Purdue 31, Illinois 24 Postgame

#226      
I am sure this crew caught some flack for the Indiana game. That might have impacted how they called this one (even more egregiously). There is no excuse for the Witherspoon call. I would argue this definitely could have effected the outcome of the game. Momentum is huge in football and this switched that and let it marinate for the whole halftime. I saw holding on the Indiana line on a ton of plays, why weren't five of those called?
Flak: Bailiff whack his peepee! But what does it take to actually remove serial offenders? The schools, players, and fans have too much invested to see It wasted via blatantly incompetent officiating. Seems there should be a mechanism for conference athletic directors and/or coaches to agree that some officials must be removed to protect the integrity of the game. Or do they get lifetime tenure? I really don’t understand.
 
#227      

illini80

Forgottonia
Flak: Bailiff whack his peepee! But what does it take to actually remove serial offenders? The schools, players, and fans have too much invested to see It wasted via blatantly incompetent officiating. Seems there should be a mechanism for conference athletic directors and/or coaches to agree that some officials must be removed to protect the integrity of the game. Or do they get lifetime tenure? I really don’t understand.
I don’t have personal knowledge, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a shortage of qualified officials.
 
#228      
I don’t have personal knowledge, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a shortage of qualified officials.
Define “qualified“ please, because these guys obviously are not. There’s probably an arbitrary course of study and certification, as well as experience (good or bad), but the average H.S. official could have properly interpreted those replays.

Here’s a constructive suggestion. Network broadcast crews bring in remote specialists to explain replays. Hire a pair of very knowledgeable replay experts to be on call to conference In with the officials on all video reviews, taking it partially out of the hands of guys like this crew and forcing the guys on the ground to defend their review. I realize it would never fly because it disempowers the guys on the ground and maybe getting others involved slows things too much.

OK, then at least give an independent expert panel oversight and firing rights at the end of each season. Coaches could anonymously submit complaints to this panel for review and purging of those who demonstrate repeated incompetence at replay interpretation.
 
#230      

Illinir1

Camdenton, MO
Same refs as the punch face loosiers game
In that game this referee crew flagged the Illini 8 times for 81 yards, while penalizing Indiana 3 times for 35 yards.

In this game the Illini were penalized 12 times for 121 yards while Purdue had 6 penalties for 80 yards. Arguably, two of Purdue's six penalties (and 30 of Purdue's 80 yards in penalties) were no negative impact to them because they were called for two unsportsmanlike conduct fouls on an Illini TD. The penalties were assessed on the ensuing kickoff...meaning the Illini kicked off from Purdue's 35 yard line. Purdue caught the kickoff at their 23 yard line, with no return......in effect a 2 yard penalty vs. a touchback.

In all of the B1G games this weekend, here were the number of penalties for each team: ILL-12 Purdue-6, IU-2 OSU-3, Neb-4 Mich-1, Maryland-7 PSU-6, Rutgers-14!!! MSU-6, Wisc-5 Iowa-3, NW-3 Minn-4. It's amazing that Illinois and Rutgers were each penalized twice as many times as their opponent and at, or nearly at, twice the next most penalized team in all B1G games (Maryland-7).
 
#231      
I realize this may be feeding meat to the lions here, but here's some info the board might find interesting...through 10 games, Illinois ranks 119th out of 131 FBS teams, in average penalty yards per game. Within the Big 10, Illinois is 13th of 14. Only Maryland is worse.

For comparison to teams currently in the AP top 10, only Tennessee is in the neighborhood, coming in at 120th of 131.

A quick look at the box scores, shows that Illinois has had seven different crews work it's ten games so far. One crew has worked three games....Indiana, Wisconsin, and Purdue. I'll go back and look at the Wisconsin post game thread and see how many comments there are on officiating.


This is over the full season to date, too.
 
#232      
A quick look at the box scores, shows that Illinois has had seven different crews work it's ten games so far. One crew has worked three games....Indiana, Wisconsin, and Purdue. I'll go back and look at the Wisconsin post game thread and see how many comments there are on officiating.


This is over the full season to date, too.
238 posts in the Wisconsin postgame thread....not one post mentions the officials. Not even in the context that it was the same crew as the Indiana game.

Like I said last night..Illinois has lost 3 games for very real football reasons, and they've won seven for very real football reasons as well. Get over the officiating folks.
 
#233      

Illini2010-11

Sugar Grove
238 posts in the Wisconsin postgame thread....not one post mentions the officials. Not even in the context that it was the same crew as the Indiana game.

