TSJ Thread

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#201      
I’m saying it. This “me too” movement has gone too far. Unfortunately I’ve seen this happen to clients of mine and have been called to the stands because of nonsense like this. The accusers have complete immunity.
No. #MeToo didn’t go far enough. Too many people in positions of power are still allowed to get away with horrific behavior towards women.

That being said, there should be more repercussions towards people who make false accusations with bad intentions.
 
#202      
Two problems with your argument, if it can be called an argument:

1. No doubt there are instances of wrongful prosecutions. District attorneys and prosecutors are just human beings, with all positive and negative traits of all human beings. But wrongful prosecutions are the extreme minority. And there are checks and balances in the system - defense counsel, judges, juries, and appeals. Not to mention the high burden of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Further, most states attorneys are elected, providing further protection to the public. In addition there is also a free press, an open legal system and advocacy groups. But in this case, aside from the incredibly unreliable and unverified information you've gleaned from the internet, you have no intelligent, credible or substantiated evidence on which to base your opinion.

2. Respectfully, you only care about this case, and only believe Terrence Shannon Jr is being set-up because it hurts Illinois basketball. Be honest. You don't care about reforming prosecutorial abuse. You aren't leading an advocacy group for the wrongly accused. Just admit this is about the best player since Ayo Dosunmu and our chances to go deep in March. It sucks because this really hurts our basketball program. It hurts our season, which hurts recruiting. It hurts our image as a stand up program. You want Shannon on the court because he wins games and so you only don't care what happened in that bar in Kansas. It is convenient and self serving to believe the accuser is lying or seeking financial compensation. It is convenient and self serving to believe the DA in Douglas County is corrupt.
You might want to pump the brakes on point #2.
 
#203      
Probably wishful thinking (I'm in a Covid dreamscape), but maybe there's a chance that they could me back and say something like, "we reiterate that we have zero tolerance for sexual misconduct, and anyone who is even charged with it will be punished. But the punishment will fit the circumstances, and not all allegations will result in permanent suspension/dismissal. While the incident here is horrible and has been classified as "rape," we have seen no contention of even indecent exposure, and our punishment, for now, will fit what we know about the incident, and reflect that the conduct that has been alleged is shocking and will not be tolerated. We will reconsider the punishment and will impose additional punishment if and when we receive credible evidence that there was more to the incident than we know now."
 
#204      
Probably wishful thinking (I'm in a Covid dreamscape), but maybe there's a chance that they could me back and say something like, "we reiterate that we have zero tolerance for sexual misconduct, and anyone who is even charged with it will be punished. But the punishment will fit the circumstances, and not all allegations will result in permanent suspension/dismissal. While the incident here is horrible and has been classified as "rape," we have seen no contention of even indecent exposure, and our punishment, for now, will fit what we know about the incident, and reflect that the conduct that has been alleged is shocking and will not be tolerated. We will reconsider the punishment and will impose additional punishment if and when we receive credible evidence that there was more to the incident than we know now."
This is worse fan fiction than Twilight.

I see them taking a gamble in him being innocent or at least no evidence or waiting for trial.
 
#205      
Just curious, but JW went out of his way multiple times to state the separation of the university, DIA, and the team from the situation but he also said it was people associated with the University who drove TSJ to Kansas and back. Does that seem odd? I wouldn't think the University would transport a non-athlete student to another state to face charges.
Yes, it seemed odd to me that the University transported him to/from Kansas for his arrest. That is the opposite of distancing itself from the situation.
 
#206      
No. #MeToo didn’t go far enough. Too many people in positions of power are still allowed to get away with horrific behavior towards women.

That being said, there should be more repercussions towards people who make false accusations with bad intentions.
I’m an child/adolescent psychologist and I understand this is completely anecdotal but I’ve seen more false accusations by about a factor of 3:1. Go ahead and crucify me. I’m telling you my observation working decades in the field. Someone needs to go to bat for these young men and I’ll gladly do it even in the face of the mob.
 
