MustangWally
- Mayfield
Also happening in Duluth and Toronto.
The mascot debate
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band camp
- STL City
Not bad at all.
Govoner Vaugn Fan
- New Orleans
I suppose Grangers is better than ButkussersOr, we could be the Grangers (it's an actual word meaning farmer) with a gray ghost as a mascot.
Fighting Illini will always be the best, though.
How does this work for the women’s teams? I should add I hate the suffix “ette” or the name “Lady…”
It’s been 15 years. No one is coming for the Fighting Illini nickname. We’ll still be the Illini and a stuffed, vaguely Kingfisher-looking bird thing will be in the Old Dominion and Quicken Loans commercials with all the other mascots. ESPN can run a cutesy Sports Center commercial with the old mascots showing the new guy the ropes. Life will go on.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
I'd like to see somebody mock up a "Blocky the I" constume and it could roam around the stadium as an unofficial mascot, like the Stanford Tree.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I vote for the one on the right. The other one just looks like the chief in a doughboy costume.New traditions are definitely in order. I can picture an honoring of an active or retired military service person, a song sung or created in honor of fighting illini military members at halftime, and even supporting a charitable organization for wounded warriors in Illinois (maybe a 50/50 raffle or something).
Exactly. Say what you want about Florida State and the use of the Seminoles/Chief Osceola, but can anyone deny that the Seminole Tribe benefits financially from Florida State right now? Let's walk the walk as far as embracing or history as honoring the armed forces (specifically those in Illinois) and establish an identity as a school with an especially strong and meaningful support of them. It goes without saying it's a morally good thing to do to support these types of things, but let's be honest ... it's also a great PR move for the U of I, it would go a long way toward giving us a very-much-missing identity (beyond "Orange and Blue 'Block I' Team From Champaign-Urbana") and it wouldn't be forced at all ... we literally erected a gorgeous stadium as a very genuine monument to fallen Illinoisans. Other than fear that this would somehow be offensive, I do not understand at all why we have not jumped head-first into this type of imagery ... and I actually can't understand how a reasonable person could be offended by it, either, so I LITERALLY don't understand it!
*** Again, HUGE emphasis on this being way more like Chief Illiniwek than Herky the Hawkeye ... avoid caricatures and keep things meaningful/respectful. ***
Just my humble opinion here, but I think what people find concerning is how seemingly fast "ideologically average" people (i.e., falling under your "overwhelming majority" group) go along with trends that are driven by a very extreme view. They might be trends most come to recognize as good (like the recognition and acceptance of same-sex couples), but they might not ... we won't know until years down the line, and like you said - the majority is not always correct, even if it has been a building trend for decades.
Yes, almost everyone here can agree that banning "Chief" is incredibly dumb or at the very least overboard ... but the issue is if half of us (or whatever) could be convinced that it's a good idea in ten years because the people most adamantly opposed to it have other bad qualities (i.e., being a racist or whatever). It will N-E-V-E-R be a good idea, haha, but I guarantee the support for it - however small - WILL increase over time. And that doesn't make any sense, it shouldn't happen and yes - it's somewhat alarming that it's easy for me to envision this, even if it's not like I lose sleep over it or anything. There are obviously bigger fish to fry as far as society is concerned, but (1) this topic came up in a thread loosely related to this type of thing and (2) that is actually a great argument for why these more extreme activists should stop channeling their energy in this direction in the first place.
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
why settle on one mascot? let's have a bunch. rotate 'em and for very special events, have a horde.
GrayGhost77
- Centennial, CO
Alma Otter, Blocky the I, Doughey the Doughboy, and Kingston the Kingfisher can all have a party! (Or a fight to the death. "There can be only one.")
As I recall this one got some traction so may be what the OP was referencing: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/...-to-remove-the-word-chief-from-key-job-titles
The majority isn't always right, except when it is. That's how it reads for me in your back-to-back posts. Apologies if you find that harsh.
I'm for no mascot.
What I said was, "Only one instance that I could find where they actually did remove the word "chief"". As far as I could determine, in Duluth the mayor suggested to remove the designation "chief" but as far as I could see it did not happen and she was derided for suggesting it. I did find the Toronto once I added that word to my search but, evidently they have a committee (school board) that discusses these things and it has been a topic of discussion for many years. It was not on some spur of the moment decision. Here are a couple of quotes from a newspaper article about it.