Like I said last night..Illinois has lost 3 games for very real football reasons, and they've won seven for very real football reasons as well. Get over the officiating folks.
You make valid points on Illini being undisciplined, but I disagree with the entire premise of using the post-game thread from Wisconsin to justify that these officials are somehow competent. We throttled Wisconsin, why would anyone complain about officiating then? You would overlook any bad calls because we were too busy reflecting on the good performance of the team. However, in one score games, that is a completely different scenario.

Any objective observer can tell that this particular officiating crew is simply pathetic. Multiple times the referee announced the wrong down after a penalty call. I am not one for saying Illinois lost because of officiating, but in both the IU and Purdue games the officiating was a small to moderate factor in the game.

Three plays in particular this season were potentially game changing:

1) IU game where replay did not give us a TD on a pass that was clearly caught - a complete embarrassment to the entire officiating crew
2) MSU game where Tucker was allowed to change his mind on declining flag after Illini brought out kicking team - this was mind boggling error by officials
3) Purdue game - 2nd qtr interception taken away for PI, when offensive player made all the contact. Illinois would have gone into half at 14-7 at worst, instead Purdue scores next play to tie game before half - momentum changing call that had large impact on game

Yes, Illinois lost for football reasons, but officiating did come into play as well. To discount officiating is a great disservice. Officiating should never be a factor in helping decide an outcome of a game, but still we have seen at least two games where officiating may have at least changed momentum in the game. This is unacceptable by any measure, and the officials need to be held accountable.
 
#234      
You make valid points on Illini being undisciplined, but I disagree with the entire premise of using the post-game thread from Wisconsin to justify that these officials are somehow competent. We throttled Wisconsin, why would anyone complain about officiating then? You would overlook any bad calls because we were too busy reflecting on the good performance of the team. However, in one score games, that is a completely different scenario.

Any objective observer can tell that this particular officiating crew is simply pathetic. Multiple times the referee announced the wrong down after a penalty call. I am not one for saying Illinois lost because of officiating, but in both the IU and Purdue games the officiating was a small to moderate factor in the game.

Three plays in particular this season were potentially game changing:

1) IU game where replay did not give us a TD on a pass that was clearly caught - a complete embarrassment to the entire officiating crew
2) MSU game where Tucker was allowed to change his mind on declining flag after Illini brought out kicking team - this was mind boggling error by officials
3) Purdue game - 2nd qtr interception taken away for PI, when offensive player made all the contact. Illinois would have gone into half at 14-7 at worst, instead Purdue scores next play to tie game before half - momentum changing call that had large impact on game

Yes, Illinois lost for football reasons, but officiating did come into play as well. To discount officiating is a great disservice. Officiating should never be a factor in helping decide an outcome of a game, but still we have seen at least two games where officiating may have at least changed momentum in the game. This is unacceptable by any measure, and the officials need to be held accountable.
Agree 100%.

Accountability should start at the top. But it will not until the AD's of the conference demand it. Those in charge are most likely connected and untouchable within the B10 Admin structure and I have no confidence Warren would ever address it unless it involved Mich or OSU. Until the member schools demand accountability there has not, and will be none. The names are public record on the league's website. Those in charge are not difficult to find.

Look, I understand it is a difficult job. I've said this many times before. But we continue to see calls have way too much influence on the outcome of games with no efforts to prevent that from happening. Coaches and players must publicly answer questions after each game; no league or game official ever does, and the coaches are monetarily punished if they comment about it directly. The fact that these officials were assigned to the most important game of the season in the Western division that included Illinois, is evidence of - at best - a gross unawareness of what has transpired in the conference this football season (incompetence). It's up to the league. If you want your products' quality to continually lag behind other conferences you will continue with the status quo. If you strive for the best possible product quality, changes must be made. I will not hold my breath.
 
#235      

WWWWRocU

Herndon, VA
Because I was out of town, I recorded the game and finally watched it when I got back and after reading plenty of these posts. I agree with others that the players did not play up to the level of that 6 game win streak. Non-execution.
To wit:
1. Reiman did not catch that perfectly thrown touchdown pass on the razzle dazzle play.
2. DB freshman #14 Scott not realizing the end zone side line was his friend and not giving puke TE Durham a nudge to go out of bounds to negate that TD catch.
3. TDV sneaking for the first down and I'm seeing our Heisman candidate just standing there enjoying the scenery instead of helping to push TDV further to the goal line. I was yelling at the TV on this one!
Just three examples.

