Pregame: Illinois vs Northwestern, Saturday, November 25th, 2:30pm CT, BTN

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#76      

blackdog

blackdog
Champaign
blackdog
mhuml32 said:
Would you guarantee a loss to Kansas next year if it guaranteed a win against Northwestern this year?
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#78      

Dkayak

D
Dkayak
CoachHooleyHoo said:
Is this true? I can't imagine he'd be cleared to play if he wasn't fully recovered.
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I was significantly concussed in a June 2022 mountain bike crash. Bright sunlight caused headaches for a day or two, but I was cleared to ramp up to vigorous exercise beginning about a week later. Didn't Luke resume practicing about 10 days later? However, I was cautioned that a similar repeat blow within the next few months could produce a worse concussion than the first. My understanding (engineer, not an MD) is that healing for maximum exertion occurs long before the risk from another impact fades, which can take months. I assume (maybe incorrectly) he still has elevated risk, so why take a chance when we have JP?

I have no idea how Luke’s concussion compares to mine. IIRC there’s some sort of grading system and I had maybe the second grade? They did a CT scan to check for a brain bleed (negative), but I still have no memory of the six hours between leaving home and the last half hour at the ER. My wife said I rode the last mile out of the woods but became less coherent by the time we drove home, apparently due to brain swelling.
 
#81      

KnoxIllini2

KnoxIllini2
KnoxIllini2
This game I hope plays out like 2014. Team rallying around a senior backup quarterback (O’Toole) after the younger more talented starting QB (Lunt) went down injured. We needed a last second field goal to beat Penn State to get to 5-6 that season, as we needed a few last minute miracles this season from both Luke and Paddock.

After the travesty that was Iowa. I’m still not over the picked up pass interference flag. I hope we come out livid and ready to rip some mother loving throats out.
 
#85      

BZuppke

BZuppke
Plainfield
BZuppke
danielb927 said:
To me it's just the established pattern of what happens in most close games... not evidence of some kind of lack of "clutchness" on defense. I posted this elsewhere but our D has made tons of big stops the past 6 weeks:

- Forced Iowa to 6 straight punts while holding a narrow lead, before, yes, giving up one broken run for a TD and not getting a stop to get a hail mary chance
- Forced IU to an interception and punt in 2 of their last 4 drives in regulation to save a tie, and then forced a FG in OT.
- Forced MN to 4 straight punts while up 1. Then, after conceding a short field TD, forced them to a punt following our INT that got us the ball back with time to win. Then the 4-and-out to seal the W.
- The Wisconsin game I'll agree totally - we had a lead but gave up scores on the final 3 drives (and they were all long drives)
- Maryland's final 3 drives were 2 punts and a FG, keeping them from taking the lead
- Even in the Nebraska game - our D held them to 3 points in the second half, including a missed FG (with a super short field), 2 fumble recoveries and an INT. The offense didn't do anything with it, but the D kept us alive.

So sure, if your standard for "close out games" is "allow zero points in the 4th quarter" then yes, we don't always achieve that. But teams are gonna score in the 4th quarter - that's football. And with the exception of Wisconsin in the last 6 games, the D has gotten quite a few stops that kept us alive in every game.
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Yes the problem is a lack of scoring by the offense.
 
#90      

altgeld88

altgeld88
Arlington, Virginia
altgeld88
OrangeNBlueLoyal said:
I'm feeling pretty uneasy about this game. Despite a chaotic summer, Northwestern has managed to pull through stronger than recent years under Coach Fitz. Credit goes to their new coach, David Braun, for rallying the team. Watching us lose our lead against Iowa was disheartening, and it made me reflect on team dynamics. Northwestern may have taken team building a step or two too far, but they went through it all together and bonded. I truly believe this is what caused them to overachieve in comparison to their recruiting and have their surprise season this year. While NW took it too far, I wish our players did something similar (though not quite as extreme). Maybe if they had we’d have a better record right now.

Take it from my fraternity days in the '70s - we had our trials, but they brought us closer. It's that kind of camaraderie and shared experience that I wish our Illini players could develop. It's not about pushing limits; it's about building a unified team that can face challenges together and come out stronger.
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This probably belongs in the Fitz-NW thread but since the OP posted here I'll respond here.

I question the cause-and-effect inference. What indicates that the Illini team bonded insufficiently via enduring the same trials that all other teams weather as the players practice, play, socialize together, and develop? Or that hazing has a positive long-term effect on team dynamics superior to arduous practices and playing in the trenches together.

I understand the in-group psychological bonding that hazing promotes. However, it went on for a long while at NW and didn't prevent them from having some execrable teams. It's a feat to perpetuate 1-11 seasons, and unreasonable to expect that they would have done so. My amateur guess last August was that they'd struggle to get three wins. I was wrong but then again I knew little about their personnel.

