Pregame: Illinois vs Michigan, Thursday, March 2nd, 6:00pm CT, ESPN
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Im late to the party so sorry if these have been answered.Hope he's ready for his career high!
Seriously, I love college hoops but I was a baseball guy growing up, and I am no Xs and Os expert when it comes to basketball. With that said, can anyone shine a light on what exactly has changed with our offense since the UCLA and Texas games?!
We have gone from a 5 out read and react system where you stack actions based on the previous action and what you read to being much more a 4-out patterned offense where we do the same thing every time (BU’s spread offense) or run a specific play to get somebody the ball where we run it. We were not making good reads or decisions imo out of the 5 out so the change has BU in much more control of the actions we run, where the ball goes, and what shots we get.
Your other questions and points are good but I’ll answer these.
Our go play when we need a bucket is a cross screen into a p/r for the guy BU wants to isolate. You might remember MM had it going against MSU I believe and in the post game presser they said they ran the same play like 10 times in a row. They run it for Shannon too and even a couple times for Epps.
They have a second play that they seem to run quite a bit as well where the guy who is going to end up with the ball pass and cuts to the basket area, then receives a down screen to sprint into a standing handoff read with the high post player (a variation of zoom for you basketball people). That’s what I’ve seen the most.
I think the man is Shannon first, Mayer second. But either one can go crazy or shoot you out. So BU has to figure out which one it is game by game and go with that one. I know it’s also kind of a cop out, but you also expect your dudes to go off. That’s why they’re your dudes. That’s why they get the ball more and get a longer leash on shot selection. The amount of freedom is usually up to the philosophy of the coach, but also balanced by how much help they have on the team. This is true at basically every level of basketball.
MustangWally
- Mayfield
Do you have a link to this test? Would the results go to Dan, or would we be on the honor system? Is there a study guide available?
When you say 5-0 read and react do you mean, read and react in the literal sense?
As in the Rick Torbett stuff? Or, are you using it as a general descriptor.
I didn’t see enough complete games at the beginning of the season to really get a handle on what they were trying to do specifically out of that set.
I really really dig the Rick Torbett stuff. It’s a great intuitive system. I think it is the best offense for teaching basketball that I have ever seen. It’s perfect for younger levels. But it’s sophisticated enough for college.It’s just good basketball.
Did they just use specific, basic actions of it? Pass & Cut, Read Line Cut, Dribble-At, Fill to the ball, Leg Whip, Pin and Skip…blah bla bla…?
But then tweaked it with other more set stuff mixed in? Just curious what you knew about it.
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InDaAZ
- Eugene, Oregon
Perhaps Mike LaTulip would be willing to draw something up for us…
Or a passing grade could be fast-tracked by sitting face-to-face with a panel of Kofi Cockburn, Andre Curbelo and Coleman Hawkins for an oral argument* on why they’re so basketball-stupid.
A Master’s Degree could be achieved by writing a thesis on all the failings of our coaching staff (to be graded by Tyler Underwood).
*Physical altercations are allowable at the discretion of all participating parties
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It’s kinda funny too because it’s not even really a slump. I think he’s been making poor decisions but he’s shooting it well at the rim, higher than earlier in the year.
You’re on a public message board for a team that is not currently meeting their own expectations by virtue of player and coach comments. It’s not absurd or overtly negative for fans to share in those frustrations.
I agree with your comments on the other teams and NCAA in general, and I’ve posted in the coaching carousel that even the best coaches have flaws and pointing them out doesn’t mean I don’t think a coach is a good coach.
Illinois is a lock for the tournament. The reason for my lack of optimism is because they’ve gotten worse as this year has progressed; or, at least not progressed as much as other teams and worsened in a relative sense. The only conference game I can remember Underwood having positive things to say about his own team was the Indiana loss. It is what it is.
5 0 read react can not be ulitized with someone like Kofi in the true sense of read and react. Yet the concept of dribble at and cut back door should be in any offense. The system is great for 5th and 6th graders to learn the game yet with any offense like this 'cream rises to the top' for future years.
In my opinion, we still go back to when you need a bucket who do you want the ball in the hands of, where is the spot on the floor and you need system to make it happen. ISO has become the way of the world. Does that mean 'Dribble Drive' concepts and Derrick Rose (design an offense for one guy)?
Offense evolves and new systems are created. Defense is forced to adjust to the actions. 5 0 read and react, Pack the Line and force more 3s than 2s. How would that work for us? I go back to an offense that needs to be able to score at all 3 levels with multiple options.
Best players today want to go somewhere that can get them to the next level. This means new and adaptive styles which put them in a position to showcase their talents. There is a lot more to an offense than just the X and Os each game. At the college level you have to balance what attracts recruits and the next level to straight winning on the floor. Cause with the recruits you dont win on the floor. Chicken and the Egg.
Let's start giving our coaching staff kudos for what they do and help support the results. The process will win out with great talent. National Championships happen with talent and some luck.
I think so too. I wonder what happens though if they drop consecutive losses to Michigan, Purdue, and have a first round BTT exit. They could still drop a few seed lines.