Otherwise:
1. We did get jobbed on Spoon's wonderful interception. Finally saw the replay from a different angle and they were just going at it mano-y-mano to position themselves to catch the ball.
2. They kept picking on the freshman #14 Scott. You can see that Scott will be good as he matures, but today a freshman ripe for the slaughter.
3. Puke Durham proved to be too tall and strong for our DBs. Pretty comical to watch Spoon trying to stop him from getting a first down there towards the end. Kept waiting for the help to show up for what seemed like hours.

There are other examples, but this is enough for now.
 
#236      
Penalties and yardage for the Illini this year:
vs. Wyoming - 7-80
@ Indiana - 8-81
vs. Virginia - 10-71
vs. Chattanooga - 2-25
@ Wisconsin - 8-75 (Wisconsin had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Iowa - 7-56 (Iowa had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Minnesota - 6-56
@ Nebraska - 8-72
vs. Michigan St. - 4-39 (MSU had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Purdue - 12-121

My take? Illinois shoots themselves in their own feet WAY too many times. That is a LOT of penalties. The officiating is a problem, but not as much as Illinois' inability to overcome bad officiating. Nor, their ability to even allow bad officiating to come into play.

Here are some ideas... How about we shut the hell up when we are walking off the field. How about we have enough game recognition about when to hit a player clearly going out of bounds or sliding. How about we worry about the times we actually are interfering with a pass and clean that up.

The officiating is bad across the country. Maybe it's the worst in the Big Ten (I'm sure there's no bias from us there :rolleyes:), but it's bad everywhere. Other teams still win. So can we. We just need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

But that PI call was bad. Let's not pretend that call didn't change the flow of the game. I won't say it changed the outcome because that was in the first half, and Illinois had PLENTY of opportunities after that to put points on the board or stop Purdue from doing so, but it was a game momentum changing call.
 
#237      
Penalties and yardage for the Illini this year:
vs. Wyoming - 7-80
@ Indiana - 8-81
vs. Virginia - 10-71
vs. Chattanooga - 2-25
@ Wisconsin - 8-75 (Wisconsin had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Iowa - 7-56 (Iowa had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Minnesota - 6-56
@ Nebraska - 8-72
vs. Michigan St. - 4-39 (MSU had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Purdue - 12-121

My take? Illinois shoots themselves in their own feet WAY too many times. That is a LOT of penalties. The officiating is a problem, but not as much as Illinois' inability to overcome bad officiating. Nor, their ability to even allow bad officiating to come into play.

Here are some ideas... How about we shut the hell up when we are walking off the field. How about we have enough game recognition about when to hit a player clearly going out of bounds or sliding. How about we worry about the times we actually are interfering with a pass and clean that up.

The officiating is bad across the country. Maybe it's the worst in the Big Ten (I'm sure there's no bias from us there :rolleyes:), but it's bad everywhere. Other teams still win. So can we. We just need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

But that PI call was bad. Let's not pretend that call didn't change the flow of the game. I won't say it changed the outcome because that was in the first half, and Illinois had PLENTY of opportunities after that to put points on the board or stop Purdue from doing so, but it was a game momentum changing call.
Officiating is “bad” all over. I know Pac 12 fans are convinced they have the absolute worst officials. And every game has missed calls and bad calls. You hope they don’t overall impact the game, but some do. For the most part, fans of the winning team don’t complain much. That doesn’t mean if your team won, it was a well- officiated game. Fans on the losing side probably can find plenty to complain about when it comes to officiating. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Iowa fans found plenty to complain about in regards to officiating after its loss. And just as likely is that Illinois fans would disagree with the Iowa fans’ complaints.

One thing I’ve often wondered about is what size is the replay monitor? It doesn’t look all that large, while most fans are watching on TVs that are quite a bit larger. Is it larger than it seems? I don’t have a huge TV like many on here likely do, but it appears to be at least twice the size of replay monitors. And with replays that are tough to see, I change the picture size from Full to TheaterWide 1 or 2 to get a better view because it is somewhat larger.
 
#238      
They should think about having only the division games count against your chances of winning the division and going to Indy instead of how they have it set up now where if your playing an opponent from the East and you lose that counts against your chances of winning a West title. It doesn’t make any sense why an Illinois team that lost two games against Indiana and MSU who are in the East, will now most likely not make it to the championship game because they lost to two teams in the East and now most likely 3 coming up against Michigan. Illinois is 4-1 against their division. At this point who cares about the division than. Whoever gets to the championship game from the West is going to lose it anyways. Just beat NW and get to a bowl game against a lesser team and win that to finish the year with 9 wins.
 
