Pregame: Illinois vs Michigan, Thursday, March 2nd, 6:00pm CT, ESPN

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#76      
I am growing tired of the negativity - it seems like half the people on here can't be happy unless they get the perfect season of a B1G championship followed by a BTT championship, followed by a Final Four if not a National Championship.
We are a very good but not perfect team. Enjoy it.
I don’t think this statement speaks to my own personal frustrations and I’m guessing other fans here as well; we’re not expecting a perfect season.

The last two years’ teams were out-coached and out-played in the tourney. Then this year the team peaked December 6th with the win vs Texas, and it’s been downhill since then. We are 1-8 vs Q1 since that Texas win. We struggled to stomp out bottom dweller Minnesota, and lost to the 2nd worst team. Not sure where your optimism comes from.
 
#78      
Is Purdue a likely loss? If these guys decide to show up as they did in Bloomington, with Shannon to boot, I can see them winning. Every game is the Forrest Gump box of chocolates.
We can beat the good teams. It’s the crap teams that we have a hard time getting up for. Immature team.
 
#79      
Id like for BU to show up at some of your jobs and offer his opinions. First rule of healthy negativity, if you dont like how things are, you better have a good option of how to fix it. Who do you think we are gonna hire that can replace BU? We are in uncharted territory with the portal and NIL. Find a real hobby and Let the dust settle. At the end of the day, feelings about BU aside, can we at the very least agree we believe is Josh MF Whitman.
 
#80      
I for one like the direction of our sports programs (women’s volleyball notwithstanding). But part of the fun of being fans is critiquing the coaching, the decisions, brainstorming ways we could be better, analyzing our strengths and weaknesses. Give most of us in here a whistle and make us the coach and we wouldn’t know what to do. But it doesn’t mean we can’t give our opinions. It’s why god invented message boards, so we can weigh in. Ay]t the end of the day we all realize it’s just a game which provides a diversion from our work a day lives, and it’s fun to share our thoughts with fellow fans. As long as we don’t take cheap shots at the players (who very like;y read this stuff), i don’t see the harm.
 
#81      
Since he used a Doc Fauci meme to admonish you, he lost all credibility..... Carry on Young Stallion!!
Haha. Couldn’t find the one from Talladega Nights - “but I said with all due respect”


Oh well.

stripes lighten GIF
 
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#82      
This is exactly right. The offense looks like a bad YMCA game. It is each person taking their turn rather than trying to play as a team. The three guys literally standing in one spot on the weak side drives me up the wall. It is way easier to double when you can turn your back on the guy and know that when the pass goes that way he'll be in almost exactly the same spot as he was when yous stopped looking.
This is the conclusion I have come to. We simply do not play well together as a team. I don't really blame the players ofrthe coaches. With the transfer portal and players leaving early to pursue professional careers coaches try to assemble the most talent possible. But without playing together for sustained period of time, sometimes a group of players, although highly talented, will remain a collection of individuals rather than a team,
 
#85      
It would be an absolutely hilarious and even more depressing exercise if someone tried to analyze what our record would be if we hit a normal percentage of our wide open threes this year, lol. Forget the contested ones we take, we seem to miss all of the good shots, too!
We are shooting a “normal percentage” of our wide open threes — for this team. It is a bad shooting team and we’re shooting a normal percentage for a bad shooting team. That we had higher expectations for the team doesn’t make this “unnormal.” I think you meant to say analyze what our record would be if we were even a decent shooting team. Unfortunately we’re not. We have some guys who can get ho, but of them the only one I’d call a good shooter from distance is Mayer. I will give Goode a bit of a pass with the missed time and I think Epps has the potential, but neither of them can be labeled good shooters currently. Don’t have to look further than the fact that one of the guys from earlier in the season who some posters complained was taking too many 3s cuz he wasn’t hitting them currently is tied for second for 3 pt shooting percentage (Skyy).
 
#87      
Based on what empirical evidence?

Before you start, I'll just throw out the names Ayo, Kofi, Trent, Giorgi, and Damonte as evidence against your statement.
My evidence is that last season one of the things i loved about melendez was that he was at least trying (at times) to move without the ball. His 3 point percentage was much higher. This year he, along with everyone else stands in a single spot for entire possessions sometimes.