"The Truth and Reconciliation Commission spent years documenting the long-standing impacts of Canada’s residential school system and made many recommendations to further reconciliation with Indigenous people."
"“It may not have originated as an Indigenous word, but the fact is that it is used as a slur in some cases, or in a negative way to describe Indigenous people,” he said in an interview Wednesday. “With that in mind, as it has become a slur in some cases, that’s the decision the administration has made to be proactive on that.”
So again, even at three instances, one was a response from concerned indigenous people and the other was after at least some time of study, it is hardly a wave of wokeism (sp?).
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So are you saying we can have a “Chief” as long as it’s not a Native American Chief? Maybe like a Fire Chief?
Well, I for one do not agree that banning the chief is incredibly dumb and from some of the posts would seem to indicate I am not alone albeit probably in the minority. I would be very disappointed if I was indeed the only one who thinks it was a good idea. I won't go into why as I think Dan will delete that as being too political.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Sorry - I put "Chief" in quotation marks to try to refer to the word itself, as in the story from San Francisco. While I absolutely do not agree with the removal of Chief Illiniwek, I try to avoid that topic on these boards ... very little point getting into it.
MustangWally
- Mayfield
I missed the part where I said there was a "wave of wokeism" against the word "chief". You should read what I wrote a little more carefully. It was factually true.
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I am 100% all down for this.
It’s supposed to be fun. So make it goofily and gloriously fun.
Everybody on both sides of the Chief thing are taking things way too seriously and I want to see the Easter Bunny flying wedge tackle Teddy Roosevelt type of fun.
Maybe it should be organic to the respective cheering section for each team. Blocky the I (who is the best imo…especially with that monocle) for Block I and Krushy the Kan (or whatever) for Orange Krush.
So on and so forth.
Keep it light. I feel like the problem with some of these ideas is they have the feel of trying to create a new symbol when we don’t need a new symbol.
Instead, if all we want is a goofy sideline mascot, let the student sections run with it.
So on and so forth.
Keep it light. I feel like the problem with some of these ideas is they have the feel of trying to create a new symbol when we don’t need a new symbol.
Instead, if all we want is a goofy sideline mascot, let the student sections run with it.
An, didn’t read that carefully enough the first time. My mistake and my apologies
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Right. If we're gonna do this thing (mascot), why not take it to another level? Like Pokeman or something. Make it hilariously silly. That's the ticket.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I again want to reiterate that I am surprised it's not more popular to try to "thread the needle" between new traditions and a corny mascot. The latter will be absolutely loathed by at least 50% of the fanbase, with another 25% having absolutely no feeling for it and another 25% forcing themselves to like it to make a point, lol. The diehard Chief crowd (of which I'm barely not a part) will never support another "mascot"/symbol, and that is totally understandable! And the anti-Chief crowd would never tolerate the Chief's return ... also somewhat understandable, and (more importantly) it's kind of a done deal at this point.
Thus, it seems like the path that would make the most happy is to do something that doesn't seem it comes out of nowhere (like a "Kingfisher" or some other totally random, joke-level thing) but rather has the same "feel" as the Chief (i.e., different than a true mascot and still relevant to past Illinois traditions). I totally respect that this isn't everyone's opinion, but to me ... that is so obviously some sort of increase in our attachment World War I, Illinois veterans, the true meaning of Memorial Stadium, etc. I just think it's a ridiculously easy fix, and the more I ponder it, the more surprised I am that absolutely no one in the DIA is tried to lean into this in the years since 2007 at all ... like, literally for no other reason than the selfish monetary value it might provide the U of I down the line if young Illinoisans from birth associate the "Fighting Illini" with a respect and reverence for our armed forces.
I don't know, maybe growing up with the Chief (I just turned 31, so kind of "in the middle" of this generational change) made me irrationally biased toward mascots, but I think they are so unbelievably dumb and not cool at all. As an example, even though USC's Trojan "mascot" is not really made to be as cool as he could be, it's infinitely cooler than the blow-up Spartan bodybuilder that Michigan State trots out there to jump around like an idiot. I just do not get the appeal of a "Herky the Hawkeye" or "Bucky the Badger" figure whatsoever, and I actually think schools like Michigan, Indiana and Illinois that largely don't bother with it have the right idea, lol. A logo is a totally different story, though.
