St. Louis Cardinals 2021

#701      
Paducah, Ky
I don't post on 247 at all, but based on the tone of your post I'm going to guess this Audi and you don't exactly see eye-to-eye.

I respect your opinion, and am not trying to convince anyone Carp was a good contract. He clearly wasn't! I think if you look around the league you'll see a lot of contracts just as bad, or even worse, and for anyone that thinks we can find a GM to replace Mo who's never made a deal that turned out bad, I'd be glad to hear some names. For some examples of some really bad recent contracts, take a look at the linked article. What's interesting to me is there are no Cardinals.

I haven't posted on 247 in 4-5 years .........I never had a problem with him there ....I don't have a problem with you.....Not at all , so if you took my ""Tone "" that way then my bad.............You come across as an intelligent poster with a somewhat argumentative "" Tone "" to your posts...But that is probably just me..........

being a life long Cardinal fan i really only care about their roster and how moves are made to benefit the team......

illwinsagain had a very good post up above and I will leave it at this....i agree with his thought regarding Carp's contract and now I will move on to a future discussion hopefully about who the new Cardinals SS will be ..........

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.......You made me think....you really really did....but it didn't change my mind at all.....JMHO
 
#702      
If memory serves, my issue with the Carp deal was the timing. He had one year, plus an option left (maybe no option). For a guy in his 30's, I thought it would have been prudent to let him play, and pay if you have to. No other team would have offered him that much, even if he had a similar year to the one before.
I think that's easy to say now, but keep in mind the following offseason Josh Donaldson (same age as Carp) following a 4.6 WAR season (same as Carp in 2018), got a 4 year $92 million dollar deal on the open market. If Carp had a season in 2019 like the one he had in 2018, he'd have been significantly more expensive. It was a gamble, it didn't work out. All of these multi-year deals are a gamble. Our fanbase salivated over the prospect of landing Giancarlo Stanton a few years back, and he's widely regarded one of the worst contracts in the MLB right now (significantly worse than Carp).
 
#703      
I haven't posted on 247 in 4-5 years .........I never had a problem with him there ....I don't have a problem with you.....Not at all , so if you took my ""Tone "" that way then my bad.............You come across as an intelligent poster with a somewhat argumentative "" Tone "" to your posts...But that is probably just me..........

being a life long Cardinal fan i really only care about their roster and how moves are made to benefit the team......

illwinsagain had a very good post up above and I will leave it at this....i agree with his thought regarding Carp's contract and now I will move on to a future discussion hopefully about who the new Cardinals SS will be ..........

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.......You made me think....you really really did....but it didn't change my mind at all.....JMHO
I probably read too much into the multiple question marks, lol. Used to have a boss who did that in emails, and it was never a good thing...
 
#704      
Paducah, Ky
I probably read too much into the multiple question marks, lol. Used to have a boss who did that in emails, and it was never a good thing...
We are cool bro.......I used to use multiple ???? when I was a manager at a large financial services company......Sometimes printed constructive feedback worked better than a face to face meeting...i found my reps remembered my thoughts more with hard copy to look at as some either didn't pay attention or forgot what my intent was....

lol..............................
 
#705      
Re: Carpenter. If you’ll allow a non-Cards fan to make an observation, I think you guys are a little spoiled by Molina, the ageless wonder.

It looks to me like Carpenter did what 33-year old players usually do - decline. Bat speed starts to go down and the results fall off a cliff. He was a late bloomer who didn’t become a regular until he was 27. So you didn’t get as long of a peak as you would have hoped, but I don’t see anything particularly unusual about his career trajectory.

Which is why I think the 2-year extension headed into his year 33 season when he was still under team control for another year was a bad move for the GM.
 
#707      
Paducah, Ky
Re: Carpenter. If you’ll allow a non-Cards fan to make an observation, I think you guys are a little spoiled by Molina, the ageless wonder.

It looks to me like Carpenter did what 33-year old players usually do - decline. Bat speed starts to go down and the results fall off a cliff. He was a late bloomer who didn’t become a regular until he was 27. So you didn’t get as long of a peak as you would have hoped, but I don’t see anything particularly unusual about his career trajectory.

Which is why I think the 2-year extension headed into his year 33 season when he was still under team control for another year was a bad move for the GM.
Thanks for your observation.......