Kofi did not have high basketball iq. he never learned to pass well out of the double/triple teams. he was just really big and strong.

I agree that Ayo, Trent, and Damonte all had high basketball iq. Ayo is an NBA level player though, so. I like Underwoods ability to recruit. That is what has made these teams good. What has made them underperform in the tournament has been partly luck and partly coaching. When Kofi was on the team, it was easy to write off the lack of movement to the fact that he clogs the middle and his presence demands touches. But they don't have Kofi anymore and they still have three guys standing on the weak side watching the play.

Their inconsistency (to respond to the other post) I think is largely to do with the fact that they play inconsistent but generally very good defense (sometimes great) and it often creates points. If they can get a team against the ropes with their defense and turn it into a wide open game, they can crush teams. When the opposing team avoids turnovers and turns it into a half-court game, then the flaws in the Illinois offense get exposed. I don't have the stats to back it up, but i bet fast break points vs w-l or margin of win would likely tell that story.
 
#88      
His first 3 years at Baylor he came off the bench and didn't play a lot more than 10-15 minutes. He was often on a short leash. Last year saw his percentages plummet due to increased usage. I think his unwavering belief he will make the next shot is both his superpower and his kryptonite. Earlier in his career he was a microwave off the bench for some really good teams, that played very disciplined basketball. He shot a lot more wide-open threes with Butler, Flagler, and Mitchell also spreading the floor.
Last year, he took to freelancing a lot more, which may be why he was looking for a new home. I don't think he took many of those step-back 3's when they were the best team in the country.

He's the kind of guy who can win you a game by himself if he's hot and shoot you right out of one when he's not. That said, if we are going to do anything this March, he is going to be a big part of it. If he doesn't play well, the team really struggles to score.
I think the same can be said about TJS and Hawkins who only shows up once in a blue moon.
 
#90      

Retro62

North Bethesda, Maryland
This is exactly right. The offense looks like a bad YMCA game. It is each person taking their turn rather than trying to play as a team. The three guys literally standing in one spot on the weak side drives me up the wall. It is way easier to double when you can turn your back on the guy and know that when the pass goes that way he'll be in almost exactly the same spot as he was when yous stopped looking.

Mayer is a big part of the problem the way he dribbles around, then gets trapped, passes it to someone to bail him out, then immediately asks for the ball back.

It is also in the coaching though as the offense has looked like this for years. I like the bball iq of the three freshman, but i'm afraid underwood is going to ruin them.
Ruin them? Aside from Epps' recent slump, all three freshman have blossomed this year.
 
#91      
My evidence is that last season one of the things i loved about melendez was that he was at least trying (at times) to move without the ball. His 3 point percentage was much higher. This year he, along with everyone else stands in a single spot for entire possessions sometimes.

Kofi did not have high basketball iq. he never learned to pass well out of the double/triple teams. he was just really big and strong.

I agree that Ayo, Trent, and Damonte all had high basketball iq. Ayo is an NBA level player though, so. I like Underwoods ability to recruit. That is what has made these teams good. What has made them underperform in the tournament has been partly luck and partly coaching. When Kofi was on the team, it was easy to write off the lack of movement to the fact that he clogs the middle and his presence demands touches. But they don't have Kofi anymore and they still have three guys standing on the weak side watching the play.

Their inconsistency (to respond to the other post) I think is largely to do with the fact that they play inconsistent but generally very good defense (sometimes great) and it often creates points. If they can get a team against the ropes with their defense and turn it into a wide open game, they can crush teams. When the opposing team avoids turnovers and turns it into a half-court game, then the flaws in the Illinois offense get exposed. I don't have the stats to back it up, but i bet fast break points vs w-l or margin of win would likely tell that story.
BOLD:
So you think from day one of arriving on our campus Ayo was an NBA level talent?
Our staff had nothing to do with him BECOMING the NBA talent that he became? Your recollection of Freshman Ayo and mine are two VERY different things.



BOLD Underlined:
I will say, that your last paragraph has more than a little truth to it. Our offense does get exposed. But it’s more like the flaws/failure/refusal to execute get(s) exposed then the actual offense. Underwood is pretty good at X’s & O’s people.

