Pregame: Illinois at Michigan State, Saturday, February 19th, 11:00am CT, ESPN

sulli said:

First post here (be kind, please)...

There are three ways that illinois can get better (aside from more consistent effort).

1. They don't move enough on offense. When they are trying to get it to Kofi (which is what they should be doing), they tend to all stand in one spot. They often don't even relocate after sending the ball to the post, let alone cut and get replaced. That lack of movement hurts their shooting against active defenses (the guy that doubles can come back easier), makes the inside-out pass harder, etc. It also is habit-forming and when he is out they have trouble. Their weave is fine, but that is often the only motion they really have. It also creates a lot of turnovers around the perimeter. If the wing is standing there it is a lot easier to pressure that pass than if he is giving a quick screen for someone else or even just v cutting. Side note, the pass to the post from the top creates turnovers, is harder for kofi to handle, etc. They make that pass a lot simply because it is already an adventure just getting it to the wing.

2. They don't box out consistently at all. Kofi has gotten a lot better at not losing his man on the feigned double team, but they still don't find a body nearly as much as they should. Long rebounds are especially bad as the guards often just turn to the basket instead of finding a man.

3. Less important, but they don't even try to get easy baskets on in-bounds plays from under the basket. Sometimes it is an adventure jsut getting it in, with the "box out" lob to the top just to get it in (which is a scary play that also gives no advantage). This is a less important point but shows how much less sophisticated their offense/coaching is compared to teams like MSU, Purdue, etc. that use those inbound plays to create easy buckets.

Defensively, this team is actually pretty good, especially given that they aren't the most athletic or tall team 1-5. Frazier, while a great defender, is undersized, Kofi is improving but still not an incredible defender despite his size, etc. If Melendez keeps progressing he could make them a much better defensive team just by making them taller.

They are for sure going to be very dependent on their 3 point shooting and will live or die by it regardless in the tourney. But when they are pressured they get super-dependent on it and the shots are tougher. At least last night they didn't really turn it over much against the press, so hopefully that is behind them.

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TheFameProtector said:

I'll be very surprised if they don't come out with that "fire" on Saturday. Multiple listless performances in a row isn't something we've seen very often in the BU era. But it is interesting that the team last year went through a similar stage at this point in the season but came through with Ws primarily due to Ayo (@ Nebraska, for instance). Getting the crap beat out of them at MSU (literally and figuratively) was a turning point. Hopefully getting the crap beat out of us at Rutgers is the turning point and we can do to MSU what they did to us last year.

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Rocky said:

and yet he also says the rim gets smaller for the 3's on the road ... I don't think he minds good 2's. There was one possession where one of our guards last night took a two just inside the 3 point line. THAT he does NOT like.

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Rocky said:

I agree with your assessment of BU's offensive strategy preference. I just don't agree with his preference. It stagnates the offense by being too predictable. Look at early Shaq and Orlando. They get to the Finals and get blown out.

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Fanview said:

I've seen Plummer do it on several occasions.

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Brosky said:

I agree. In h.s., DMW had all the offensive moves. I've never understood why he has limited himself to defense and rebounding.

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Deep said:

So I have never been to East Lansing For a game before. just curious about opinions on the following:

1. What is the environment like within the building? Going with my 2 teenage boys, Should we be prepared to get crap from MSU fans? We don't find dishing it back but good natured.

2. Best places to grab food in the East Lansing area near the stadium?

3. Anything else that may be worthwhile To know...

TY

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greyghost70 said:

last night limited himself to 30 minutes, no points and 1 rebound

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Fulton County Illini said:

Our super seniors have been exposed and now everyone knows that Jake and Monte can't beat any off the dribble drive and if they get lucky to beat someone they can't finish and will rush the shot. Can't have wings just sit around the perimeter without the ability to beat someone off the bounce. Too many 1 dimensional offensive players.

