Purdue 84, Illinois 68 Postgame

Bigtex said:

You realize kofi and our starters were in against Wisconsin and Indiana both double digit wins.

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And I believe that neither team cleared their bench. It's a mutual thing. If they've surrendered, we surrender. If they haven't, then, of course, keep them in as long as you wish.

Edit: Sounds like Gman agrees with me!

InDaAZ said:

What do y’all think of Kofi’s over-his-head pass attempt when he was trapped at the baseline? Do you think he should take that one out of his arsenal?

Also… Belo has become my favorite for myriad reasons, and he had a good game overall. But he somehow managed to play 21 minutes without an assist. Wonder when’s the last time that happened…

We will be fine. My guess is that we’ll see another new banner or two in the rafters after this season.

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The worst part about Kofi's pass was if he had turned the other way Trent was wide open in the corner

Yes, both would. Last years team would have too. This years ILLINI team beat them in 2 out of 4 halfs, tied them in 1 5 min OT period and lost in 1 5 min OT period. I think if we meet again in the Big Ten Tourny we beat them this year.

Bleedorangeandblue44 said:

I had to go back and watch that a second time. I love Kofi, and he battled last night and as others have said here it's encouraging that he had a better 2nd game vs. Purdue than his first, but that play was hard to watch. Seemed like Kofi almost just gave up. Just call a timeout at that point. You aren't the first player to be trapped and have no way out of it. Purdue's second half yesterday was a thing of beauty....unless, of course, you are like all of us here as diehard Illini fans.

Only other thing from the postgame I still was looking to hear was if there was a final answer to what Underwood and Painter were discussing. ESPN cut away from that pretty quick. I think in the past that BU has been pretty complimentary of Painter, though I'm sure both coaches can perhaps sense this is going to be quite a fight in the years going forward at the top of the Big Ten and can get under each other's skin, especially with the nonsense going on with the shot clock.

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He was proably telling him to fix his junk !!! clock.

TheFameProtector said:

After sitting on this overnight, my primary feeling is: oh well. They're better than us. More talented than us. Might be the best team in all of college basketball. That second half was reminiscent of the second half of the Baylor game -- just put their foot on our throat for five minutes and the game was already over. Upside is, even though we're clearly not the better team, we can still come out on top of the B1G. Would love to see that happen for so many different reasons, but it would also make up for being in Purdue's spot last year (best team in B1G) and not coming out with the regular season title.

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I would not say they are more talented or better than us either one. However they did play better than us in the second half. Our defense in the second half was lacking. When your shots stop falling and the other team goes on a heater its usually not going to end well. We are just as likely to end up in the final four as they are.

hooraybeer said:

after morning coffee all I can say is kudos to Purdue and Ivey. Glad to see the top level NBA talent finding its way back to the B1G. Really hope the B1G can break through and get the NCAAT championship this year.. only helps the conference as a whole

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Yes, the loss was easier to put in perspective after some coffee this morning....

I packed it in after the horn last night as it was way past my bedtime here. Varied thoughts today:

(1) It happens. Can't shoot as we did in the 2H and let them shoot as they did and stay in the game. Just gotta put it behind us and move on;

(2) I don't know that they're consistently a superior team on the floor, though they are on paper and certainly were last night in the 2H. They have an extraordinarily efficient offense but their defense can be spotty. OSU was down 20 to them in WL in the 2H and nearly won. I look at the box score from last night and note that if we just have three more treys fall in the middle of the second half, and get to the line a couple more times, the complexion of the game down the stretch changes considerably even with Ivey dominating. We were soft on the boards and still matched their rebounding. And that MLK-Day game in the SFC is much different if Kofi isn't concussed early on, IMO.

(3) In Brad's presser around 9:25 he notes that AC has had only 5 practices all season. For him to give us 20 mins last night and play as he did is remarkable. Once he can practice and play regularly, and gets his conditioning up to game quality, we'll see an additional, dangerous dimension to our team by March compared with now. And the best part is that for the BTT teams won't have seen it during the season save for the final half-dozen games. Remember, we have been playing without our starting point guard all season long. We've improvised at the PG spot and have continued winning. That makes me optimistic for a solid run during March if we're healthy.

(4) Winning out will be very tough for us and for Purdue. Any of @Rutgers, MSU and Michigan can trip us up. All three, however, are winnable. I'd be less optimistic if we had to play OSU on the road. Dumb luck that we get them once, and at home.

