Couldn't agree more. I had fears Tate might take a step back this year but he looks excellemt out there! I completely understand the TJL charm at this point- he's going to be a good one-- but this is the best Tate we've seen. Clearly nobody is looking deeper into his numbers than Groce. The shooting may never come for Tate but all the things fans or haters alike can agree he does well are on full display right now.
Pregame: Illinois vs Winthrop, Monday, November 21st, 7:00pm CT, ESPN3
- Status
Couldn't agree more. I had fears Tate might take a step back this year but he looks excellemt out there! I completely understand the TJL charm at this point- he's going to be a good one-- but this is the best Tate we've seen. Clearly nobody is looking deeper into his numbers than Groce. The shooting may never come for Tate but all the things fans or haters alike can agree he does well are on full display right now.
Keon Johnson was Big South player of the year last year (18.7 ppg), so him not playing is a big deal.
I have high hopes for Jaylon this year. All you have to do is look at his free throw shooting from sophomore to junior year, and it is obvious the hand injury derailed his season/development last year. I think he'll always be a distributer and not a scorer, so I'm a little worried about him on the floor with Leron (who is also not really a scorer). But with weapons like Tracy (who knew?), JCL, Hill, Finke, Thorne, Mav (again, who knew), I think he can help lead a great season.
Add to that what seems to have been a potentially life-derailing false accusation/arrest in the off-season... And I'm rooting for the kid.
If Tracy has truly become an amazing shooter, having him and Tate out there at the same time is going to be good and can make up for Tate's lack of outside shooting. (hopefully)
Now, like someone else said, we will see when the competition starts to ratchet up and that starts Monday and goes all the way through the B1G. I hope he doesn't regress at all but if he does, it MIGHT be around the same time TJL is ready for more minutes.
Now, like someone else said, we will see when the competition starts to ratchet up and that starts Monday and goes all the way through the B1G. I hope he doesn't regress at all but if he does, it MIGHT be around the same time TJL is ready for more minutes.
Of note, we can tentatively add Tracy to the list of players who have developed a hitherto absent talent under Groce (as opposed to players who have only developed preexisting talents, as the charge is sometimes leveled).
Abrams' 3P% by year thus far is as follows:
FR: 9/35 (25.7%)
SO: 31/114 (27.2%)
JR: 30/111 (27.0%)
SMRSSR*: 9/11 (81.8%)
Obviously, nobody expects him to continue to shoot 82%, but there is pretty plainly some progress demonstrated here in our sample thus far.
*super medical redshirt senior
Abrams' 3P% by year thus far is as follows:
FR: 9/35 (25.7%)
SO: 31/114 (27.2%)
JR: 30/111 (27.0%)
SMRSSR*: 9/11 (81.8%)
Obviously, nobody expects him to continue to shoot 82%, but there is pretty plainly some progress demonstrated here in our sample thus far.
*super medical redshirt senior
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
Clearly Tracy's hot start from three-land is off the charts, but for him to fall all the way to 27% (his historic average), he would have to shoot 9 of 33.
That would mean missing his next 22 in a row
I don't think that happens.
He is better
Now sure how much better, but quite a bit
That would mean missing his next 22 in a row
I don't think that happens.
He is better
Now sure how much better, but quite a bit
Don't disagree with any of that but eventually the fact that he cannot shoot will catch up to him. He is playing well now but defenses aren't sagging off of him which is allowing him to get in the lane and take layups and draw fouls. Better opponents will not give him that and it will affect all of the listed stats.
He's gonna get stuffed all day, every day against B10 opponents.
Actually, the last two years, his stats have been almost the same in and out of conference. His sophomore year, he actually averaged a half a point more in conference while leading the BT in FT%. His turnover rate has been the same, too. Very low.
He is not a great player and I hope Lucas can take that spot when he is ready, but Tate deserves some credit with how he is playing. Sometimes seniors have good years almost out of nowhere. I'm willing to give Tate his due. Why rag on the kid?
SMRSSR
Excellent stats, Fantastic Abbreviations!
