St. Louis Cardinals 2015 Season

Ryllini · Dec 12, 2015

illini8507 said:
I disagree about it being a big blow. He's a great player who would have helped us, and now he plays for our chief rivals in our own division. It's the money that makes it palatable for me. He's not worth that to us. We don't have the money that chicago has, they can absorb a bad contract (IF it turns into one.) We can not. Have to be smarter with our money. 20M annual would have been a reach for us, 23 is ridiculous. I think we are all in agreement there. It just sucks losing players to the cubs is all.

I'll tell you this, if it wasn't Heyward, it was going to be Gordon for them and we would all still have our "Oh Crap" faces on. The really big blow will come if we don't land a Gordon, Cespedes, or Upton, then we would've lost a good player to our rivals and didn't get anything on the market and probably will have a Denard Span or Dexter Fowler on our hands. We did chase JHey, but glad we didn't over spend for us just to keep him away from the Cubs. It is a blow, but if we find an outfielder to plug in the middle of our order, it is a huge win for us.

mattcoldagelli · Dec 12, 2015

dsboyce said:
I understand that WAR is the popular statistic right now. I believe it is very flawed, though. It places too much emphasis on defense.

I can see why that would bother you with your belief that OPS is the ultimate measure of a player's worth.

illini8507 · Dec 12, 2015

Ryllini said:
I'll tell you this, if it wasn't Heyward, it was going to be Gordon for them and we would all still have our "Oh Crap" faces on. The really big blow will come if we don't land a Gordon, Cespedes, or Upton, then we would've lost a good player to our rivals and didn't get anything on the market and probably will have a Denard Span or Dexter Fowler on our hands. We did chase JHey, but glad we didn't over spend for us just to keep him away from the Cubs. It is a blow, but if we find an outfielder to plug in the middle of our order, it is a huge win for us.

All true.

IAmChrisFarley · Dec 12, 2015

Cubs paying Heyward 81-87 million the first 3 years, then I bet he will opt out after that.

ThreatLevelMidnight · Dec 12, 2015

IAmChrisFarley said:
Cubs paying Heyward 81-87 million the first 3 years, then I bet he will opt out after that.

Source on the numbers? I've seen that it could be not as front-loaded as people think.

Also, the only way Heyward doesnt opt-out after year 3/4 is if he has severely underperformed during his time in Chicago. By that time, revenues will be higher for MLB teams and players will be getting PAIDDDDDDDD. He'll still be in his prime (29 yrs old) and looking for another big contract.

Illwinsagain · Dec 14, 2015

the national said:
No sour grapes here but this gives the cardinals options to fill some more important needs, which is a good 4th hitter who can scare oposing pitchers. We need a 1st baseman, not a right fielder. The sad part to me of not getting Hayward is that he is a perfect fit for Chicago. He is exactly what they were missing last year. I really liked our young guys. Pham, piscotty and especially Grichuk have a lot of potential. Lets face it, we need to bring in some young fresh blood in the lineup everyday and we got that at the end of last year and won. We are really close to having all the pieces and getting a first baseman would do it. A proven starter wouldn't hurt either

Would have loved to keep him, but I agree that outfield is not our concern. I would love a talented 5 tool shortstop (move Paralta and/or Carpenter) or power hitting 1st baseman that doesn't strike out TOO much. If they go outfield, then yes, Piscotty has shown his versatility.

Illwinsagain · Dec 14, 2015

IAmChrisFarley said:
Cubs paying Heyward 81-87 million the first 3 years, then I bet he will opt out after that.

Smart on their part if true. That is when they have to start paying their talented rookies. Paying $29M for 3 years and $16M for 5, if he stays. It's good to have that kind of cash

illini8507 · Dec 14, 2015

Guess we don't have to worry about how to feel about a potential cueto signing anymore.

Also, from the sound of Mo's most recent comments we probably don't need to worry about signing anybody dynamic to help with our offense, cause, you know, it's been so great the past few seasons... smh.

Ryllini · Dec 14, 2015

illini8507 said:
Guess we don't have to worry about how to feel about a potential cueto signing anymore.

Also, from the sound of Mo's most recent comments we probably don't need to worry about signing anybody dynamic to help with our offense, cause, you know, it's been so great the past few seasons... smh.