(5) We're fortunate that we had the easier 2/3 of the conference schedule up front when we were not at full strength. If Belo can play 20-25 consistently and ramp up to his peak self, if Trent stays healthy, if Omar and BBV can spell Kofi effectively w/o defensive letdowns, and the frosh continue to contribute mins, I like our chances for at least a share of the title. BU has done a masterful job working around lineup constraints so far.

(6) Rest. Practice. Crush the 'Cats on Sunday.

Brosky said:

Both of those teams would have beaten this Purdue team handily.

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Totally agree and that is not to take anything away from this Purdue team, because I think they are one of the best and deepest teams in the country. You jusy don't see too many teams come along like the 05 and 89 teams.

GBIllini said:

I would not say they are more talented or better than us either one. However they did play better than us in the second half. Our defense in the second half was lacking. When your shots stop falling and the other team goes on a heater its usually not going to end well. We are just as likely to end up in the final four as they are.

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I know that NBA-level talent isn't always the best measure of college-level talent/ability, but they have 3 guys on their team that would arguably be drafted before, or right after (in the case of Trevion), our best player. One of those guys is a sure-fire top 5 pick and the kind of talent you only get to see every couple of years across the whole NCAA. And then they have a number of skilled, intelligent, high-level role players to fill out the team. That is absolutely a more talented squad than we have, and one that is clearly better than us having beaten us head-to-head twice now. Now, NBA-level talent evaluation doesn't give Trent (or even Belo, yet) the credit they're due, but there is no way you can realistically put Trent on a similar plane as Ivey. Our team's greatness comes from having great college players, a number of high-level role players that can go off on any given night, and gobs of experience that can overcome pure, youthful talent. I'm not saying we can't beat Purdue if we face them again or that we don't have a good chance of a deep tourney run, I'm simply saying they're a better, more talented team. Sometimes the more talented team loses (see Loyola).

TheFameProtector said:

I know that NBA-level talent isn't always the best measure of college-level talent/ability, but they have 3 guys on their team that would arguably be drafted before, or right after (in the case of Trevion), our best player. One of those guys is a sure-fire top 5 pick and the kind of talent you only get to see every couple of years across the whole NCAA. And then they have a number of skilled, intelligent, high-level role players to fill out the team. That is absolutely a more talented squad than we have, and one that is clearly better than us having beaten us head-to-head twice now. Now, NBA-level talent evaluation doesn't give Trent (or even Belo, yet) the credit they're due, but there is no way you can realistically put Trent on a similar plane as Ivey. Our team's greatness comes from having great college players, a number of high-level role players that can go off on any given night, and gobs of experience that can overcome pure, youthful talent. I'm not saying we can't beat Purdue if we face them again or that we don't have a good chance of a deep tourney run, I'm simply saying they're a better, more talented team. Sometimes the more talented team loses (see Loyola).

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Ivey is just a different animal. He is as gifted as anyone athletically. He is going to have similar performances against NBA players next year. When he goes off like he did last night, there aren't many guys in the world who could slow him down. The problem with Purdue is that you have to deny the post AND Ivey defensively. Its really difficult to do both. It is very much the Kofi/Ayo conundrum we presented last year. It's not unbeatable, but beating it has as much to do with them as what you can do to them. If they stay poised and confident, you probably aren't winning regardless of how well you play.

Mackey is not the fanciest arena, but it was the loudest place I've ever been, and I've been to dozens of venues. My ears still hurt.

blackdog said:

The worst part about Kofi's pass was if he had turned the other way Trent was wide open in the corner

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Easy for me to say because I'm not seven foot tall, but maybe he should have just jumped straight up and attempted to dunk the ball. Hopefully one of the three guys fouling him would've been called for a foul.
Note: I know the comment I'm responding to was meant to be a joke. I get it and I'll give you that it was funny.

Emerson Bigguns said:

Ivey is just a different animal. He is as gifted as anyone athletically. He is going to have similar performances against NBA players next year. When he goes off like he did last night, there aren't many guys in the world who could slow him down. The problem with Purdue is that you have to deny the post AND Ivey defensively. Its really difficult to do both. It is very much the Kofi/Ayo conundrum we presented last year. It's not unbeatable, but beating it has as much to do with them as what you can do to them. If they stay poised and confident, you probably aren't winning regardless of how well you play.

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Yes, and then you also factor in a high volume 41% shooter (Stefanovic) from the arc, and you see why their offense is such a force. Three teams have beaten them, so it can be done. Good news is that, outside a possible rematch in the B1G tourney, we won’t have to face a team of that caliber until a couple rounds into the NCAAs.

Their student section is HUGE!

number1IlliniFan said:

Mackey is not the fanciest arena, but it was the loudest place I've ever been, and I've been to dozens of venues. My ears still hurt.