I'm not spoiled by Molina but I catch your drift...........Yadi has a mindset of proving everyone that he is a great catcher and now a very good hitter....His knock coming up was gold glove defense and punch and judy hitter......Well , 18 years later , the gold glove defense has been proven true and he has proven to me at least that he is a very good hitter and a very good Clutch hitter.....

I guess you can say I'm spoiled but I have never taken any thing for granted with Yadi except his ability to play through pain and be probably the most respected player and person in the Cardinals organization...wouldn't surprise me to see Yadi managing the redbirds in the future......

In my 60 + years of watching baseball , if I had to assemble a team from all I have seen i would pick Yadi as my starting catcher and not worry about it at all.....you take Bench , Piazza ,I. Rodriguez , whoever else you want and I'll be fine with Yadi on my team behind the plate....I'm very biased but I think yadi is the best catcher all around that I have seen......JMHO
 
#708      
Thanks for your observation.......

I'm not spoiled by Molina but I catch your drift...........Yadi has a mindset of proving everyone that he is a great catcher and now a very good hitter....His knock coming up was gold glove defense and punch and judy hitter......Well , 18 years later , the gold glove defense has been proven true and he has proven to me at least that he is a very good hitter and a very good Clutch hitter.....

I guess you can say I'm spoiled but I have never taken any thing for granted with Yadi except his ability to play through pain and be probably the most respected player and person in the Cardinals organization...wouldn't surprise me to see Yadi managing the redbirds in the future......

In my 60 + years of watching baseball , if I had to assemble a team from all I have seen i would pick Yadi as my starting catcher and not worry about it at all.....you take Bench , Piazza ,I. Rodriguez , whoever else you want and I'll be fine with Yadi on my team behind the plate....I'm very biased but I think yadi is the best catcher all around that I have seen......JMHO
I pity the poor soul is who the next Cardinal catcher. The bar has been set so high. Go all the way back to Tim McCarver, the Cardinals have really been blessed at catcher - IMHO, the most important position in baseball. Yadi is far and away the best of that bunch. I am 60 years old, a Cardinal fan from the womb. I have literally watch thousands of Cardinal games and listened to even more, Yadi is my favorite EVER! His value cannot be overstated.
 
#709      
I pity the poor soul is who the next Cardinal catcher. The bar has been set so high. Go all the way back to Tim McCarver, the Cardinals have really been blessed at catcher - IMHO, the most important position in baseball. Yadi is far and away the best of that bunch. I am 60 years old, a Cardinal fan from the womb. I have literally watch thousands of Cardinal games and listened to even more, Yadi is my favorite EVER! His value cannot be overstated.
We are honestly a very lucky fanbase to have had Yadi. Absolute legend. Nothing better than Yadi embarrassing base runners.


FWIW, Yadi's likely replacement is Ivan Herrera, who is ranked as our #5 prospect. He seems to be highly regarded, and as I recall his emergence was part of the reason the org felt ok dealing Carson Kelly as part of the Goldschmidt trade.
 
#710      
Re: Carpenter. If you’ll allow a non-Cards fan to make an observation, I think you guys are a little spoiled by Molina, the ageless wonder.

It looks to me like Carpenter did what 33-year old players usually do - decline. Bat speed starts to go down and the results fall off a cliff. He was a late bloomer who didn’t become a regular until he was 27. So you didn’t get as long of a peak as you would have hoped, but I don’t see anything particularly unusual about his career trajectory.

Which is why I think the 2-year extension headed into his year 33 season when he was still under team control for another year was a bad move for the GM.
Good post. I was going to mention that he was a late bloomer as well. Being selected in the 13th round sorta is an indicator that he wasn't highly regarded coming out of college. From what I can see he wasn't drafted coming out of high school nor after his soph or Jr years. (To be fair he had Tommy John surgery so that is part of the reason.) He wasn't drafted until after his RS Sr year. The premiere players are selected after high school or a few years in college.
Carp had to work hard to get to the majors. That show a tremendous work ethic. He flew through the minor leagues making up for lost time. That's a plus on his side too. Nevertheless I was a bit puzzled when he was given the big extension.
One of the things that doesn't make sense to me is if his bat has slowed down, why isn't he going to left more often? A slower bat tends to lead to the bat not getting around quick enough and the ball being put in play the opposite side. Yet Matt always seemed to hit the ball to the second baseman who played deep and towards the 1st base line.
 
