TSJ Thread

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#152      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
mJSGonM.gif
 
#153      

mrh vet

M
mrh vet
oskeewowwowboomtime said:
Where is the probable cause affidavit District Attorney Valdez??? Obviously, the identity of the alleged victim can be redacted (as it should be at this point) but in contrast TSJ can be tried, convicted and irrevocably scarred for life in the court of public opinion no matter what the ultimate outcome is of the criminal proceedings. Shouldn't part of the presumption of innocence be for not only TSJ but also for the public to at least know what the sworn factual basis is behind felony charge against TSJ given that the incident allegedly took place last September???
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Well DA Valdez has had her day in court. Three actually. No decision yet. There is no formal timeline for a decision. However her hearing was in open court so the evidence was public. Some pretty eye opening information. Her attorney did not bother to argue she was not guilty. His argument was a one year suspension was too harsh a sanction
 
#156      

Frank

Frank
Frank
@illini0440 @Indy Illini Fan @LvilleILL @DB11Headband @sharpshot16

I hope y'all know that showing up here once a day and posting something like "Things happening 👀 stay tuned"

...or gifs like

Triple H Yes GIF by WWE


will ease about 60% of the daily anxiety on this board.

Half of the remaining anxiety ain't going anywhere, for good reason, and the other half is just wayyy off in candyland (or whatever the dystopia version of candyland is).
 
#157      

nichi

N
nichi
Illinoise said:
If you think that if the panel puts the odds that he is guilty of these charges at 49% that they should send him back on the court that is fine. I am telling you it is not going to happen.

Is that what you would want to happen?

I think based on everything we have heard there is good reason to be skeptical and keep an open mind. You can not send a player back on the court with this hanging over his head though. For the best interest of the player, the accuser and the U of I this needs to resolved legally. Charges need to be dropped or a plea deal reached. I will eat my words if I am wrong but I can’t see it.
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Your opinion that the panel would not take the prescribed action if they found it "more likely than not" he is innocent of the charges is duly noted.

I don't know what their finding of fact will be. I do hope they have the guts to act on it.

The preferred outcome would obviously be the charges are dropped or dismissed in KS.
 
#158      

…INI

…
…INI
Taking the position that TJS stays on scholarship and can use the facilities improving his skills but can’t play basketball with the team seems very arbitrary to me. Since he’s been charged with a serious crime and is “guilty until proven innocent” why not kick him out of school? Although, to my knowledge the media and general public have not reacted negatively to TJS staying in school and using the facilities. Why would the media reaction be so much worse if he’s playing basketball? Is it because he is in front of a crowd and the crowd might react badly? Is it because he shouldn’t have fun playing basketball until he is proven innocent? (He can do everything else though). What makes playing basketball so much different than all the other privileges he continues to have while being in “charged” status? Why is the line drawn there? I must not get it.
 
#159      

Illinoise

Illinoise
Illinoise
nichi said:
Your opinion that the panel would not take the prescribed action if they found it "more likely than not" he is innocent of the charges is duly noted.

I don't know what their finding of fact will be. I do hope they have the guts to act on it.

The preferred outcome would obviously be the charges are dropped or dismissed in KS.
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I feel that the severity of the charges warrants letting the legal process play out. Whatever information the panel has access to, so do the lawyers for TSJ. If there is clear evidence that the charges are false or over reaching, then TSJ’s attorneys need to press the DA. If this information exists they will leak it before too long, like any good defense attorney would.

If this is a false allegation of course we all want justice to be done. That may very well involve legal action against those who charged him and those who accused him. If the panel decides to reinstate him, they damn well better be right. I would have to see clear evidence that this is all false or a severe over reach. If that exists there are better ways to go about this than sending him back to the basketball court with all of this swirling around.
 
#161      

JJB

JJB
Chicago, IL
JJB
…INI said:
Taking the position that TJS stays on scholarship and can use the facilities improving his skills but can’t play basketball with the team seems very arbitrary to me. Since he’s been charged with a serious crime and is “guilty until proven innocent” why not kick him out of school? Although, to my knowledge the media and general public have not reacted negatively to TJS staying in school and using the facilities. Why would the media reaction be so much worse if he’s playing basketball? Is it because he is in front of a crowd and the crowd might react badly? Is it because he shouldn’t have fun playing basketball until he is proven innocent? (He can do everything else though). What makes playing basketball so much different than all the other privileges he continues to have while being in “charged” status? Why is the line drawn there? I must not get it.
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Drawing the line at representation of the University in formal competition, in front of thousands both live and on television, hardly seems random or lacking in underlying rationale.
 
#162      

Illinoise

Illinoise
Illinoise
…INI said:
Taking the position that TJS stays on scholarship and can use the facilities improving his skills but can’t play basketball with the team seems very arbitrary to me. Since he’s been charged with a serious crime and is “guilty until proven innocent” why not kick him out of school? Although, to my knowledge the media and general public have not reacted negatively to TJS staying in school and using the facilities. Why would the media reaction be so much worse if he’s playing basketball? Is it because he is in front of a crowd and the crowd might react badly? Is it because he shouldn’t have fun playing basketball until he is proven innocent? (He can do everything else though). What makes playing basketball so much different than all the other privileges he continues to have while being in “charged” status? Why is the line drawn there? I must not get it.
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There is nuance to it for sure. Showing support for a student athlete while the legal proceedings play out, yet understanding the severity of the charges. I don’t think it’s in the best interest of TSJ to be thrown out there with all this going on either.

Is the right thing to do to act like nothing has changed? Hard to fathom that. Is the right thing to do to kick him out of school? Doesn’t sound reasonable. Giving the legal process a chance to work for a bit and keep him and the University off the front page seems reasonable to me.
 