What seems clearer to me than the "hazing yields positive benefits" hypothesis is that the dethroning of Fitz, and the disparagement of the team and the program, on the brink of camp last summer, shocked the team and created and us-and-them mentality far superior in effect to what hazing yields. I liken this effect to Bo Schembechler showing up in 1969 in Ann Arbor, taking over a mediocre team, and subjecting his players through a preseason boot camp sufficiently hellish that many quit. Those who remained went on to dethrone reigning national champ (and undefeated) OSU in what was at the time considered the upset of the century.

The August shock that NW suffered, and adding more experience to what was a terrible team last year (plus portal additions), likely explains NW's record this season. Not the years-long institutional effects of hazing. I haven't examined their roster so will leave it to those who have to refute my assumption.
 
#91      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
OrangeNBlueLoyal said:
I'm feeling pretty uneasy about this game. Despite a chaotic summer, Northwestern has managed to pull through stronger than recent years under Coach Fitz. Credit goes to their new coach, David Braun, for rallying the team. Watching us lose our lead against Iowa was disheartening, and it made me reflect on team dynamics. Northwestern may have taken team building a step or two too far, but they went through it all together and bonded. I truly believe this is what caused them to overachieve in comparison to their recruiting and have their surprise season this year. While NW took it too far, I wish our players did something similar (though not quite as extreme). Maybe if they had we’d have a better record right now.

Take it from my fraternity days in the '70s - we had our trials, but they brought us closer. It's that kind of camaraderie and shared experience that I wish our Illini players could develop. It's not about pushing limits; it's about building a unified team that can face challenges together and come out stronger.
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thank-you-sir-may-i-have-another.gif
 
#94      

Illini in Italy

Illini in Italy
Illini in Italy
altgeld88 said:
This probably belongs in the Fitz-NW thread but since the OP posted here I'll respond here.

I question the cause-and-effect inference. What indicates that the Illini team bonded insufficiently via enduring the same trials that all other teams weather as the players practice, play, socialize together, and develop? Or that hazing has a positive long-term effect on team dynamics superior to arduous practices and playing in the trenches together.

I understand the in-group psychological bonding that hazing promotes. However, it went on for a long while at NW and didn't prevent them from having some execrable teams. It's a feat to perpetuate 1-11 seasons, and unreasonable to expect that they would have done so. My amateur guess last August was that they'd struggle to get three wins. I was wrong but then again I knew little about their personnel.

What seems clearer to me than the "hazing yields positive benefits" hypothesis is that the dethroning of Fitz, and the disparagement of the team and the program, on the brink of camp last summer, shocked the team and created and us-and-them mentality far superior in effect to what hazing yields. I liken this effect to Bo Schembechler showing up in 1969 in Ann Arbor, taking over a mediocre team, and subjecting his players through a preseason boot camp sufficiently hellish that many quit. Those who remained went on to dethrone reigning national champ (and undefeated) OSU in what was at the time considered the upset of the century.

The August shock that NW suffered, and adding more experience to what was a terrible team last year (plus portal additions), likely explains NW's record this season. Not the years-long institutional effects of hazing. I haven't examined their roster so will leave it to those who have to refute my assumption.
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While there certainly is a benefit to having teammates (sports, military, whatever) go through trials and tribulations of a cauldron per se, I believe the fraternities (and in this case a football team, itself a fraternity of sorts) fail to see the difference between a physical or mental trial and abuse. Having been through both physical and mental trials during my military time, I can confirm that those who survive the test do bond tighter than a Bull's backside at fly time. The very function of basic training for the military services is to "break" each individual in the unit down and rebuild them back as part of a team. And if you go back far enough, basic training certainly contained plenty of what today is considered physical and mental abuse, or hazing. The function has adapted to more modern ways of thinking and has eliminated most of the abuse practices, but the underlying philosophy remains the same - to take young individuals and mold them into team mates.
 
#95      

Ander1345

A
Ander1345
How crazy of a thought is it that Braun might just be a good coach? Have we considered that?
 
#99      

fatt lacosse

F
fatt lacosse
what's annoying is that northwestern is actually not very good against the run

but we haven't been good at running the ball

a healthy feagin wins us this game, but northwestern defends the pass pretty well. the offensive approach from the fourth quarter last week is not going to cut it.
 
#100      

RockfordIllini

R
RockfordIllini
fatt lacosse said:
what's annoying is that northwestern is actually not very good against the run

but we haven't been good at running the ball

a healthy feagin wins us this game, but northwestern defends the pass pretty well. the offensive approach from the fourth quarter last week is not going to cut it.
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We’ve been decent at running the ball but we are about out of running backs. I don’t think Reggie is 100% and I just don’t think he has 25+ carries in him. So I think we have to pass based purely on attrition.
 
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