This team is not worse now than it was earlier, we just lost our last game and everyone overreacts. We're also log jammed in the middle of an extremely deep conference. We may not win another game this year, but this team has made tons of progress since they started 0-3 in conference play.
This season is what it is, but if we beat Michigan again, it'll make things that much better.
Very good and thorough analysis. To add to what you wrote: 1) we don't have a true point guard, and that matters (helps you break the press and limit turnovers), 2) we have star players who appear to sleepwalk 20 minutes at a time (likely because they have to create instead of getting the looks that resolving issue #1 would solve), 3) we are a young team with developing players whose stars have had to learn a very different style of play (new coach, new league)....aaaaaannnnnnnddddd, most important: 4) Bruce has absolutely cracked the code against Michigan during his recent tenure. We'll be fine.
(Also, 5: Hunter Dickinson tweeted in anger after Michigan blew their shot at landing TSJ; expect him to go off...and let's all collectively pray it doesn't matter, as we struggle when opposing teams have a player who does that.)
Huh, we haven’t had Kofi this season.?
I meant EARLY this year WITHOUT Kofi. We ran 5-O a handful of times last year…during Kofi’s ridiculous suspension for selling merch.
5 0 read react can not be ulitized with someone like Kofi in the true sense of read and react. It’s not the ideal offense for someone like Kofi. (Still not sure why we’re talking about Kofi.) Did you miss the other sets in Read and React that weren’t
5-0? 4 out one in 1…3 out 2 in…? Post feeds>Lakercuts… There are concepts there that are transferable. I have worn out the Read and React DVDs.
Yet the concept of dribble at and cut back door should be in any offense.
I agree and I am aware. That is obviously basic intuitive basketball that is a built in rule type thing you just do on an overplay.
Both concepts are built into the spread offense. Dribble entry in spread is a dribble
for example…but he has them motion the wing through unlike a standard dribble-at type concept where it is just a standing rule that you push the wing through. I was trying to ask IVarsity if he thought we were running straight Rick Torbett 5-0 with some added wrinkles thrown in for good measure or if he meant something else. (He POSSIBLY implied that after all in his post)
I apologize for the nerdy coach speak of this one in advance…I really really do
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I understand we have not had Kofi I am talking about success in the system. We can not revamp every year to reach consistency. Duke does not revamp the offense every year. 2 things of focus -- With the ball what you do and then without the ball what do you do. Each has a system that integrates into the whole.
I think one thing that has went a tad overlooked this year - at least by me - is that with guys like Plummer/Frazier/Williams/Grandison being replaced with Shannon/Mayer/Epps/RJ/Ty is that it was inevitable we were going to see a lot more dribble-drive than we have maybe in years just due to skill sets. So in that vein, it is not super surprising that we turn the ball over a lot more and are seeing tons of Iso. Not that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot with tons of unforced errors, that's definitely been a big issue with this team.
So, for a while there, I was getting sort of frustrated with all of the turnovers and Iso stuff, but at some point had to realize that it plays to this team's strengths. I mean maybe there is too much Iso, wouldn't disagree there. But we have a guard who is 2nd in the conf in FT attempts and as a team we shoot the 3rd most fouls shots in the league. Our 2-point field goal percentage is tops in the conf as well. Problems with both of those things, though: (1) we shoot under 70% from the line and (2) don't seem to take advantage of how good we are when we get closer to the basket. I keep thinking in these late shot clock situations, I'd rather see a guy dribble-drive and make an official blow a whistle (risk an offensive foul, perhaps) rather than the 6 fancy dribbles and step-back three which leads to a long rebound and runout.
So, for a while there, I was getting sort of frustrated with all of the turnovers and Iso stuff, but at some point had to realize that it plays to this team's strengths. I mean maybe there is too much Iso, wouldn't disagree there. But we have a guard who is 2nd in the conf in FT attempts and as a team we shoot the 3rd most fouls shots in the league. Our 2-point field goal percentage is tops in the conf as well. Problems with both of those things, though: (1) we shoot under 70% from the line and (2) don't seem to take advantage of how good we are when we get closer to the basket. I keep thinking in these late shot clock situations, I'd rather see a guy dribble-drive and make an official blow a whistle (risk an offensive foul, perhaps) rather than the 6 fancy dribbles and step-back three which leads to a long rebound and runout.
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I've run the RT stuff before at my last school. I run a simplified version of that now which I like a bit more. Both were introduced to me by someone else. I was using read and react as a general term. The dribble at backdoor seems more replaced by the DHO options these days in my opinion. I feel like we ran at least 9999999999999999999 of those between CH and MM in the first half of the season.
I'd add bad shot selection as well
You're going out on a pretty thin limb with that prediction Louie..... Half this team has shown us to be about as intense as this dude.
Hope you're correct and the whole team can step it up heading into tourney time!!
Duke is also bringing in 5 star talent at every position.as well we do have a couple of seniors but we also have some very young players at key positions that have the ball in there hands.just my take for what it's worth
That’s a lot of DHOs!! I don’t mind the DHO…in moderation. I like how it leads into a UCLA High Post back-screen in the (Princeton) Chin Series quite a bit. I think that’s pretty nifty.
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