Even if it was illegal that’s not a defense
Terrence Shannon Jr. suspended
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I’m ready, willing, and able to believe anything you say. Let’s have it!
Even if they 100 percent believe that TSJ is innocent, the University is not going to say, "Our star player is facing a rape charge that carries a maximum 54-year prison sentence, but we checked it out (how?) and think it's all bogus, so he'll be starting tonight."
Short of a full dismissal of all charges prior to the end of the season, his final game as an Illini was in St. Louis last week.
This was a months-long investigation into a forcible rape allegation against a high-profile college athlete, which Shannons’s own attorney said he knew about and cooperated with. The police and DA have already interviewed everyone. If there was any physical evidence, they have reviewed it. They have the texts and DMs and social media data. If video exists, they acquired it.
How can I say I know this? Because that’s how a law enforcement investigation works. That’s what they do. They gather all the information they can. Then they make a decision whether to bring charges. Which they did here. The DA clearly thinks they have enough to prove the rape charge in court beyond a reasonable doubt. In the end, they might be wrong about that. But I can assure you what they didn’t do. They didn’t sit on an accusation for three months, and then drop a serious felony rape charge, and then say “hey now let’s go look into this and interview people and look for evidence and see if we can actually prove this case or not.”
This isn’t like a homicide where you have a dead body and a suspect standing over it where the police have to make the arrest on the spot and then work backwards to figure out what happened.
And yes I would imagine Shannon has a defense to the allegation—perhaps consent or perhaps something else—and that defense might be relatively strong or relatively weak. But a person who has been accused of a crime arguing that he didn’t do it and has been wrongfully accused isn’t the legal game-changer that some of you seem to be hoping. Defendants have defenses. The police and DA don’t believe the defenses and are confident they can prove guilt. That’s the whole point of criminal litigation. Which is the stage this is at now.
How can I say I know this? Because that’s how a law enforcement investigation works. That’s what they do. They gather all the information they can. Then they make a decision whether to bring charges. Which they did here. The DA clearly thinks they have enough to prove the rape charge in court beyond a reasonable doubt. In the end, they might be wrong about that. But I can assure you what they didn’t do. They didn’t sit on an accusation for three months, and then drop a serious felony rape charge, and then say “hey now let’s go look into this and interview people and look for evidence and see if we can actually prove this case or not.”
This isn’t like a homicide where you have a dead body and a suspect standing over it where the police have to make the arrest on the spot and then work backwards to figure out what happened.
And yes I would imagine Shannon has a defense to the allegation—perhaps consent or perhaps something else—and that defense might be relatively strong or relatively weak. But a person who has been accused of a crime arguing that he didn’t do it and has been wrongfully accused isn’t the legal game-changer that some of you seem to be hoping. Defendants have defenses. The police and DA don’t believe the defenses and are confident they can prove guilt. That’s the whole point of criminal litigation. Which is the stage this is at now.
Looks like Deron Williams
It’s DyShawn Hobson. Our Graduate Assistant.
Due to my line of work, I am well aware that there are domestic battery cases in which there is zero evidence, only a complaint/accusation. So, I would not just assume there is this mountain of physical evidence that has been collected either. There are reasons for a DA to pursue a case other than they think they can actually win it.
Tacomallini
- Washington State
probably assuming the roles of wingmen, more than chaperoning nuns, I would imagine
chrisRunner7
- Spokane, WA
What I want to know:
1. When is his next court date
2. Will be there be some kind of "Statement of Facts" or "Affidavit of Facts" or something filed with the court soon to substantiate the charges, and then we can all see what kind of case this is actually turning out to be
3. Is a grand jury going to convene, or will there be a preliminary hearing where some evidence will be discussed prior to any trial unless Terrance waives it
From a google search, it looks like Douglas County, KS does preliminary hearings on felony cases.
1. When is his next court date
2. Will be there be some kind of "Statement of Facts" or "Affidavit of Facts" or something filed with the court soon to substantiate the charges, and then we can all see what kind of case this is actually turning out to be
3. Is a grand jury going to convene, or will there be a preliminary hearing where some evidence will be discussed prior to any trial unless Terrance waives it
From a google search, it looks like Douglas County, KS does preliminary hearings on felony cases.
Until we have any information as to what actually happened I am just going with innocent until proven guilty - if something bad did happen, I feel for the victim and any punishment delt out is fine. If its some grey area stuff or a case of nothing bad happened, Shannon will still be seen in a bad light - because of just being charged and having a warrant issued.
I assume Josh’s press conference will be aired on BTN..?
To be honest, while I agree in principle, especially with regards to communication, I'm not so sure this can avoid "gray area" situations. There's just so much that goes into it, and even if there is enthusiastic consent at the beginning of activities, that doesn't mean that once things start commencing one of the people won't feel differently. And with how the consent laws are currently written in some states, if a person feels that any specific act taken was one they didn’t feel comfortable with, even it's entirely after the fact, it could be considered non-consent. And that’s not even considering when you add things like alcohol into the equation.