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sacraig said:

Maybe, but Underwood is all about getting layups/dunks or threes. Long twos are lower percentage shots and generally aren't as efficient a method of generating points as short twos or threes. This is also at the heart of his defensive philosophy.

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ptgd1 said:

there were the great Lou Henson years with those frustrating losses.

We have suffered a lot, and though we have had some recent success with wins and banners and players becoming stars in the NBA and a few great recruiting classes that should give us all optimism... we all still have the scars that won't go away.

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Rocky said:

I agree with your assessment of BU's offensive strategy preference. I just don't agree with his preference. It stagnates the offense by being too predictable. Look at early Shaq and Orlando. They get to the Finals and get blown out.

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Brosky said:

We don't have a mid-range game. ... Right now it seems like a Kofi dunk or a 3 pointer. Rutgers showed how lethal the mid-range game can be.

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illini80 said:

Yes, but when your All-American is shooting over 60% from 2, the team needs to understand that is always the best shot. I know the coaches and players know that, but in the flow of the game they seem to forget sometimes. That 3 point opportunity is a lot better if Kofi is touching the ball more often.

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TheFameProtector said:

Gonna just focus on two bits of this post. First, the second comment I've kept: I think we all -- even us younger fans -- can understand the reason for the general pessimism that can come with being a lifelong Illini fan. It's only natural when you have multiple (or many, many multiple) years in which you've felt like "this is it, we can finally win it this year" only to be letdown with a crushing loss, whether in the NC game or in the first round of the tourney. After awhile, it's easier to mentally prep for the worst rather than go through that cycle again.

THAT said, and on the other hand, your reference to the Lou Henson seasons with frustrating losses highlights just how far your expectations have shifted in the span of 3 years, and I think it's important to recognize the accomplishments that have generated that shift and contextualize them. Lou didn't make the NCAA tourney until his sixth season at the helm, and it took until his eighth to start stringing together consecutive appearances. Now, as bad as the late Weber and Groce eras were we did not reach the same extended depths that Lou had to drag us out of, but still, BU's tenure as coach has ushered in a new era where we can now expect to be a tourney team again and anticipate some years in which we might go on a deep run or win the B1G. Does that mean we'll have letdowns, like last year against Loyola? Absolutely. But even that letdown was accompanied by winning the BTT (for only the third time in our history!!) and being at the top of the conference all season long. For the last 3 seasons (including this one), we've been able to enjoy watching more Big Ten games where the good guys come out on top than at any point since Dee Brown was around. Or how about this: Underwood is the first coach since Henson that has both recruited AND coached the major players on a team that won over 70% of its conference games, and he's done it twice (last year plus this year, so far at least). I will take those highs (or perpetual state of winning more than losing) with the occasional big letdowns every single time over the alternative, which is season-long so-so doldrums with the occasional high (like beating #1 Indiana while unranked). More importantly, I will embrace the hope his recent success has brought, even if that means some old scars might occasionally be reopened. Whenever you need a reminder of the bigger picture after a lousy showing, just go to this page and starting clicking forward through the next decade of Big Ten season standings, and remember...while we may not have found the holy grail, at least we're no longer in the company of those schools that start with "N"

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Deep said:

So I have never been to East Lansing For a game before. just curious about opinions on the following:

3. Anything else that may be worthwhile To know...

TY

Click to expand...

sacraig said:

I am not a basketball coach and therefore won't pretend to even have a preference on this issue. I would prefer we score points more efficiently than we have been the last handful of games, though, and if shooting more mid-range 2s does that, then let's do that.

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D1959 said:

Has anyone made a mid range jumper since Ayo left? That is sorely missed

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TheFameProtector said:

Gonna just focus on two bits of this post. First, the second comment I've kept: I think we all -- even us younger fans -- can understand the reason for the general pessimism that can come with being a lifelong Illini fan. It's only natural when you have multiple (or many, many multiple) years in which you've felt like "this is it, we can finally win it this year" only to be letdown with a crushing loss, whether in the NC game or in the first round of the tourney. After awhile, it's easier to mentally prep for the worst rather than go through that cycle again.

