St Louis Cardinals 2026

#951      
EmeraldCityIllini
Wetherholt, Walker, and Winn. The W's are fun.

Still waiting for this season to come back down to earth a bit, but hard not to be over the moon with this impressive young core.
 
#952      
wpr
the juiceman cometh said:
Wait, in what way does batting average take into account runners on base? If you get a single with the bases empty does your batting average not go up?
Click to expand...
I am not looking at the batting average nor the OBP. I am simply saying not all singles and hits are equal.
 
#953      
the juiceman cometh
I was responding to the use of batting average, which treats singles as a good outcome and treats walks as a non-event. The reason this is bad is that a walk is definitely a good outcome! It gives credit to a good outcome! Noot has the 3rd best OBP on the team this season, incidentally. (Herrera, another player the original poster had downplayed in the past based on BA, leads the team with a phenomenal .381).

Now, of course a walk is not the best outcome, which would be a home run, and isn't as good as a double or triple either. That's why SLG is also a good stat to look. Funny enough, Noot has the 5th best SLG on the team this season.

Even better is combining those two stats, in the form of OPS. Noot is 4th on the team in OPS this season.

Noot is a very good player who can't seem to get a break health-wise. I'd be perfectly fine trading him for a good return. I'd be perfectly fine trading him if we don't intend to compete next season. But if we want to be competitive in 2027 we need to shore up the OF and Noot, even if he's not dependable as an every day player, provides good value in the OF when healthy. If you can get half a season of games out of him that's probably better than what you can find for the same price in the free agent market. It might be an entirely different conversation if we had a ton of OF talent in the system but VS2 has been struggling, Church is not a starting OF on a contending team, and other than Baez we don't really have much relief coming through the pipeline. The biggest need we have is pitching, so if there's going to be any free agent dollars they should go there, which means that unless Noot can bring in at least a middle rotation arm we probably need to keep him as a cost-effective OF solution. And do we really think he could bring in a middle rotation arm with the current premium on pitching and his injury history?
 
#955      
MikeTisdale
ptgrd23 said:
This season is fools gold. Sell Noot, Jo Jo, Riley and Matthew L at the deadline. Should have traded Jo Jo last year. His value has dropped.

They are all journeymen

Noots 6th year in the majors he is a lifetime .243 hitter with limited power. He is a league average player.

Matthew L 5th year - lifetime 4.71 era and 21-30 record.
Click to expand...
Liberatore has no trade value and isn't making a bunch of money - he's not going anywhere. He's been relatively durable, just keep working with him over his next 3 arbitration years. They'll need innings next year anyway.

Noot has been on pace for a 4 fWAR season (literally double league average, won't get there because he was hurt to start the year), he's one of the better players on the team. I'm not sure what kind of value he would have mid-season, he's likely an off season trade (after they see how a full year of Baez ends up being in AAA). But I assume they're getting pretty close to wanting to compete this offseason, so doubt they trade him.

The 3 players I'm 100% certain they will trade at the deadline - JoJo, Riley and Dustin May. Always trade relievers, and the whole reason they signed Dustin May was to trade him - it'll be a miracle if he's still healthy come 8/3, better cash that lottery ticket quick.
 
#956      
wpr
the juiceman cometh said:
I was responding to the use of batting average, which treats singles as a good outcome and treats walks as a non-event. The reason this is bad is that a walk is definitely a good outcome! It gives credit to a good outcome! Noot has the 3rd best OBP on the team this season, incidentally. (Herrera, another player the original poster had downplayed in the past based on BA, leads the team with a phenomenal .381).

Now, of course a walk is not the best outcome, which would be a home run, and isn't as good as a double or triple either. That's why SLG is also a good stat to look. Funny enough, Noot has the 5th best SLG on the team this season.

Even better is combining those two stats, in the form of OPS. Noot is 4th on the team in OPS this season.

Noot is a very good player who can't seem to get a break health-wise. I'd be perfectly fine trading him for a good return. I'd be perfectly fine trading him if we don't intend to compete next season. But if we want to be competitive in 2027 we need to shore up the OF and Noot, even if he's not dependable as an every day player, provides good value in the OF when healthy. If you can get half a season of games out of him that's probably better than what you can find for the same price in the free agent market. It might be an entirely different conversation if we had a ton of OF talent in the system but VS2 has been struggling, Church is not a starting OF on a contending team, and other than Baez we don't really have much relief coming through the pipeline. The biggest need we have is pitching, so if there's going to be any free agent dollars they should go there, which means that unless Noot can bring in at least a middle rotation arm we probably need to keep him as a cost-effective OF solution. And do we really think he could bring in a middle rotation arm with the current premium on pitching and his injury history?
Click to expand...
I did not say a walk is a non-event. If you thought I did I apologize. In my playing days I lived off walks.
My comment was that not all walks and all singles are the same.
Leadoff batter who singles or walks is an equal outcome.
Bottom of the 9th, 2 outs, down by 1 with runners on second and third, a single is the better outcome. The OBP statistically will reflect them as having the same outcome but they are not equal.
I also have no criticism of Noot as a player.
 
#957      
ptgrd23
Anybody who played baseball knows their is a huge difference between someone who gets walks vs. somebody who gets a hit which can and usually drive in runs.
Lars is a nice player

Injury prone - Last 4 years - 108, 117, 109, 135 games played. Only played 32 of 95 games this year YTD
BA Last 4 years .228, .261, .244, .234
Not an RBI guy Last 4 years 40, 46, 45, 48
OK power SLG last 4 years .448. .418m .417, .361
Doesn't steal bases
Gets walks

This is his 6th year in MLB. Change of location might be beneficial to both Cards and Noot
 
#958      
gibb52
Noot is a decent guy to have on your team as a 4th OF/platoon type. He's not a starting corner OF and has proved it multiple times. Also injury prone. Likely expendable as soon as a better player comes along.
 
