Per 40/Efficiency Stats
Fans need to avoid putting unrealistic expectations on TL's shoulders. He has the potential to be a good B1G PG someday, but most frosh PGs don't make a big impact, especially those ranked outside the top 100. If he's able to contribute 12-15 mpg of OK minutes without too much mediocrity, that'd be about what to expect from him. He's unlikely to come in, start and set the AH on fire. Frosh PGs typically struggle defensively, taking care of the ball, shooting and getting used to running a college offense. TL most likely will be dealing with the same issues.
AEX
- Danger Zone
Agreed, but are the other options better? I don't think we're ever going to see Tate become anything other than what he has been. Alternately, I feel Abrams gets the same grass-is-greener treatment that incoming freshman and bench-sitters receive -- we assume they would be better than what we currently have because we aren't looking squarely at their flaws. Abrams was a fairly inefficient player, was he not? And I doubt his time away has improved his game.
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I think Black is def impacted by his injury. If you flip him and Lewis on that first chart....I think you could make a very good argument for playing your top 7 95% of the minutes and just using the bottom four in mop up time if we have a lead or to get a minute or two blow here and there if guys are completely gassed.
I know it won't happen, because Groce wants "a PG" out there, but I think we'd be much better off if we did it.
I know it won't happen, because Groce wants "a PG" out there, but I think we'd be much better off if we did it.
Happy to see what I have thought all along: Lewis has been a more effective player than Tate. Albeit, relatively speaking, both have not been anything to write home about. But I would contend that we are a better team with Lewis the longer Lewis has been playing with the team.
Unhappy to admit that it looks like you are right. I've been a Tate fan since he made a few amazing passes as a freshman. He still makes those passes, but he still does not do a lot else.
There is 2 separate arguments here. 1) Will TJL start next year? He may, but that may shape up into the tallest midget contest. 2) Will he be ready to be an impact? It is a long shot to expect a 100+ freshman to be that guy & this shouldn't be the expectation, regardless of if he starts or is the best pg on the team.
I hope TA is back, I hope JT improves, & I hope TJL is the exception to the rule on freshman pg. Unfortunately, we don't have anything more solid at pg next year than hope.
Tracy still avg'd about 12ppg right? Thats like double both our current pg's combined. His defense, toughness and leadership would be making all the difference with our current roster, not to mention hes an actual offensive threat. If he comes back at a level even close to what he was before then we will be just fine next year.
Yea, Tate may be able to run the offense to an extent but doesn't do much else. His defense is meh. His offense still looks non-existent and is about the same as last year(drive to the basket, which he doesn't do enough of).
He doesn't get me excited.
So we should forget about defense and base the rotation solely on offensive production?
It should come as no surprise AA and KL rank low. Combined, the two have taken only ~11% of the team's FG attempts, ~8% in the last three games. For reference, those numbers for JCL and AJ are ~18% and ~17%.
Very true. Tracy isn't spectacular, but he's a solid BIG10 caliber player that we desperately miss. 12 ppg and a respectable 3 point shot to spread the floor is all we need next to Hill and Nunn. You can never overstate the importance of senior leadership and good defense. We're missing this so hard right now.
To me, the frustrating thing is how some things HAVE come together for us as hoped: Hill and Nunn are putting up great numbers, the freshman can contribute now(JCL shooting 42% from 3), Tate is a quality backup pg, Mav has improved and really is a serviceable backup, and Finke has been a lot better than expected.....but, alas. :huh:
At least teams aren't pressing us; so Finke doesn't have to play PG. Tate's role should be as an emergency backup only. He just flat out shouldn't play. Facts:
His turnover/steals ratio is a jaw dropping 10:1
His assist/turnover ration is 1.8 to 1 (his best stat)
He can only shoot layups averaging "40% from layup range"
He only scores about 1 layup a game.
He has only taken one "3 point shot" this year (miss)
His Free Throw % has dropped to 57%
The defense does not have to guard him unless he is 3 feet from rim.
He does NOT make players around him better.
He allows other teams to sag off him and stifles the offense.