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#207      
I despise sexual assault. I do not know what happened that night in kansas. It sounds like the bits of what seems to be "confirmed" info here is that there was possibly criminally inappropriate touching up to forcefully inappropriate touching in a bar. Forcefully touching seems hard for me to believe in a crowded bar but who am i and who cares my thoughts. Right now based on extremely limited and possibly inaccurate info i find it crazy to charge him with felony rape with a minimum of roughly 12 years. I wonder if my love of the illini feeds that belief but i really don't think it does. It may lead me to hammer the innocent until proven guilty drum but that seems more of a indictment to times i react to situations where i don't care about the accused. I truly hope the correct form of justice gets levied in the quickest fashion possible. And my illini fandom just hopes my image of TSJ was not wrong all along
 
#209      
Question and sorry if it sounds like a dumb one. If Sutter does not have a license to practice law in Kansas. how does he defend TSJ?
Does he know someone to take the case, can he be there. Just asking because I do not know.
 
#211      
Police reports and other investigative material are not public records. Nobody outside law enforcement sees them until they are provided to the defense through the discovery process.

You can make a Freedom of Information Law request for police reports and such, but only after the prosecution is complete. There is a FOIA/FOIL exemption for materials that relate to an ongoing investigation or active prosecution. That is if the defendant is convicted, If the defendant is acquitted or the case is dismissed, those materials will be sealed by the court.

But even then, I think every state including Kansas has privacy laws for victims of sex crimes that designate those materials as confidential.

What is a public record are documents that are filed in court, like a felony complaint, as here. Those documents are typically procedural in nature and do not say very much.
 
#212      
Two problems with your argument, if it can be called an argument:

1. No doubt there are instances of wrongful prosecutions. District attorneys and prosecutors are just human beings, with all positive and negative traits of all human beings. But wrongful prosecutions are the extreme minority. And there are checks and balances in the system - defense counsel, judges, juries, and appeals. Not to mention the high burden of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Further, most states attorneys are elected, providing further protection to the public. In addition there is also a free press, an open legal system and advocacy groups. But in this case, aside from the incredibly unreliable and unverified information you've gleaned from the internet, you have no intelligent, credible or substantiated evidence on which to base your opinion.

2. Respectfully, you only care about this case, and only believe Terrence Shannon Jr is being set-up because it hurts Illinois basketball. Be honest. You don't care about reforming prosecutorial abuse. You aren't leading an advocacy group for the wrongly accused. Just admit this is about the best player since Ayo Dosunmu and our chances to go deep in March. It sucks because this really hurts our basketball program. It hurts our season, which hurts recruiting. It hurts our image as a stand up program. You want Shannon on the court because he wins games and so you only don't care what happened in that bar in Kansas. It is convenient and self serving to believe the accuser is lying or seeking financial compensation. It is convenient and self serving to believe the DA in Douglas County is corrupt.
Earth to JW--- you seem to be quite the finger pointer. Get a grip and don't fall off your 10' tall soapbox.
 
#214      
IMO the base topic is sad at all levels but to speculate about a rape case is not appropriate. It’s not like my stupid basketball predictions which are just for fun and completely meaningless. These accusations deal directly with multiple peoples livelihoods and emotional and mental states. Please show compassion and integrity and stay away from speculating on a case that is literally none of our business. It is understandable to be curious about the facts but it is very callous to make uninformed predictions or accusations. People read what is written here please don’t let what you write here cause someone else harm.
 
#215      

Loyalillini10

Urbana, IL
I said this in a response to some idiot's YouTube video and I'll say it here. I want TJ to be innocent, but I have no idea on any facts about the case--none of us do. There is so much harmful conjecture being thrown around and it's gross. We do not know anything about the accuser and saying things like, "she is greedy or she regrets it now or she is lying on him, " is just plain wrong to say when we don't know anything. I have even seen sh!t as disgusting as,"girls just be wanting money." It is absolutely okay to hope for TJ's innocence AND refrain from making these kinds of comments about the accuser and women in general. These kinds of comments are exactly why so many rape victims never come forward.