Yea, the more I have thought about Gordon, the less likely I see it happening. Holliday plays left field, Gordon plays left, so he would have to agree to a move to center or right field.

dgcrow · Dec 15, 2015

Heyward says the Cubs' youth was one of the major reasons he signed with them:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...lent-was-deciding-factor-free-agency-decision

I wonder if he would have thought differently if the Cardinals had beaten the Cubs in the playoffs.

hermie1985 · Dec 16, 2015

Interesting to watch the similarities the Diamondbacks have with the TLR Cards. A top notch ace in Grienke (Carpenter) a solid young pitcher acquired by trade from Atlanta in Miller (Wainwright) and perhaps the best first basemen in baseball in Goldschmidt (Pujols).

It's just nice knowing that the Diamondbacks will be there if the Cubs get by us.

Illwinsagain · Dec 17, 2015

Heard something about Yadi being out for spring training on the radio. Anyone hear anything out there, blocked at work from checking regular sites.

DeadPanic · Dec 17, 2015

Illwinsagain said:
Heard something about Yadi being out for spring training on the radio. Anyone hear anything out there, blocked at work from checking regular sites.

Had to have another surgery Tuesday on his left thumb. First one didn't take. Cards are hopeful he'll be back for Opening Day.

the national · Dec 17, 2015

Maybe its just me, but next year will be a re-building year. I think we have a few holes that wont be filled by beginning of the season. I like our young players but we will look the same for next year, minus two huge parts. I think Mo really dropped the ball this off season. Maybe the Hayward signing distracted him from the other glaring needs (big bat at first base, starting pitcher). Either way, we will be a mix of older talent and young inexperienced talent. Pham, Piscotty and Grichuk are excellent in the short streches we saw them, but I would feel better with a more imposing bat in our line up. The other big question is can those guys sustain a full season of what they did in August/Sept of last year. I guess we are going to give them a shot.

I also have fears that Yadi wont heal properly from his surgeries and we might start to see his decline, albeit a slow decline. Add that to Holliday's slow decline and you can see why Hayward wanted to play with youth. Hayward would have been the man in STL if he stayed but maybe that is too much pressure for him, i dunno. Hopefully we can still get something out of our old guys, we will certainly need them this season.

orangeroses07 · Dec 17, 2015

Guys like Wong, Grichuk, and Martinez have got to take the next step next season. All have proven they have the stuff to compete at the major league level, but haven't shown it over a full season. Still think we should go out and try to sign a Cespedes, Upton, or Davis and maybe a pitcher before it's all said and done. Going to be interesting to see what happens.

Illwinsagain · Dec 17, 2015

orangeroses07 said:
Guys like Wong, Grichuk, and Martinez have got to take the next step next season. All have proven they have the stuff to compete at the major league level, but haven't shown it over a full season. Still think we should go out and try to sign a Cespedes, Upton, or Davis and maybe a pitcher before it's all said and done. Going to be interesting to see what happens.

Don't forget Wacha. Also, the injury concerns of established veterans that have been hurt, Adam, Jaime, Matt and Yadi.

the national · Dec 18, 2015

I feel a little bit better after ranting a little bit &#55357;&#56841; honestly, last year we were sooo hurt. Its hard to imagine what our team would have looked like healthy. Imagine if we had the starter Wainwright and Martinez for the cubs series. I love Matt Holliday but last year when he got hurt, I all but gave up on him. He might surprise next year. Heck, even Matt Adams could show up and remind us why they call him Big City. Missing out on all of the fireworks of the off season stings, even worse when we lose to the cubs, but our cupboard isn't bare if we get healthy.

Illwinsagain · Dec 18, 2015

the national said:
I feel a little bit better after ranting a little bit &#55357;&#56841; honestly, last year we were sooo hurt. Its hard to imagine what our team would have looked like healthy. Imagine if we had the starter Wainwright and Martinez for the cubs series. I love Matt Holliday but last year when he got hurt, I all but gave up on him. He might surprise next year. Heck, even Matt Adams could show up and remind us why they call him Big City. Missing out on all of the fireworks of the off season stings, even worse when we lose to the cubs, but our cupboard isn't bare if we get healthy.

I hope Holliday is healthy and plays 135 games, splitting time with the young bucks. If Adams gets back to what he looked like that first September, 1st base solved. Healthy Wainwright, Wacha, Martinez, Garcia and rookie to be named later. Carpenter remembers not to swing for the fences every at bat, Paralta does what he does. Wong continues to grow. Oh, and Yadi gets healthy and we actually rest him with the new catcher. Hey, it's the Holidays (not to be confused with Matt), a guy can dream, right?

Carpenter
Piscotty
Holliday
Adams
Peralta
Molina
Grichuk
Wong
Pitcher

I've seen much worse than this....

Oh, and 7 of the 8 are pretty good with the glove.

Shane Walsh · Dec 18, 2015

FTFY, and oh what a difference a decade makes.....