THAT said, and on the other hand, your reference to the Lou Henson seasons with frustrating losses highlights just how far your expectations have shifted in the span of 3 years, and I think it's important to recognize the accomplishments that have generated that shift and contextualize them. Lou didn't make the NCAA tourney until his sixth season at the helm, and it took until his eighth to start stringing together consecutive appearances. Now, as bad as the late Weber and Groce eras were we did not reach the same extended depths that Lou had to drag us out of, but still, BU's tenure as coach has ushered in a new era where we can now expect to be a tourney team again and anticipate some years in which we might go on a deep run or win the B1G. Does that mean we'll have letdowns, like last year against Loyola? Absolutely. But even that letdown was accompanied by winning the BTT (for only the third time in our history!!) and being at the top of the conference all season long. For the last 3 seasons (including this one), we've been able to enjoy watching more Big Ten games where the good guys come out on top than at any point since Dee Brown was around. Or how about this: Underwood is the first coach since Henson that has both recruited AND coached the major players on a team that won over 70% of its conference games, and he's done it twice (last year plus this year, so far at least). I will take those highs (or perpetual state of winning more than losing) with the occasional big letdowns every single time over the alternative, which is season-long so-so doldrums with the occasional high (like beating #1 Indiana while unranked). More importantly, I will embrace the hope his recent success has brought, even if that means some old scars might occasionally be reopened. Whenever you need a reminder of the bigger picture after a lousy showing, just go to this page and starting clicking forward through the next decade of Big Ten season standings, and remember...while we may not have found the holy grail, at least we're no longer in the company of those schools that start with "N"

Click to expand...

sulli said:

First post here (be kind, please)...

There are three ways that illinois can get better (aside from more consistent effort).

1. They don't move enough on offense. When they are trying to get it to Kofi (which is what they should be doing), they tend to all stand in one spot. They often don't even relocate after sending the ball to the post, let alone cut and get replaced. That lack of movement hurts their shooting against active defenses (the guy that doubles can come back easier), makes the inside-out pass harder, etc. It also is habit-forming and when he is out they have trouble. Their weave is fine, but that is often the only motion they really have. It also creates a lot of turnovers around the perimeter. If the wing is standing there it is a lot easier to pressure that pass than if he is giving a quick screen for someone else or even just v cutting. Side note, the pass to the post from the top creates turnovers, is harder for kofi to handle, etc. They make that pass a lot simply because it is already an adventure just getting it to the wing.

2. They don't box out consistently at all. Kofi has gotten a lot better at not losing his man on the feigned double team, but they still don't find a body nearly as much as they should. Long rebounds are especially bad as the guards often just turn to the basket instead of finding a man.

3. Less important, but they don't even try to get easy baskets on in-bounds plays from under the basket. Sometimes it is an adventure jsut getting it in, with the "box out" lob to the top just to get it in (which is a scary play that also gives no advantage). This is a less important point but shows how much less sophisticated their offense/coaching is compared to teams like MSU, Purdue, etc. that use those inbound plays to create easy buckets.

Defensively, this team is actually pretty good, especially given that they aren't the most athletic or tall team 1-5. Frazier, while a great defender, is undersized, Kofi is improving but still not an incredible defender despite his size, etc. If Melendez keeps progressing he could make them a much better defensive team just by making them taller.

They are for sure going to be very dependent on their 3 point shooting and will live or die by it regardless in the tourney. But when they are pressured they get super-dependent on it and the shots are tougher. At least last night they didn't really turn it over much against the press, so hopefully that is behind them.

Click to expand...

sacraig said:

I am not a basketball coach and therefore won't pretend to even have a preference on this issue. I would prefer we score points more efficiently than we have been the last handful of games, though, and if shooting more mid-range 2s does that, then let's do that.

Click to expand...