#711      
Paducah, Ky
Good post. I was going to mention that he was a late bloomer as well. Being selected in the 13th round sorta is an indicator that he wasn't highly regarded coming out of college. From what I can see he wasn't drafted coming out of high school nor after his soph or Jr years. (To be fair he had Tommy John surgery so that is part of the reason.) He wasn't drafted until after his RS Sr year. The premiere players are selected after high school or a few years in college.
Carp had to work hard to get to the majors. That show a tremendous work ethic. He flew through the minor leagues making up for lost time. That's a plus on his side too. Nevertheless I was a bit puzzled when he was given the big extension.
One of the things that doesn't make sense to me is if his bat has slowed down, why isn't he going to left more often? A slower bat tends to lead to the bat not getting around quick enough and the ball being put in play the opposite side. Yet Matt always seemed to hit the ball to the second baseman who played deep and towards the 1st base line.
Nice post wpr.....lots of good background info also......I applaud Carp for a good work ethic and the path it took to become a major league player.......He had some really good years with the redbirds and I don't want anyone to think I didn't realize his history....

But , to the point of his bat slowing down....A slower bat can also mean more foul balls and even missed swings altogether........If the thought you posted about a slower bat leads to more balls put in play to the opposite side then we would have seen a much higher batting average and on base %......A slower ball and taking more pitches for strikes that he used to not do put him at a 0-2 or 1-2 count and then he would do as you said and hit it to the second baseman into shallow right field....He did still hit liners and make good contact , but had nothing to show for it...

I wish Carp well but it's time to move on and if the universal DH happens i sure hope he is NOT MO's choice.....

JMHO
 
#712      
Good post. I was going to mention that he was a late bloomer as well. Being selected in the 13th round sorta is an indicator that he wasn't highly regarded coming out of college. From what I can see he wasn't drafted coming out of high school nor after his soph or Jr years. (To be fair he had Tommy John surgery so that is part of the reason.) He wasn't drafted until after his RS Sr year. The premiere players are selected after high school or a few years in college.
Carp had to work hard to get to the majors. That show a tremendous work ethic. He flew through the minor leagues making up for lost time. That's a plus on his side too. Nevertheless I was a bit puzzled when he was given the big extension.
One of the things that doesn't make sense to me is if his bat has slowed down, why isn't he going to left more often? A slower bat tends to lead to the bat not getting around quick enough and the ball being put in play the opposite side. Yet Matt always seemed to hit the ball to the second baseman who played deep and towards the 1st base line.
Found an article with good data based analysis. Looks like his exit velocity was up in 2021, meaning he was actually hitting the ball harder. Problem is he was pulling 75% of his ground balls and hitting another 18% up the middle. That's basically 93% of ground balls going right into the shift, so he's getting barely any hits on grounders. At the same time on flyballs (where homers come from!) he's only pulling 16% (52% to center, 32% oppo). This is bad because he generates the most HR power from pulling his fly balls.


I think this analysis supports the shift theory over the bat speed theory. He's still hitting the ball hard and pulling ground balls. Not sure why he'd be flying out to opposite field so much though. Perhaps he's not seeing the ball up as well so his bat speed is affected on only high pitches?
 
#713      
Nice post wpr.....lots of good background info also......I applaud Carp for a good work ethic and the path it took to become a major league player.......He had some really good years with the redbirds and I don't want anyone to think I didn't realize his history....

But , to the point of his bat slowing down....A slower bat can also mean more foul balls and even missed swings altogether........If the thought you posted about a slower bat leads to more balls put in play to the opposite side then we would have seen a much higher batting average and on base %......A slower ball and taking more pitches for strikes that he used to not do put him at a 0-2 or 1-2 count and then he would do as you said and hit it to the second baseman into shallow right field....He did still hit liners and make good contact , but had nothing to show for it...

I wish Carp well but it's time to move on and if the universal DH happens i sure hope he is NOT MO's choice.....