This is absolutely hard on our basketball program, but we have to step back from that a little (and I admit that is tough for me). This is much harder on two families right now and will be for some time. I know it isn't going to happen but it would be nice to refrain from any professions of innocence or guilt until more FACTS come to light.
 
#221      

redwingillini11

White and Sixth
North Aurora
I know a lot of people here thought I was insane for what I was saying yesterday and the concern I had for what the athletic department had done, including scoff from our beloved insiders. I do not for one minute regret the doubt and concern I had. A situation this serious does not deserve all benefit of the doubt. I needed to hear the exact right things from the athletic department to feel ok with their part in this situation.

And tonight I heard just about everything I wanted to hear. Josh did a fantastic job. The way he laid out his process, what he had access to, what he didn’t have access to, what he knew, when he knew it, what he was allowed to do vs what he was limited from doing, it was a very solid job. More than anything I wanted to know to what extent they tried to get to the bottom of things since this issue first arose. It is clear they had a sound process and they went through it to the extent that they could given the information they had. That’s what I wanted to hear. Note, that is not what some here were saying, implying he had no obligation to do anything until it became official: “well there was no criminal charge, so what was he supposed to do?” Clearly the university had a more proactive approach than that, and that’s what I wanted to hear.

Should I have trusted him more? Well he’s never given us reason to doubt him. I still maintain I was right to demand answers given the grave circumstances. But he knocked it out of the park and proved why he is the greatest thing to happen to the university in my lifetime.

As for TJ, the little information that has come out in the last 24 hours about what happened seem to really paint a better picture for him than what the headline of being charged with rape implies. I am sure the true events most likely lie in the gray area spectrum that make these situations impossible to deal with. But it sure sounds like this is much closer to a consensual act that fell out in a bad way after the fact, rather than the other end of the spectrum where truly heinous things occur. I have a great amount of optimism that he is vindicated. I hope he is. Of course, if he did do something wrong, I solemnly hope he faces the consequences. But hopefully this is something that he can prove his innocence and recover his life.

As for basketball, I am probably too hopeful that the 3 person panel reinstated him. They are probably too cautious to do so. But if they do, it should be because they have plenty of reason to believe he is innocent. If that’s the case I will very much cheer him on throughout the rest of the season and hope our collective faith in him is proven to not be in vain. I also hope the team can find a way to rally together and still be the best team they can be. The way this has tainted my enjoyment of the season cannot compare to what his teammates must be feeling.

Go Illini.
 
#222      
Formally charging TSJ prompted the suspension. What would actually be presented within 48 hrs of that to have a panel reinstate him unless the panel thought he should not have been suspended from the start?

If they confirm the suspension then it cannot be overturned unless they reconvene with presumably new info?

Then, if there is a conclusion in the legal handling then JW decides?

Or does the panel just decide if the suspension was inacted appropriately within 48 hrs and then JW decides when it is over after that?
 
#223      
Everything’s gonna be alright
I get that. But that doesn't answer my question. Can Sutter sit with TSJ during the trial, or do they have to have someone else?

Not trying to be difficult. Just curious about how it works.
 
#224      
 
#225      

redwingillini11

White and Sixth
North Aurora
Question and sorry if it sounds like a dumb one. If Sutter does not have a license to practice law in Kansas. how does he defend TSJ?
Does he know someone to take the case, can he be there. Just asking because I do not know.
Out of state lawyers are often granted “pro hac vice” status allowing you to practice law in another state on a limited basis, specifically in a particular case. But what others have said is most likely true: if you are being represented by an out of state lawyer, you generally also need local counsel to represent you as well, and it shouldn’t be surprising if Kansas counsel takes the lead over Sutter in representing Shannon during these proceedings. But there is no reason why Sutter shouldn’t be allowed to be in his inner circle and perhaps also counsel of record.
 
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