#959      
BillyBob1
If they are going to have the players with a microphone, you would think they could get it to work.
 
#960      
the juiceman cometh
gibb52 said:
Noot is a decent guy to have on your team as a 4th OF/platoon type. He's not a starting corner OF and has proved it multiple times. Also injury prone. Likely expendable as soon as a better player comes along.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, that's key. Who is the better player that's coming along though? At this point the Cards have a deficit of OF talent, not an excess.
 
#964      
Grandpa
Walker winning the home run derby netted him a million bucks prize money. That's 125% of his current salary.
Click to expand...
I like it when it makes a difference to the player. Schwarber or Harper don't NEED a million dollars.
 
#965      
pruman91
How about packaging Nootbaar , VS II and Saggese for either BP & SP arms or different prospects as I'm fully convinced that the 3 Cardinals I named are NOT going to be missed at all in the pursuit of success in the future........

I hope that the Cardinals call up Baez and install him as the full time LF'er .....................ASAP ..................JMHO................
 
#966      
MikeTisdale
pruman91 said:
How about packaging Nootbaar , VS II and Saggese for either BP & SP arms or different prospects as I'm fully convinced that the 3 Cardinals I named are NOT going to be missed at all in the pursuit of success in the future........

I hope that the Cardinals call up Baez and install him as the full time LF'er .....................ASAP ..................JMHO................
Click to expand...
Lol a package of those 3 players doesn't return anything better than just Nootbaar by himself.
 
#967      
the juiceman cometh
pruman91 said:
How about packaging Nootbaar , VS II and Saggese for either BP & SP arms or different prospects as I'm fully convinced that the 3 Cardinals I named are NOT going to be missed at all in the pursuit of success in the future........

I hope that the Cardinals call up Baez and install him as the full time LF'er .....................ASAP ..................JMHO................
Click to expand...
Sooooo.....quick question about this: when Church needs a day off, or if he gets injured, who is playing center field?
 
#969      
Se Il Illini
ptgrd23 said:
Anybody who played baseball knows their is a huge difference between someone who gets walks vs. somebody who gets a hit which can and usually drive in runs.
Lars is a nice player

Injury prone - Last 4 years - 108, 117, 109, 135 games played. Only played 32 of 95 games this year YTD
BA Last 4 years .228, .261, .244, .234
Not an RBI guy Last 4 years 40, 46, 45, 48
OK power SLG last 4 years .448. .418m .417, .361
Doesn't steal bases
Gets walks

This is his 6th year in MLB. Change of location might be beneficial to both Cards and Noot
Click to expand...
I agree with this take. Lars Nootbar has never had more than 48 RBIs in a single season. There is not enough pop in the bat for a corner outfielder.
 
#970      
ptgrd23
MikeTisdale said:
Noot has been on pace for a 4 fWAR season (literally double league average, won't get there because he was hurt to start the year), he's one of the better players on the team. I'm not sure what kind of value he would have mid-season, he's likely an off season trade (after they see how a full year of Baez ends up being in AAA). But I assume they're getting pretty close to wanting to compete this offseason, so doubt they trade him.
Click to expand...
1784156559220.png


I hope Noot has a great season. If he played every season like 2023 we would all be very happy. Unfortunately that season is the only good one out of six
 
#971      
Brosky
No doubt. Walker seems to have solved one OF spot but we have 2 more to go.
Click to expand...
Absolutely right. Those are power positions. hunting and pecking among borderline MLB players just won't cut it.
 
#973      
the juiceman cometh
whatahack said:
Usually Noot and either Torres or Velasquez plays left
Click to expand...
Yes, because Church plays center.

But who backs up Church at center if Noot and VSIII are not available because they've been traded for pitching depth? Velasquez certainly won't. He's a corner OF if you need him to be, but if we're being honest his natural position is DH. And Torres has played exactly 1 inning as CF in his entire career.

So we trade Noot and VSIII and then Church gets injured, winds up on DL, what do we do? What if this happens next season and our team is performing well, is in the middle of a playoff push? What's the plan? We could put Fermin in there, I guess, swith his robust 39 career innings at CF, but is that an upgrade from using Noot in that spot, either offensively or defensively? No, it's not!
 
#974      
ptgrd23
Noot is on 1 year $5M contract so its not bad.

However this team even if it makes the playoff is not going anywhere due to lack of pitching. If Noot is playing like a 4.0 WAR outfielder teams will be happy to send decent prospect to get immediate help. Holding on to Noot just to have him revert to his 5 year average or worse get injured again is not part of rebuild plan. We have major holes at catcher, 3rd base LF and RF plus weak pitching staff.

Trade Dustin, Jo Jo. Riley and Noot at deadline or earlier.
 
#975      
BillyBob1
ptgrd23 said:
Noot is on 1 year $5M contract so its not bad.

However this team even if it makes the playoff is not going anywhere due to lack of pitching. If Noot is playing like a 4.0 WAR outfielder teams will be happy to send decent prospect to get immediate help. Holding on to Noot just to have him revert to his 5 year average or worse get injured again is not part of rebuild plan. We have major holes at catcher, 3rd base LF and RF plus weak pitching staff.

Trade Dustin, Jo Jo. Riley and Noot at deadline or earlier.
Click to expand...
Major hole in RF?
 
Back