#163      

Fighter of the Nightman

Fighter of the Nightman
Chicago, IL
Fighter of the Nightman
Illinoise said:
There is nuance to it for sure. Showing support for a student athlete while the legal proceedings play out, yet understanding the severity of the charges. I don’t think it’s in the best interest of TSJ to be thrown out there with all this going on either.

Is the right thing to do to act like nothing has changed? Hard to fathom that. Is the right thing to do to kick him out of school? Doesn’t sound reasonable. Giving the legal process a chance to work for a bit and keep him and the University off the front page seems reasonable to me.
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The tough part comes if charges aren’t dropped in the next couple weeks … if TSJ adamantly maintains the charge is BS, the preliminary evidence appears flimsy and TSJ is LEGALLY considered as-of-yet innocent … well, what does supporting him in a “reasonable” way look like?? Glad I’m not the one deciding.
 
#164      

theNewGuy

theNewGuy
Dallas, TX
theNewGuy
SeattleSlim said:
Did I read somewhere that the bond in this case was $50,000 (could be wrong)? That just seems suspiciously low for someone who, if found guilty, faces a minimum of 12 and a maximum of 50+ years.
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IlliniFN said:
Assume it's the same as Illinois where you have to pay 10% to be released. So 500K was actual bond.
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I think yall mean bail. Bail is literally just in place to make sure you come back for the trial. A high profile basketball player poses little flight risk therefore smaller bail. The bail I believe is returned upon conclusion of trial. If TJ got a bail BOND then he pays just 10% to the bail bond company ($5k) as a fee and they post his bail for him. Being that TJ has made quite a lot of money, I would assume he just posted bail himself instead of spending $5k but idk
 
#167      

Bbuck21

B
Bbuck21
Roundball Sage said:
You raise a good point.

The thing is... People either have integrity or they don’t. Same with institutions. And our words and behavior continuously leaks out whether we in fact do have integrity or not. And of course, we all make mistakes from time to time. But in basic... you either have to believe that a person (or group of persons) has integrity and are doing their best... or you don’t. Or just wont.

The vast majority of us will never know all the people we talk about here on this forum personally. We only know them through videos and interviews and by how they perform on the venue of play.

But the basic rule of life should be... always think the best of someone until they prove to you you cannot.

Each of us would like to go through life being judged and treated fairly by all the people we encounter. And of course, that doesn’t always happen. But that should always be our baseline standard.

For myself... right now I will think the best about Shannon, his accuser, and the U of I, period. Until I am given good reason not to.

The U of I will not be harmed by fair-minded people if there is no reason to think harm. Facts will come out. And outside opinions will either fully align with those facts or they will not.

And as for the Illini in the Final Four, yes. Get there. Let it come down to the final possession. And then someone in Orange & Blue shakes off a defender... hits a Three from the top of the key just before the last second ticks off. And a challenging year both on and off the court ends with wide grins from Zion to Cairo and Seattle to Key West. And all the guys on the floor and all those of us who will be on the floor with them in spirit.
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-But the basic rule of life should be... always think the best of someone until they prove to you you cannot. I have always lived my life this way. It is amazing to me the sheer number of people that have proven this to me precisely. Some very quickly, some over time. Regarding the topic of this post, when it is over, there will be another person added to this list. I just don't know who it will be yet.
 
#168      

HereSoIDontGetFined

H
HereSoIDontGetFined
I get the sense that this is not going to be as simple as the panel flipping a switch and Shannon gets to play.

There's going to have to be some public justification. A report coming out, or another presser, etc.
 
#169      

Chad Fleck

Chad Fleck
Eureka, IL
Chad Fleck
Bbuck21 said:
-But the basic rule of life should be... always think the best of someone until they prove to you you cannot. I have always lived my life this way. It is amazing to me the sheer number of people that have proven this to me precisely. Some very quickly, some over time. Regarding the topic of this post, when it is over, there will be another person added to this list. I just don't know who it will be yet.
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That's an excellent rule to live by.

Another angle or way to say it:

"Do not attribute to malice that which you can attribute to ignorance."
 
#171      

RML

R
RML
Illinoise said:
... You can not send a player back on the court with this hanging over his head though. For the best interest of the player, the accuser and the U of I this needs to resolved legally. Charges need to be dropped or a plea deal reached. I will eat my words if I am wrong but I can’t see it.
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The substance of Josh's public statement, as I heard it, was that it is unfair to student athletes to make them wait out the legal process.
 
#172      

Illini3458

I
Illini3458
RML said:
The substance of Josh's public statement, as I heard it, was that it is unfair to student athletes to make them wait out the legal process.
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I definitely didn’t see it that way. I saw it as zero tolerance for sexual assault, we tried getting ahead of this but authorities would not give us any information, TSJ has been forthcoming and we support him but we will let the legal process play out given severity of the charges.
 
#173      

IlliniKat91

IlliniKat91
Chicago, IL
IlliniKat91
Illini3458 said:
I definitely didn’t see it that way. I saw it as zero tolerance for sexual assault, we tried getting ahead of this but authorities would not give us any information, TSJ has been forthcoming and we support him but we will let the legal process play out given severity of the charges.
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I think it's somewhere in between. The charges are severe and sexual misconduct will not be tolerated, but if the evidence indicates this is a bs charge, he shouldn't have his future (i.e., basketball) taken from him.

The tricky part as I see it is: how do you let the public know how strong the argument is in favor of TSJ to keep from being crucified in the court of public opinion if he is reinstated to the team before the legal process fully plays out?

From the hints dropped here, it seems like January 18th is the date we should have circled. Not sure if charges will be dropped or downgraded to the point they could reinstate him, but I'm going to enjoy the hell out of speculating with all of you in the meantime.
 
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