JMHO
Agree with you 100% on not bringing Carp back. If universal DH happens we have potentially better options in the minors. Yepez deserves a look at DH. He mashed 27 homers in 367 ABs in the minors (mostly AAA Memphis) this year with a .286/.383/.586 slash line. If that translates to the majors it would be a nice boost to our lineup at the DH.
 
#714      
I agree, Carp I love you buddy. Probably make it to the Cardinal Hall one day but no DH duties for you young man. (Compared to me.)
Pruman- I think a lot of his fouls were down the first base line. I'm not an expert but that seems to mean a quick bat. Perhaps he was compensating and getting out in front. He drove me crazy (my wife too.) by trying to take a pitch that was on the outer edge of the plate. When you are struggling an inch is too close to let the ump make the decision.

Nice job juiceman. Something else to add to the mix is what kind of pitches were they? Perhaps he fouled off the off speed pitches and hit a fly ball to center/left on the fast balls. I don't know.
I don't question the slower bat speed concept. It eventually happens to everyone even Tony Gwynn. I loved to watch Tony. He was a rare hitter. He could change his stance/approach on a pitch to pitch basis. That's extremely rare. As mentioned in an earlier post some guys can't change their approach their entire careers. (Dave Kingman anyone? But he was far from the only one.)

Anyone read Ron Luciano's book "The Umpire Strikes Back"? Well worth the read. In his book (One of his books) he told the story about Rod Carew. Rod rarely struck out. In one game he missed a couple of pitches. Luciano called him out on a bad pitch. After the call he knew it, the catcher and pitcher knew it. So did Carew. As Rod was walking back to the dugout Ron quietly apologized for getting the call wrong. Carew stopped and looked back at Luciano and told him that's ok. He only missed on pitch. Carew said that he missed the other two. Rambling story to say Carpenter never seemed to be at that point. He always seemed to want to argue the call or at least indignant over the call. He may well have been right but the calls are too close to take.
 
#715      
I can't tweet but Goold shared this:

#Mets reached out to #Cardinals late last week for permission to talk to GM Michael Girsch about the opening to run baseball ops in Queens, according two sources. He elected to stay with the Cardinals, a team source confirmed.
 
#718      
the Front Range
So, the early odds are out for next years teams. I can’t figure out how we are behind the Mets??
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#722      
Paducah, Ky

Cardinals cut ties with Carpenter and Martinez​

In the “what have you done lately” category, there was no “lately” for Matt Carpenter and Carlos Martinez.
Two of the four remaining members of the Cardinals’ most recent World Series team in 2013 were let go Thursday when neither’s contract option was picked up. Infielder Carpenter had been with the club since 2011 and oft-injured righthander Martinez had been with the Cardinals since 2013. The club declined an $18.5 million option on Carpenter’s contract for 2022 and a $17 million option for Martinez on next year’s contract and an $18 million option for 2023.
Instead, Carpenter, 35, will receive a $2 million buyout and Martinez, 30, is due $500,000 for each of the options not picked up. Carpenter was a three-time All-Star and twice finished in the top 10 of the Most Valuable Player balloting and Martinez was a two-time All-Star.

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I couldn't get the above post link to work for me so i decided to post this article.....sorry if redundant..........................................
 
#723      

Cardinals cut ties with Carpenter and Martinez​

In the “what have you done lately” category, there was no “lately” for Matt Carpenter and Carlos Martinez.
Two of the four remaining members of the Cardinals’ most recent World Series team in 2013 were let go Thursday when neither’s contract option was picked up. Infielder Carpenter had been with the club since 2011 and oft-injured righthander Martinez had been with the Cardinals since 2013. The club declined an $18.5 million option on Carpenter’s contract for 2022 and a $17 million option for Martinez on next year’s contract and an $18 million option for 2023.
Instead, Carpenter, 35, will receive a $2 million buyout and Martinez, 30, is due $500,000 for each of the options not picked up. Carpenter was a three-time All-Star and twice finished in the top 10 of the Most Valuable Player balloting and Martinez was a two-time All-Star.

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I couldn't get the above post link to work for me so i decided to post this article.....sorry if redundant..........................................
It doesn't work for me either. Thanks for bringing in another.
 
#725      
the Front Range
I like the move. He injects some fresh blood to the bench. We have to be the youngest managerial staff in baseball - Marmol is young but so is Skip.