Thus, it seems like the path that would make the most happy is to do something that doesn't seem it comes out of nowhere (like a "Kingfisher" or some other totally random, joke-level thing) but rather has the same "feel" as the Chief (i.e., different than a true mascot and still relevant to past Illinois traditions). I totally respect that this isn't everyone's opinion, but to me ... that is so obviously some sort of increase in our attachment World War I, Illinois veterans, the true meaning of Memorial Stadium, etc. I just think it's a ridiculously easy fix, and the more I ponder it, the more surprised I am that absolutely no one in the DIA is tried to lean into this in the years since 2007 at all ... like, literally for no other reason than the selfish monetary value it might provide the U of I down the line if young Illinoisans from birth associate the "Fighting Illini" with a respect and reverence for our armed forces.
I don't know, maybe growing up with the Chief (I just turned 31, so kind of "in the middle" of this generational change) made me irrationally biased toward mascots, but I think they are so unbelievably dumb and not cool at all. As an example, even though USC's Trojan "mascot" is not really made to be as cool as he could be, it's infinitely cooler than the blow-up Spartan bodybuilder that Michigan State trots out there to jump around like an idiot. I just do not get the appeal of a "Herky the Hawkeye" or "Bucky the Badger" figure whatsoever, and I actually think schools like Michigan, Indiana and Illinois that largely don't bother with it have the right idea, lol. A logo is a totally different story, though.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Many trends have gone gone in one direction for the past 50 years. That indicates nothing about whether they have value or are worth following.
We live in a culture that encourages a de minimus attention span and no historical perspective. Neither are virtuous.
pruman91
- Paducah, Ky
I feel your pain , kemo-sabe..............................I really really do..............................
Govoner Vaugn Fan
- New Orleans
Back in the '50s, when I was a youngun', my Dad liked watching UofI basketball. I think it was on WILL (pbs) back then, and sometimes on WCIA. I remember asking my Dad why the Illini had an Indian Chief dance at halfime.? After all, I thought, weren't all the Indians out West? (I got that from all the westerns on TV back then).
My Dad, who was a High School Principal and had a lot books, went to the big bookcase and pulled out book on the history of Illinois, and pointed out several chapters on tribes native to the state.
That got my interest, and I read all I could from books at the local library about the Black Hawk war, the story of Starved Rock, the pre-Columbian history of Dixon Mounds and, of course Cahokia mounds. I later listened to my grandfather's story of playing on the Mounds on the St Louis side of the river, where he was raised, before they were leveled for development in the 1890's. I also accumulated a nice arrowhead and axe head collection. Later on, as a teacher I enjoyed telling students about native history of Illinois (of which they usually knew nothing) Often they would connect the fact that Illinois had a rich native American history with Chief Illiniwek and I said it was a tradition meant to honor our native predecessors and should be treated with reverence. I hope at least a few of them retained some tidbits of knowledge of those honored people of the past.
So, no, I do not think the Chief should have been silenced or his dance halted. I hate that many people do not understand the difference between a 'mascot', and a revered symbol of those who came before us.
My Dad, who was a High School Principal and had a lot books, went to the big bookcase and pulled out book on the history of Illinois, and pointed out several chapters on tribes native to the state.
That got my interest, and I read all I could from books at the local library about the Black Hawk war, the story of Starved Rock, the pre-Columbian history of Dixon Mounds and, of course Cahokia mounds. I later listened to my grandfather's story of playing on the Mounds on the St Louis side of the river, where he was raised, before they were leveled for development in the 1890's. I also accumulated a nice arrowhead and axe head collection. Later on, as a teacher I enjoyed telling students about native history of Illinois (of which they usually knew nothing) Often they would connect the fact that Illinois had a rich native American history with Chief Illiniwek and I said it was a tradition meant to honor our native predecessors and should be treated with reverence. I hope at least a few of them retained some tidbits of knowledge of those honored people of the past.
So, no, I do not think the Chief should have been silenced or his dance halted. I hate that many people do not understand the difference between a 'mascot', and a revered symbol of those who came before us.
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