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The loss isn't the end of the world, we've played Purdue very evenly for 70 out of 90 minutes, we just got blown out the last 20, it's not a mismatch talent wise and we're fully capable of beating them obviously - I do think our staff needs to go into the lab and make some adjustments though (which I'm sure they are doing). The ones that come to mind for me are:

1) Digging down on Edey on the dribble - he's so slow in making his post move and is driving his shoulder into the defender to back his way down, it's almost a crime not to dig down on him with one of our guards - his dribble is like 5 feet in the air and is very slow, if nothing else you get him to pick the ball up - I know we don't like to do this against anyone because our philosophy is to defend the 3 at all times, but I think we should make this adjustment against Edey only

2) Kofi needs to show more on the screens Edey sets to make the dribbler go around him, it was completely Ole defense in the second half on high ball screens

3) Trapping on Ivey - he's clearly the best player on the court and BU has a lot of respect for him, so I think he warrants a trap and double when he's dribbling out front - we can't let him go one on one the whole game - I think we need to live with Hunter beating us and help off him

4) Playing Big - going with Kofi and Payne/BBV in the game at the same time - so Kofi is not guarding the other teams big the whole game will give him a break, BBV has been great defensively and him in for DMW in particular would free us up defensively for Kofi to provide weak side help for the post which would be huge

Spokane Illini said:

Tough game in the 2nd half. We made tough 3's in the first half and missed wide open 3's in the 2nd half. Kofi has been neutralized by Purdue's bigs in both games. He starts to get frustrated and then won't pass out of double and triple teams. Ivey is basically Purdue's Ayo this year. Tremendous player and scores from anywhere making him tough to guard. Bright spots were Melendez having a great showing with limited minutes. He is going to be a player for use down the road.

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Totally disagree, he definitely was not neutralized. He mor than held his own. We had trouble getting him the ball and several times when we did and he was doubled nobody moved to an open spot where he could get it to them.

Emerson Bigguns said:

Ivey is just a different animal. He is as gifted as anyone athletically. He is going to have similar performances against NBA players next year. When he goes off like he did last night, there aren't many guys in the world who could slow him down. The problem with Purdue is that you have to deny the post AND Ivey defensively. Its really difficult to do both. It is very much the Kofi/Ayo conundrum we presented last year. It's not unbeatable, but beating it has as much to do with them as what you can do to them. If they stay poised and confident, you probably aren't winning regardless of how well you play.

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This is a marvelous take.

The Illini have a lot of nice “pieces”. Good-to-great players in their roles. And many days and nights, that is enough to get the job done.

But there’s a problem. Players who are one or two dimensional players. No Alpha to step in when the game is getting out of control like with Purdue or the other close losses.

Every ‘Elite’ team has that one multi-dimensional player that can take over a game in a multitude of ways. This is what the Illini need for the future.

And yes — that’s not exactly breaking news. But it still is a floor fact.

When thinking about each of the Illini... one aspect of their game quickly comes to mind. Inside presence. Shooter. Penetrator. Scrapper.

But what is the second good aspect of their game? Or a third?

Coaching staff no doubt knows this. They are moving the good pieces around in the best ways to succeed in the moment.

Look, we love these guys. They are busting their rears and making Illini Nation proud. And they are giving all of what they have.

Let’s enjoy the rest of the season and get at least to the Sweet Sixteen. And maybe beyond.

All you can ask of someone is to give it the best of what they have. And with this group... They have that kind of heart. Sometimes, heart is enough. Sometimes not.

When these guys are on a roll it is pure bliss. But then there are those four-to-five minute stretches when they can’t buy a basket.

But the more dimensions to your game... the road does get much easier.

blackdog said:

My biggest takeaway next day is Illinois really didn't play that badly in the 2nd half. They got shots that we all be happy for them to take over and over they just didn't drop. On defense it wasn't a lot of blown coverages (maybe a few early in the half) that caused Purdue to get open looks they were simply able to make shots over or through contact. That and Ivey running pick and roll with Edey is just unfair because Edey absolutely swallows the on ball defender.

This wasn't a game like Maryland where they just lost their minds and forgot how to play basketball. I feel like if we were able to play back that half with the same shots most of the time the results would not look so lopsided.

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I agree we played better in the 2nd half last night than against Maryland. However this is the third game this year where we looked defeated (Cincy Maryland and last night).

We seemed to play decent defense but there was a stretch they couldn’t miss and we could not hit the open shot.