I feel a little bit better after ranting a little bit �� honestly, last year we were sooo hurt. Its hard to imagine what our team would have looked like healthy. Imagine if we had the starter Wood and Prior. I love Sammy Sosa but last year when he left early, I all but gave up on him. He might surprise next year. Heck, even Neifi Perez could show up and remind us why they call him Big City. Missing out on all of the fireworks of the off season stings, even worse when we lose to the cards, but our cupboard isn't bare if we get healthy.

I hope Mabry is healthy and plays 135 games, splitting time with the young bucks. If Juan Pierre gets back to what he looked like that first September, lead off hitter solved. Healthy Zambrano, Wood, Prior, Maddux and rookie to be named later. Ramirez remembers not to swing for the fences every at bat, Jones does what he does. Theriot continues to grow. Oh, and Walker gets healthy and we actually rest him with the new second basemen. Hey, it's the Holidays (not to be confused with Matt), a guy can dream, right?

Pierre
Walker
Lee
Ramirez
Jones
Barrett
Murton
Cedeno
Pitcher

I've seen much worse than this....

Oh, and 7 of the 8 are pretty good with the glove.

Illwinsagain · Dec 18, 2015

Shane Walsh said:
FTFY, and oh what a difference a decade makes.....

I feel a little bit better after ranting a little bit �� honestly, last year we were sooo hurt. Its hard to imagine what our team would have looked like healthy. Imagine if we had the starter Wood and Prior. I love Sammy Sosa but last year when he left early, I all but gave up on him. He might surprise next year. Heck, even Neifi Perez could show up and remind us why they call him Big City. Missing out on all of the fireworks of the off season stings, even worse when we lose to the cards, but our cupboard isn't bare if we get healthy.

I hope Mabry is healthy and plays 135 games, splitting time with the young bucks. If Juan Pierre gets back to what he looked like that first September, lead off hitter solved. Healthy Zambrano, Wood, Prior, Maddux and rookie to be named later. Ramirez remembers not to swing for the fences every at bat, Jones does what he does. Theriot continues to grow. Oh, and Walker gets healthy and we actually rest him with the new second basemen. Hey, it's the Holidays (not to be confused with Matt), a guy can dream, right?

Pierre
Walker
Lee
Ramirez
Jones
Barrett
Murton
Cedeno
Pitcher

I've seen much worse than this....

Oh, and 7 of the 8 are pretty good with the glove.

Ouch! :hurl:

illini8507 · Dec 18, 2015

I had a whole post typed up about Ian Desmond, but somehow I lost it before I could post it. Long story short... thoughts? He's still available, move Peralta to 3rd or 1st, carp can play first. Gives lots of flexibility. He had a down year in 2015 offensively, but still not bad. Has hit 25 hr in the past.

Just spitballing. I haven't heard his name linked to the cardinals

Illwinsagain · Dec 18, 2015

illini8507 said:
I had a whole post typed up about Ian Desmond, but somehow I lost it before I could post it. Long story short... thoughts? He's still available, move Peralta to 3rd or 1st, carp can play first. Gives lots of flexibility. He had a down year in 2015 offensively, but still not bad. Has hit 25 hr in the past.

Just spitballing. I haven't heard his name linked to the cardinals

He just turned 30 though, obviously, would rather get younger. I haven't watched a lot of the Nats. Is he an upgrade defensively?

illini8507 · Dec 18, 2015

Illwinsagain said:
He just turned 30 though, obviously, would rather get younger. I haven't watched a lot of the Nats. Is he an upgrade defensively?

My thinking was that with him being older it would be a shorter contract, then he wouldn't be holding younger guys out of the lineup permanently. His defense is good if I recall correctly.

Just seemed like the under the radar aging veteran signing that is up Mo's alley.

Ryllini · Dec 18, 2015

illini8507 said:
My thinking was that with him being older it would be a shorter contract, then he wouldn't be holding younger guys out of the lineup permanently. His defense is good if I recall correctly.

Just seemed like the under the radar aging veteran signing that is up Mo's alley.

I would pass, his defense will give you 20-27 errors a season on a full time basis and his overall batting numbers seem to be going the wrong direction since 2012. His HR numbers are steady, the K's are rising for him.

There should be a home for him, as shortstop isn't terribly deep on the MLB level, but it seems more and more talent is rising into that position.

dgcrow · Dec 18, 2015

Holliday working out at first base:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/mlb/write...y-works-out-at-1b-possibly-opening-up-of-spot

Hope Cards go after Alex Gordon for left field.

St. Louis Cardinals 2015 Season

aka "Captain Oblivious"