At times they get in a mode where they play excellent lock down defense, and like you implied that’s when they’re truly at their best. They’re looking to push and they’re getting easy fast break points…That’s also usually when they’re better about sharing the ball…and those good vibes are contagious for a while.

But if things don’t go just so…they tend to get all out of sorts rather easily. That’s when they fall back on selfish tendencies…and someone else goes rogue> then someone else…and pretty soon it’s off the rails…and nobody even knows what happened.
 
#92      
I'm referring to performance in terms of efficiency. A team can play great and lose or play average and win. For example, the performances in the losses at Indiana and at Iowa were better than the performances in the wins vs. Minnesota and vs. Northwestern.

Torvik's efficiency stats allow filtering by site, which yields these rankings:

full season, at home:
#52 overall, #140 offense, #24 defense
full season, away from home:
#40 overall, #59 offense, #50 defense
conference games, at home:
#90 overall, #123 offense, #74 defense
conference games, away from home:
#32 overall, #78 offense, #33 defense

Note that while our full season home defense looks pretty good, it's largely propped up by the half-dozen sub-300 teams we played in the non-conference.
Once I looked into the Torvik efficiency, I realized there are lots of factors. Simply from a calculated efficiency score point of view (not efficiency ranking), our performance home and away are pretty equal, with defense slightly better at home. So the explanation that we won more games at home is probably due to some of the teams we hosted have worse efficiency on the road and of course, some luck. Fortunately, Michigan is that kind of a team, offense efficiency much better at home. The bad news is their performance is generally climbing up by games. Still, with the statistics from Torvik, I will predict an Illinois home win, even though it might not be a park walk.
 
#93      

Bigtex

DFW
It would be nice if there was some motion to our offense. Maybe Weber yelling "move" LOL. Too often we have 4 guys on the perimeter standing in their "shooting" spot. Would love to see Mayer (or you name the player) come around a high screen, receive a pass (think Alford offense or hundreds of other players/teams) and fire away a shot (likely a 3)
 
#94      
Id like for BU to show up at some of your jobs and offer his opinions. First rule of healthy negativity, if you dont like how things are, you better have a good option of how to fix it. Who do you think we are gonna hire that can replace BU? We are in uncharted territory with the portal and NIL. Find a real hobby and Let the dust settle. At the end of the day, feelings about BU aside, can we at the very least agree we believe is Josh MF Whitman.
I am sure
 
#95      
This is the conclusion I have come to. We simply do not play well together as a team. I don't really blame the players ofrthe coaches. With the transfer portal and players leaving early to pursue professional careers coaches try to assemble the most talent possible. But without playing together for sustained period of time, sometimes a group of players, although highly talented, will remain a collection of individuals rather than a team,

Same. I see moments that are inspiring. Sometimes Coleman makes the extra pass, Ty plays his butt off, same for Sincere, and I'm very impressed with Epps as well. But as talented as the upper classmen are, I don't see them, on balance, running the offense. And that's turned into a lot more 3 ball, which isn't this team's strength. I don't see anything changing much since we're already to March.

My very uninformed guess is that Underwood will learn from this, both in how he assembles his roster, and how much he's willing to risk alienating a talented player to get the level of buy-in he needs. IIRC Mayer was pretty critical of Underwood at one point, and it's hard to know what happens when a player questions the scheme so publicly. It was said that there was a team meeting that turned things around, but was it short lived?

Have enjoyed watching these guys despite the high expectations not fully materializing. I have no idea what to expect for these last games, but I won't be betting on making out of the first weekend.
 
#96      
Same. I see moments that are inspiring. Sometimes Coleman makes the extra pass, Ty plays his butt off, same for Sincere, and I'm very impressed with Epps as well. But as talented as the upper classmen are, I don't see them, on balance, running the offense. And that's turned into a lot more 3 ball, which isn't this team's strength. I don't see anything changing much since we're already to March.