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#239      
Could get ugly against Michigan, look this team played over their heads all season and I'm sure the most die hard of fans didn't think this team would be looking at a possible 8 win season, yeah I'm disappointed on how they've performed down the stretch and basically played their way out of division title contention, however, at least we had a level of excitement and hope this season, something that has been far and few between with this program.
 
#240      
You make valid points on Illini being undisciplined, but I disagree with the entire premise of using the post-game thread from Wisconsin to justify that these officials are somehow competent. We throttled Wisconsin, why would anyone complain about officiating then? You would overlook any bad calls because we were too busy reflecting on the good performance of the team. However, in one score games, that is a completely different scenario.

Any objective observer can tell that this particular officiating crew is simply pathetic. Multiple times the referee announced the wrong down after a penalty call. I am not one for saying Illinois lost because of officiating, but in both the IU and Purdue games the officiating was a small to moderate factor in the game.

Three plays in particular this season were potentially game changing:

1) IU game where replay did not give us a TD on a pass that was clearly caught - a complete embarrassment to the entire officiating crew
2) MSU game where Tucker was allowed to change his mind on declining flag after Illini brought out kicking team - this was mind boggling error by officials
3) Purdue game - 2nd qtr interception taken away for PI, when offensive player made all the contact. Illinois would have gone into half at 14-7 at worst, instead Purdue scores next play to tie game before half - momentum changing call that had large impact on game

Yes, Illinois lost for football reasons, but officiating did come into play as well. To discount officiating is a great disservice. Officiating should never be a factor in helping decide an outcome of a game, but still we have seen at least two games where officiating may have at least changed momentum in the game. This is unacceptable by any measure, and the officials need to be held accountable.
Great summary. Yes, we lost for football reasons and yes we’ve earned far too many penalties.

What I find mind boggling and inexcusable is the official’s inability to interpret stunningly clear video replay evidence. And what kind of loony thinking allows a coach to “change his mind” on acceptance of a penalty after seeing the other team line up?

Neither replay error involved blowing a call live, in the moment, which is understandable. That’s why we have video reviews. Both involved not understanding the rules (or being visually impaired). Show those replays to 100 people and 100 would reverse the calls. There was nothing ambiguous about either replay.
 
#242      

Illini2010-11

Sugar Grove
Agree 100%.

Accountability should start at the top. But it will not until the AD's of the conference demand it. Those in charge are most likely connected and untouchable within the B10 Admin structure and I have no confidence Warren would ever address it unless it involved Mich or OSU. Until the member schools demand accountability there has not, and will be none. The names are public record on the league's website. Those in charge are not difficult to find.

Look, I understand it is a difficult job. I've said this many times before. But we continue to see calls have way too much influence on the outcome of games with no efforts to prevent that from happening. Coaches and players must publicly answer questions after each game; no league or game official ever does, and the coaches are monetarily punished if they comment about it directly. The fact that these officials were assigned to the most important game of the season in the Western division that included Illinois, is evidence of - at best - a gross unawareness of what has transpired in the conference this football season (incompetence). It's up to the league. If you want your products' quality to continually lag behind other conferences you will continue with the status quo. If you strive for the best possible product quality, changes must be made. I will not hold my breath.
I believe a simple solution is to provide the officials upstairs with more power. The on field officials have very difficult jobs, where the weather and fans impact their abilities to provide accurate results. Some calls can be easily buzzed down and corrected without even having to go to a monitor. For example, the officials upstairs should have quickly notified on-field officials that Tucker could not change his mind after declining penalty and seeing Illini formation. That is a quick buzz and statement to the on field officials, which does not change flow of game. Examples of clearly missed calls on the field the same way. A couple views of the Illini interception on tv monitor clearly showed mutual hand fighting and should have been no call (the official making call on field had a position where he only saw the play from behind). The upstairs officials could have quickly looked a couple times and told the on field officials to wait 20 seconds while they look a bit more in detail. When it is clear as day, pull the flag. This takes no real flow from the game, but it takes serious human element errors out of the game. I mean we spend minutes of time looking at turnovers, completions, and targeting in the review booth, but we cannot spend 30 seconds to correct serious errors by an official's viewpoint of a penalty? Same can be said when there is clearly a flag that should have been thrown, i.e. defender tackles receiver before the ball gets there, but there is no call.

The point is to make the play on the field 99-100% responsible for outcome of the game. Officials should never have more than 1% influence on momentum/outcome of games, but unfortunately, that is not the case. Again, Illinois lost three games because of their own issues, but the officials did play some role in the games...that should never be the case.
 