I love seeing Tracy out there playing and enjoying such success. Nobody deserves it more! 82% may not be sustainable, but he does look confident!
Excellent stats, Fantastic Abbreviations!
I love seeing Tracy out there playing and enjoying such success. Nobody deserves it more! 82% may not be sustainable, but he does look confident!
The majority of basketball fans only understand points scored.
I think Chester Frazier is another that just continually gets bashed on here and he brought so much more than scoring, like Tate. And, to your point, he was one of those guys whose stats really improved his senior year. Hopefully, Tate can do the same.
I feel like we have gone through this Tate argument for the past 4 years. He always looks good in the non-con against cupcakes. It's an open game, the defense is easier to break down, and that gives Tate the opportunity to do what he does best. That won't continue in the B1G.
This is an Internet message board, sir. When someone makes a counterpoint to your point of view, you are supposed to double down on your original statement, only with ALL CAPITAL LETTERS and some personal insults to drive home how right you are.
Or I guess be appreciative of a rational argument, never been tried before... Respect.
Disagree......he's lauded mostly for running hte team and having a good A/TO ratio..
In conference last year he had just under a 4:1 a/to ratio in 18 mpg.......that is damn good. He actually did better in that regard than the nonconf last year.
He scored 13 points in ALL of nonconference last year and he has 24 through 4 games this year.
He also had 5 or more assists only once in Non conference last year......he's done it in 3 of 4 games this year
He's improved IMO. Not saying he will kill it in conference but that there are reasons to be hopeful he at least will give us a bit more than he has in the past.
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I really think you need to look at his FR-SO-SR progression and skip last year. He was playing one-handed and looked terrible doing it. But his FR-SO growth showed some promise, and I'm hopeful we are now seeing additional growth. That said, I think Tate needs to be a fantastic back-up PG if we have any chance of running with the big boys at the top of the conference.
Stats don't tell the whole story. Anyone who watched us the past 3 years knows that in the B1G when Tate was on the floor we were pretty much playing 4 on 5.
And just to be clear...I'm not trying to dog on Tate. He just is what he is. He will take care of the ball, push the tempo, and be solid defensively. That might be all we need to back up Tracy. On the other hand, Lucas might be able to give the offense a boost when we are looking sluggish. That is something that Tate can't really do.
I believe that was what we all thought would happen and in reality most teams did not leave him unguarded, well except from 3. We have a nice combination of point guards this year that all bring something a little different. That will be useful throughout the season if they all do what we think they can.
I am so looking forward to seeing Black back out on the court. I'm trying to temper my expectations of him in his opening games, though. He hasn't played in two weeks shy of a year, and to this point in his career, he's always been foul-prone. If Leron can help to step in and help clean up the interior defense without fouling a lot (nobody seemed to want to box out that #12 for Detroit last night), then I think we win this game easily. But if he's less than sharp, which is what I expect in his first game back, I won't be all over him and proclaiming doom and gloom for the team even though it will likely be close. Just grab the win boys, even if it's just by 1 point.
I don't think Black should be that rusty based solely on what he does. I think guys look rusty because their emotions impact their nerves which impacts things like shooting, passing and running the court. Those are not really what Black brings, which is mostly rebounding help. I expect him to be in form very quickly.
Of course they dont
Point is people are discounting his improvement year over year to date based on last year. I think if he is showing improvement vs the not so good teams, he may show some against the good teams. Time will tell.
I don't think he looked nearly as good last year in the nonconf as he does this year.
JDHalfrack
- Springfield, IL
Clearly Tracy's hot start from three-land is off the charts, but for him to fall all the way to 27% (his historic average), he would have to shoot 9 of 33.
That would mean missing his next 22 in a row
I don't think that happens.
He is better
Now sure how much better, but quite a bit
A more realistic extrapolation is that to shoot his average of 27%, he would need to go 21 for his next 100 attempts... or 21%, and that is much more realistic. Long story short, while he is definitely playing better right now, I'll hold off until season's end before announcing that we have seen the new Abrams.
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
OK, that's fine, but who cares about your announcement of the new Tracy when he's gone
Get in here, man, there's no time for waiting- Status