So while I know this sounds incredibly puritanical, I honestly think the only way to avoid this type of situation is not only having constant open communication, but also being in a strong caring relationship with mutual respect. And even then, that still won't necessarily avoid 100% of situations. And while I don't have issues with people who decide to have one night stands or hookups, or have say alcohol before engaging in sexual acts, even when intentions are pure, I think doing any of those things does carry a much higher inherent risk of it resulting in nonconsensual activity. I'm just not sure there's much of any way to avoid it fully other than not engaging.
And as crazy as it sounds, I almost think formal written/video consent including state of mind and maybe even a secure data app that records, uploads and stores unedited audio of the event that can only be accessed by police warrant might be what is actually needed. It seems extreme, but sadly when it comes to sexual assault I think it's necessary to help protect possible victims as well as the wrongfully accused and it also makes the interrogation process more streamlined and less intrusive and hurtful to a victim.
So, weird factoid about myself… I was a juror on not one, but two very major crimes cases (including the Curt Lovelace murder trial in Springfield).
I will tell you right now that what the DA/state/etc thinks is good evidence… is often times not. I have twice seen the state bring charges against a person where the evidence was sketchy at best.
I have to imagine in a situation like this, evidence is even less than that.
So yeah...Josh and Brad have known about this since September and allowed TJ to play and be around the team/Illini Athletics. Do you really think they would stake their entire reputation solely based on believing TJ's side of the story? They have a lot more evidence pointing to his innocence than is being let out right now.
What would happen to JW & Brad's legacy if TJ gets convicted of the allegations thrown his way and they knowingly downplayed it?
I will let you ponder on that one.
Just a horrible situation all around right now...
What would happen to JW & Brad's legacy if TJ gets convicted of the allegations thrown his way and they knowingly downplayed it?
I will let you ponder on that one.
Just a horrible situation all around right now...
Was on a flight to Vegas when this news broke. I almost always sleep on any flight longer than an hour so I saw it in a half awake state and literally shut my phone down and hoped to wake up to this being a dream. When I woke up….
1). It wasn’t a dream
2) I immediately thought about my million dollar idea that I let people talk me out of for a phone app to record consent for people.
1). It wasn’t a dream
2) I immediately thought about my million dollar idea that I let people talk me out of for a phone app to record consent for people.
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We are getting into theoretical situations here, which is silly.
That said, separate from the TSJ situation, being in an illegal situation is relevant for no other reason than it brings character and credibility into question
If liquor was involved, now character and believability is called into question.
I'm guessing that neither party wants this to go any longer than it has to. If this got pulled into court, all of this would get brought up. It's the defense attorney's job to smear. Her parents won't want that any more that TSJs want this.
Any lawyer(or personal with common sense) understands that it's TSJ in a vulnerable spot right now. He's a public figure that I'm sure wants an immediate resolution to this because he wants to resume his playing career. If he decides that he's going to ride this out, he's no longer vulnerable. She is.
Ultimately, these are two kids that are caught in a mess that nobody wants to be a part of and now that it's gone public....there are only three easy exits. He gives in, she gives in or they come to an agreement and let the lawyers handle the PR. I'm guessing that latter ends up occurring, but probably not for a while.
I would assume no
I said sort of the same thing on the previous page of this thread. As far as evidence goes, maybe they have tons of stuff, maybe they have nothing. Sometimes a DA has other fish to fry than just winning the case. Maybe they want to be viewed as being tough on these types of cases, maybe the case is one that gets their name national news stories, maybe something else. I've seen men go through domestic battery trials and the literal only thing the DA has is a complaint. There was one case where when the state introduced photo evidence, that the photo was of an arm with no marks on it. The defense said "Yeah sure! Absolutely, please do include this photograph that shows evidence of no physical harm".
Understood. Not to get too graphic but I was referring to penetration which is needed for rape to occur. I don't think you can rape someone through their clothes.
Fondle, yes.
I also heard she jay walked heading into the bar, this whole case might get thrown out
One thing I noticed they is kind of conflicting is i am seeing posted that one witness is a nurse (don't know if this accurate), and what involvement would a nurse have if this is only about fingering? Would they administer a rapid kit for that? I wouldn't think so. I don't know what to make of it, just doesn't add up
IlliniKat91
- Chicago, IL
Any kind of touching of the female sex organ (their words) can be counted as penetration.
Also, it takes nothing to unzip a pair of shorts for access on either gender. Clothing didn't have to come all the way off.
It would do absolutely nothing to their legacy.
Again, we can only assume they were aware of an accusation and knew only as much as TSJ wanted them to. What should they have done?
Imagine if all it took to get someone fired from their job was to simply accuse them of something illegal.
What time is the press conference?
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