Rebounding is not a strength
Defense is not a strength
So shorten the ROTATION. I'm not saying Lewis is the 2nd coming of DWILL, but at least he gives us a fighting chance. We will never make the tourney if we continue to play Tate good minutes. it's just the way it is...
His turnover/steals ratio is a jaw dropping 10:1
His assist/turnover ration is 1.8 to 1 (his best stat)
He can only shoot layups averaging "40% from layup range"
He only scores about 1 layup a game.
He has only taken one "3 point shot" this year (miss)
His Free Throw % has dropped to 57%
The defense does not have to guard him unless he is 3 feet from rim.
He does NOT make players around him better.
He allows other teams to sag off him and stifles the offense.
Rebounding is not a strength
Defense is not a strength
So shorten the ROTATION. I'm not saying Lewis is the 2nd coming of DWILL, but at least he gives us a fighting chance. We will never make the tourney if we continue to play Tate good minutes. it's just the way it is...
I don't think the bolded part is true. Unfortunately, his best asset is his ability to deliver great passes to bigs but we don't have any bigs that can play. I'm not saying he should start, but he is adequate to provide some minutes for a guy to get some rest.
Tate is not the reason why we're having close games to terrible teams. It's our defense. Our offense is actually pretty good, we just need some damn defense.
Gotta fix the rebounding. Gotta fix the defense. Gotta stop playing Tate and Hope Black heals soon (Though Black still isn't a center)
Especially rebounding and defense!
TA shot 27% from three in 2013-2014; KL shot 33% from three in 2014-2015. I don't know that TA would be much help in this regard.
I know it's early in the season, and Lewis hasn't yet faced the B10, but here is how some of his numbers compare to TA:
points-per-FGA / assists-per-40 / turnovers-per-40
KL: 1.02 / 5.2 / 2.4
TA: 1.09 / 4.3 / 2.5
TownieMatt
CU Expat
- Chicago
Tracy's contributions are largely on the defensive end. He's a real lead by example guy with his intensity. I think teammates really feed of a guy that puts pressure on the opposition's lead ball handler. Offensive efficiency has never been a strength for Tracy, anyone who's followed his career knows that. His ORtg for the 13/14 season was 95.1. Better than Lewis, but still middle of the road for this current roster. That being said, the roster next season should have a lot more shooting ability than it did two years ago when Tracy was forced to take far too many shots.
If healthy, you at least know what you'll get from Abrams; Intensity and leadership on D, mediocre efficiency on O. That's a big upgrade from what we're getting at the moment.
PaytonHighstep
- Downers Grove, IL
So what happens if/when Hill and Nunn never see a NCAA tourney game? I thought for sure they would play in multiple when they were recruited, along with many other posters on various message boards.
That was when we all thought we would recruit at least one competent big man and a point guard, not just four good backups for each of them.
MrOizo
- Chicago
Amazing stuff, townie! What software are you using for analysis and visualization?Updated Scorecard through the UIC game.
Takeaways:
- This scorecard really illustrates the issue with this team. Right now there are a few players keeping us afloat and a lot of players being forced to play that really shouldn't be.
- It's hard to imagine where we'd be without Malcolm, but Kendrick has really been the engine of the team since he's come back.
- Finke is a great offensive player for a Freshman (albeit RS). If he can step up his D, we'll have a great asset moving forward.
- For this team to improve, we have to get something from a PG. Tate and Lewis have been woeful.
blackdog
- Champaign
The most recent update really shows how thin we are in the frontcourt. If we could play Nunn, Jordan, Hill, Finke, Morgan together that would be a really solid lineup but since we have no bigs Finke and Morgan can't play together. That leads to more minutes by lesser players also playing out of position. If we had one more big who could contribute, either Black healthy or Thorne, it would make a pretty big difference.
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PaytonHighstep
- Downers Grove, IL
Good thing Paul got in trouble over in Europe. :tsk: They could use him right about now.
TownieMatt
CU Expat
- Chicago
Thanks much! :thumb: I use Tableau.
Morgan is more of a 'big' than Black. Unfortunately, he isn't very active, can't jump, not much of a rebounder and plays terrible defense. Finke is truly our best option as a 'big' but we need him to get better at defending and rebounding much quicker than he should really be asked. That's on Groce.