Trent was also really off last night. I think he is the heart of the team we need his defense and at least 10 points. I am glad he came back in after the knee contact

Navy_illini said:

I agree we played better in the 2nd half last night than against Maryland. However this is the third game this year where we looked defeated (Cincy Maryland and last night).

We seemed to play decent defense but there was a stretch they couldn’t miss and we could not hit the open shot.

Trent was also really off last night. I think he is the heart of the team we need his defense and at least 10 points. I am glad he came back in after the knee contact

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Rewatched the 2nd half and while Ivey was the show and we couldn’t come close to stopping him, Purdue just took it to us. They were more aggressive, more physical, and yes we missed open looks, but we were rushing because of their defensive pressure. Edey doesn’t look strong, but I’m amazed at how hard it is for Kofi to move him. I don’t like his game but have to give him credit for being better than I thought he was. Regarding Trent, he just couldn’t get a decent look. They (Ivey) really took him out of the game. I think we see them again. Just play our game against everyone else and we will be fine.

First time posting although I've been lurking for decades. Just wanted to say how happy I am that Brad Underwood has this program back to where it ought to be. A bloody nose from Purdue notwithstanding, this program is on its feet and swinging away. With an everchanging roster, this year has been fun so far and I expect an exciting finish. With Illinois and Purdue slugging it out I'm taken back to the Gene Keady days. Good stuff. (yeah, I'm old)

Anyway, I thought some might find this interesting. Using Kenpom's probabilities for wins in the remaining 7 conference games I determined the probability of each of the current Big Ten leaders winning out, getting to 6 more wins or better, getting to 5 more wins or getting to 4 more wins or better:

Probability of winning out:
IL-6.2%, Pur-14.4%, Wisc-2.8%

Probability of winning 6 or more to finish 16-4 or better
IL-28.%, Pur-48%, Wisc-17.%

Probability of winning 5 or more (15-5 or better)
IL-61%, Pur-80%, Wisc-47%

Probability of winning 4 or more (14-6 or better)
IL-82%, Pur-92%, Wisc-75%

So odds are good that 1 or more teams will get to 15-5 and Purdue has about a 50/50 shot of getting to 16 wins. If Purdue does get to 16-4 it looks something like 50/50 that they would be sharing the top of the Big Ten with either us or Wisconsin.

Go Illini!

I believe I had a slightly different perspective on last night’s game. I had the pleasure of watching TV at an open air bar (masks optional) in Tamarindo, Costa Rica. I got to see two really good basketball teams compete . Unfortunately, the team I support lost. Despite my surroundings, I found Illinois’ defeat very unsettling. I had not only my own garbage to worry about but now the future of the whole darn Illinois basketball program began weighing on me. As a temporary escape, I fled to a very small casino in Tamarindo. Here, serendipitously ( I think that’s a word) , I met a delightful young woman named China. Over the next hour or so her counsel and hands on experience at stress relief gave rise to a personal epiphany . I realize now that there are things that I have absolutely no control over & I need to learn to go with the flow. Pura Vida!

bartwa said:

I believe I had a slightly different perspective on last night’s game. I had the pleasure of watching TV at an open air bar (masks optional) in Tamarindo, Costa Rica. I got to see two really good basketball teams compete . Unfortunately, the team I support lost. Despite my surroundings, I found Illinois’ defeat very unsettling. I had not only my own garbage to worry about but now the future of the whole darn Illinois basketball program began weighing on me. As a temporary escape, I fled to a very small casino in Tamarindo. Here, serendipitously ( I think that’s a word) , I met a delightful young woman named China. Over the next hour or so her counsel and hands on experience at stress relief gave rise to a personal epiphany . I realize now that there are things that I have absolutely no control over & I need to learn to go with the flow. Pura Vida!

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Have you met @Pruman? Or, more to the point, are you related?

altgeld88 said:

Have you met @Pruman? Or, more to the point, are you related?

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I was wondering if NL #4 was on vacation or something

bartwa said:

I believe I had a slightly different perspective on last night’s game. I had the pleasure of watching TV at an open air bar (masks optional) in Tamarindo, Costa Rica. I got to see two really good basketball teams compete . Unfortunately, the team I support lost. Despite my surroundings, I found Illinois’ defeat very unsettling. I had not only my own garbage to worry about but now the future of the whole darn Illinois basketball program began weighing on me. As a temporary escape, I fled to a very small casino in Tamarindo. Here, serendipitously ( I think that’s a word) , I met a delightful young woman named China. Over the next hour or so her counsel and hands on experience at stress relief gave rise to a personal epiphany . I realize now that there are things that I have absolutely no control over & I need to learn to go with the flow. Pura Vida!

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What the h-e-- just happened?