bounds plays are? Not to mention the press breaker (irrelevant today but still)
I've played and coached many years and I hate Groce's inbound plays. Need to run at least a couple Flex or Swing offensive sets to get shooters a clean look. SMH Maybe I should email him some stuff. LBS
+1000
Using immediate bench time as a teaching tool seems a proven method. Henson certainly used it. Izzo uses it (did you see him in the recent MSU/PU game.), even MCafferty almost benched all his starters for second half tip last week. I can't recall ever seeing Groce use it mid game.
This JCL pass was clearly a time to use it.....so was PSU getting a layup essentially 1 on 5 in the first half. Maybe an inbound pay or two as well.
I do recall Kendrick getting benched once last year, or 2 years ago for the start of the game, but I believe that was disciplinary rather than based on on court play
Yeah, really like KN, and I have zero complaints about TJL - LOVE him. When you have a true freshman come in and do what he's done, you have to expect a learning curve with mistakes. If you need perfection from him, that's on you, not on him. You'd think with two seniors he'd have a tough time cracking the rotation, but he seems to be ahead of both those guys in a lot of ways. Since Indiana, he's got 10 TO and 27 assists. Not bad for a true freshman in BIG play. He just has an aggressive style that I really like to watch. And yes, he makes mistakes. So did Deron his freshman year. But TJL brings some tools we sorely need.
No way does Groce write off the season and play for the future, but the Seniors had their chance, and it's time for guys like TJL and Kipper to get the benefit of the doubt with minutes.
If we win the next 3, we're back in business. But I'd put our odds of that happening at nearly as low as winning the BTT. Ain't gonna happen. It would be remarkable to win either of Wiscy or @NW, but we're not gonna win them both and also beat Minney.
@PSU was a pick-em game with our backs against the wall. And we decided to show up for the second half. Elite teams can do that sometimes and get away with it. If this group thinks they're one of them, I dont' know what to say.
What would be the downside of Malcolm taking Lucas' rest minutes at PG, with Finke or Nichols, say, filling the gap?
KrushCow31
Former Krush Cow
- Chicago, IL
I'm not shocked by this at all. PSU has played a lot of teams close. They almost beat Indiana, they beat Minnesota, Michigan State, almost Michigan. Their 3 wins were more impressive than ours and their losses were closer.
Last edited:
LOL at... "Was a combo guard coming out of HS," implying he had PG skills out of HS. I have said many times, that whenever I read "combo" with respect to HS recruits, the vast majority of the times it means a player who "should" be playing PG, but does not have PG skills.
JCL is very good shooter, has great form, but I have seen nothing to indicate that he can ever develop into a PG, under any coach. JMO.
Agreed, he's way too sloppy with the ball. When he doesn't get his pocket picked and actually gets into the lane he has shown some good vision and ability to make the right pass, but I think the book on him is out, and it says to double him any time he tries to create and watch him turn it over
Just need a coach that has a head now...
The downside is losing the ball. Hill is not a ball handler and for the life of me I cannot understand why people on here think he is.
Hill is rather clumsy with the ball and add in he's a step slow. I, too, would not consider him a ball handler.
Gort. I love this post!
Yes, team effort carries over from one application to another. I played team sports in high school but have an older son who went into choir and theatre instead. I was quite happy to see that he was getting many of the same "work as a team" lessons there that I had growing up through playing sports.
What I find more baffling is how many people will look at these kids, who were highly rated in high school, and now will talk about how "slow" and "unathletic" they are which is especially kind of funny given how much more quick and athletic they looked against Michigan at home or the second half at Penn State.
Groce's substitution patterns are also bizarre and seem almost designed to break any flow or chemistry that has developed on the floor at times.