My very uninformed guess is that Underwood will learn from this, both in how he assembles his roster, and how much he's willing to risk alienating a talented player to get the level of buy-in he needs. IIRC Mayer was pretty critical of Underwood at one point, and it's hard to know what happens when a player questions the scheme so publicly. It was said that there was a team meeting that turned things around, but was it short lived?

Have enjoyed watching these guys despite the high expectations not fully materializing. I have no idea what to expect for these last games, but I won't be betting on making out of the first weekend.
I agree with both regarding solid individual talent but not playing as a team. I love our freshmen and still like RJ and Goode (too bad Goode was hurt most of the year). I think those 5 with Dain could set the tone of the future and hopefully they stay until they are seniors. I know there are some who think RJ may leave, but even if he does those are a solid 5 remaining who will now have some solid experience. Not to mention another solid freshman class set to come in. I hope they stay until they are seniors. In order to win you need the chemistry of having played together for a few years to make deep runs more times than not. It's why this team is loaded with talent and to date has underperformed compared to last year's team that was less talented but had a lot of experience playing together under their belts. Getting knocked out by Houston isn't anything to be ashamed of. I still believe if Trent was healthy and we had a different draw than Houston we could've made a run last year. I'll finish by saying that we lack one other very very important thing: a floor general leader. I'm with Calvin, I have enjoyed watching and have no idea what to expect moving forward. They have the potential for a run, that's for sure. Go Illini!
 
#97      
I see moments that are inspiring.. Underwood will learn from this, both in how he assembles his roster, and how much he's willing to risk alienating a talented player to get the level of buy-in he needs... Have enjoyed watching these guys despite the high expectations not fully materializing. I have no idea what to expect for these last games...

It’s tough to put a puzzle together when the pieces don’t quite seem to fit.

First, you have to know and embrace your role as a player. What kind of player are you? What are your strengths and weaknesses?

Then you have to know how to blend those into the team structure. And then not just know it, but do it. Every game.

Then you have to have some kind of consistent offensive team strategy that carries over from game to game. The only consistent feature of the Illini this year is to shoot lots of Threes. And when they’re draining, you win. And when they’re not...

Coaches can have a general idea of how a player will fit in to a system when he brings them in. And he can try to make those pieces fit together. But again, it’s the human factor. You can never tell how unpredictable human beings are going to act and work with each other. The randomness of Life in brilliant display under the bright lights of the roundball arena with no place to hide.

What’s been frustrating for the team and fans is that there is a feeling that this team has been capable of more. This may or may not be true. But what we do know is that there have been too-frequent stretches where the team has just not adequately shown up.

There are two things you can always control: Your Effort, and your Defensive Intensity (a form of Effort). You can bring these every day and every night. And the best teams do.

Is Illini Nation happy with the Season’s Effort and level of defense intensity? Again, yes and no. As always, some will blame the Coach. But if you want to do that it’s only fair to identify exactly where the Coach has fallen short and what he needs to do to fix that in coach-speak detail.

In truth, there is always some mixture of responsibility for how the Illini have performed so far. Whether it is 50-50 between Coach and player or 5% Coach and 95% Players is in the eye of the beholder.

Bottom line... 100% of Everyone wants the Illini to use the great ball season of March Madness to put a good cap on this wild-ride of a season. Everyone from Coaches to players have learned a lot from the last few months. And they will all carry that knowledge going forward and will no doubt be better than they were coming in to this Season.

This Season will either have an Orange ending... or a 'Blue' one.
 
#98      
Hope he's ready for his career high! :ROFLMAO:

Seriously, I love college hoops but I was a baseball guy growing up, and I am no Xs and Os expert when it comes to basketball. With that said, can anyone shine a light on what exactly has changed with our offense since the UCLA and Texas games?! Even if you make Shannon's ridiculous performance vs. UCLA an "average" shooting night, our offense was so much better back then. Now it seems even our defense has unraveled, at least when it comes to keeping one guy in check.
Re: UCLA and Texas...an educated guess: UCLA plays a different style than we see in the Big10...without knowing what I'm talking about exactly, I'm going to dub it a "West Coast" style (something that *doesn't* resemble football without the pads). Meyer shined in both those games, right?

And Shannon used to play for Texas Tech...Texas' natural rival. He was likely super-motivated to put that team away.
 
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