#243      
Every fanbase complains about officiating, and thinks the refs are out to get them:





Some even use it to justify losing to us:


The good news is this means the mantle for least whiny fanbase is right there for the taking. Let's go for it!
 
#244      
Penalties and yardage for the Illini this year:
vs. Wyoming - 7-80
@ Indiana - 8-81
vs. Virginia - 10-71
vs. Chattanooga - 2-25
@ Wisconsin - 8-75 (Wisconsin had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Iowa - 7-56 (Iowa had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Minnesota - 6-56
@ Nebraska - 8-72
vs. Michigan St. - 4-39 (MSU had more penalties and yardage)
vs. Purdue - 12-121

My take? Illinois shoots themselves in their own feet WAY too many times. That is a LOT of penalties. The officiating is a problem, but not as much as Illinois' inability to overcome bad officiating. Nor, their ability to even allow bad officiating to come into play.

Here are some ideas... How about we shut the hell up when we are walking off the field. How about we have enough game recognition about when to hit a player clearly going out of bounds or sliding. How about we worry about the times we actually are interfering with a pass and clean that up.

The officiating is bad across the country. Maybe it's the worst in the Big Ten (I'm sure there's no bias from us there :rolleyes:), but it's bad everywhere. Other teams still win. So can we. We just need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

But that PI call was bad. Let's not pretend that call didn't change the flow of the game. I won't say it changed the outcome because that was in the first half, and Illinois had PLENTY of opportunities after that to put points on the board or stop Purdue from doing so, but it was a game momentum changing call.
The one thing you can say for sure about that PI call, as was pointed out earlier, was that we go into halftime with a lead of at least 7 points. It's up to everyone's own thought process to guess what happens after that. My own opinion is that the second half is impacted positively for us starting with a lead.
 
#245      
I have been a 8 year season ticket holder. I was thinking of not renewing my seats after this year. This was a "prove-it" year for me. After this last week I will not renew. The Idea of giving Lunney an extension after the vanilla unimaginative play calling is to hard to watch. I will always be a fan but spending my money and the 2hour drive will no longer happen.
 
#247      

Illini2010-11

Sugar Grove
I have been a 8 year season ticket holder. I was thinking of not renewing my seats after this year. This was a "prove-it" year for me. After this last week I will not renew. The Idea of giving Lunney an extension after the vanilla unimaginative play calling is to hard to watch. I will always be a fan but spending my money and the 2hour drive will no longer happen.
I am a 17 year season ticket holder, and I can understand not wanting to make a 2 hr drive. Lately I have only been able to get out to half the games at best for family reasons. However, I think you had your mind made up long ago because this team has proven it belongs in the B1G. Has been a long time since we can utter that.
 
#248      
Yeah I am as frustrated as all can be from the last two weeks, but I could not imagine this offseason being the offseason to bail on the team. The progress is there. There's no reason to believe this is a fluke season. Our success next season will depend on getting a new QB, but there is no reason to believe we are going to drop off to a 4 win team. If anything, this should be a sign that we can have a program that can win 6-8 games a year in the B1G, which is what I think all of us could have ever asked for before this season.

Not really saying to go all out to buy stock in the program, but I feel like we are definitely a hold.
 
#249      

Ransom Stoddard

Ordained Dudeist Priest
Bloomington, IL
I have been a 8 year season ticket holder. I was thinking of not renewing my seats after this year. This was a "prove-it" year for me. After this last week I will not renew. The Idea of giving Lunney an extension after the vanilla unimaginative play calling is to hard to watch. I will always be a fan but spending my money and the 2hour drive will no longer happen.
I agree that the play calling is frustrating, but then I am reminded that Lunney is calling plays based on the players (esp the O-line) that he has and what he thinks that personnel will be successful with.

I would be shocked if Lunney and BB don't share the same frustration with our success, and for that reason alone I think pulling the plug after a year where most expectations have been exceeded would be premature. This team needs more support from the fans, not less.
 
#250      
I have been a 8 year season ticket holder. I was thinking of not renewing my seats after this year. This was a "prove-it" year for me. After this last week I will not renew. The Idea of giving Lunney an extension after the vanilla unimaginative play calling is to hard to watch. I will always be a fan but spending my money and the 2hour drive will no longer happen.
You’re certainly free to make your own choices about how to spend your time and money, but what a weird take. If this was a “prove it” year for the team, haven’t they already done more than enough so far (even with some questionable decision making)? In other words, you chose to go to the games during the Lovie years when we were punting on 4th and 1 from the opponent’s 40 yard line, but you’re going to choose not to go to future games where we’ll actually likely be competitive going forward? I dunno man, seems like a weird call.