TSJ Thread

[nichi]

I can assure everyone of one thing. As long as these charges are pending, there is no way the University is going to put TSJ back on the floor. The charges need to be dropped or some kind of a settlement reached.

They may have compelling evidence that nothing occurred. If that’s the case they will pressure the DA in whatever way they can. What they won’t do is send TSJ back on the court so the country can listen to an ESPN announcer try to explain why TSJ is playing despite being charged with rape.

Please explain the purpose of the three person panel. According to our AD, their job is to review the available evidence and determine whether continuing the automatic suspension is appropriate.

My recollection is he mentioned it would possible for TSJ to return while the charges are still pending.

If the panel can't reinstate him unless the charges are reduced or dropped; they serve no apparent purpose.

 

[Frank]

Please explain the purpose of the three person panel. According to our AD, their job is to review the available evidence and determine whether continuing the automatic suspension is appropriate.

My recollection is he mentioned it would possible for TSJ to return while the charges are still pending.

If the panel can't reinstate him unless the charges are reduced or dropped; they serve no apparent purpose.

I don't think the OP was saying they couldn't reinstate him if they wanted to, he's saying it's highly, highly unlikely the University reinstates him while he has pending felony/misdemeanor charges. Any short-term basketball gain wouldn't be worth the long-term crucifying to which the University would be subjected.

 

[TheGMan]

Please explain the purpose of the three person panel. According to our AD, their job is to review the available evidence and determine whether continuing the automatic suspension is appropriate.

My recollection is he mentioned it would possible for TSJ to return while the charges are still pending.

If the panel can't reinstate him unless the charges are reduced or dropped; they serve no apparent purpose.

Not a question of can/can't, but more of a question of will/won't.

 

[Navy_illini]

The university is doing the right thing. When stuff like this happens, people expect schools/leadership to take action. Look at last year with Alabama, they took no action against their star that was involved in a double homicide... and they are still hearing about it now. It's best to give this time to air itself out COMPLETELY. And that's exactly what the university is doing. We would never hear the end of it if they acted hastily and (God forbid this all is true) allow a r*pist to play. Give it time, we've seen it the past 2 games - and will see it on Friday night - the team is good without TSJ and will be BETTER when / if he comes back.

You are right the university is doing the right thing as they figure out the facts surrounding the incident

Alabama situation is different than this and their player was never charged and police said he did nothing wrong. I think any school would have played him last year based on the facts

The media is not always right on their takes and if you look at how they vote in polls I question their analysis. There are a laundry list of individuals who the media said were guilty who were found not guilty or charges dropped. If TSJ is cleared the media and public opinion already made up their minds.

You hope people in leadership make decisions based on facts and not what others think. Duke paid 60 million because they made their decision based on what they thought was right instead of the facts

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03/duke-lacrosse-case-fantastic-lies-documentary#:~:text=In%20the%20end%2C%20there%20was,and%20preserve%20its%20“brand.”

 

[LvilleILL]

I will be shocked if Shannon does not play again for Illinois this year. Just a matter of when

 

[IlliniHardwood]

LvilleILL, I like what you have to say here... so much so that I have to say it and push the button.

 

[NorthShoreIllini]

Please explain the purpose of the three person panel. According to our AD, their job is to review the available evidence and determine whether continuing the automatic suspension is appropriate.

My recollection is he mentioned it would possible for TSJ to return while the charges are still pending.

If the panel can't reinstate him unless the charges are reduced or dropped; they serve no apparent purpose.

The panel also is acting indepenently of the athletic department. So it doesn't fall on Whitman/Underwood/anyone in athletic department to have to make the decision which could be construed in many ways, especially if he was allowed to play.

 

[uofi7477]

This Shannon issue is a symptom of a larger societal issue that has been going on for quite some time in our World.

In America, we have the vestiges of a legacy legal system in which you are technically presumed innocent unless proven guilty.

But we’ve have a duel-track going along with this in the common social square of public opinion. And it is often (if not always) more powerful in the public square than the official legal track. That is... it does not follow the formal rules of legality and the decency of reserving one’s personal judgment of the charge made. And as such... a good percentage (if not most) people WILL judge someone guilty of whatever they were accused of until the accused proves his or her innocence somewhere down the line. That’s not ‘legal’ or is it ‘right’. It just is. And for any person accused of something, yes this sucks big time.

But this can’t be ignored. As many here have already noted... Shannon will have a high mountain to climb if he is cleared of charges. The accusatory headlines have been splashed all over sports websites and general media news websites. It is being debated in various web forums. And for however long his legal limbo status goes on without determining final innocence or guilt... this serves to further cloud his name and future.

We live in a time and age when people are restless and angry. They want to think the worst of other people. And we have been made to be contentious and combative. Being fair and deliberate and following rules just isn't sexy in the spirit of our Times. And lots of people are suffering for this restlessness.

We all have enemies or at least people who aren’t too crazy about us. It is unsettling to know that any one of these persons can just float a charge against you and make it quickly public and serve to maybe ruin your life forever. And while the legal system purports to protect you from unfair accusations and penalties... where is the remedy in the some-ways more potent court of public opinion? There just isn’t one. And that’s why sometimes a bogus news story will be on the front page of the newspaper or website in big bold print. And the retraction is days later hidden in small print and in some corner of a forgotten page. And few ever bother to read it.

If it turns out that someone accused of a legal wrongdoing is in fact guilty – then there’s no harm done because he or she WAS guilty. They are getting some tough medicine.

But great and possibly permanent harm is done when it turns out that the accused was not guilty but most people will always think that they were. And will hold that against the person for the rest of their lives.

I totally agree Sage, and it is what it is with public opinion. My issue is all the hand-wringing that takes place within this Forum over the "harmed" reputation of the University of Illinois. Strong indications are given by our Insiders that this will work out for TSJ, but even Billboards with flashing lights in Times Square will not change public opinion outside of the Illini Community. I have great confidence that JW & U of I have a fair procedure in place that will do what is right for TSJ and the U of I. So lets just go get in the Final Four, and not worry about things that we can't change.

 

[nichi]

I don't think the OP was saying they couldn't reinstate him if they wanted to, he's saying it's highly, highly unlikely the University reinstates him while he has pending felony/misdemeanor charges. Any short-term basketball gain wouldn't be worth the long-term crucifying to which the University would be subjected.

Maybe I heard JW wrong then. He talked about how athletes deserve due process. The problem is court cases take a long time. Usually, by the time they are resolved, an athlete's eligibility has ended.

That is why they set up the process with the three person panel. The panel decides, based on available evidence, whether to continue or lift the suspension.

It is not up to the University or the AD. It is not based on what is best for UI's PR or short term image. It is based on what is fair to the athlete and the right decision according to known facts.

That is what I heard. Maybe I got it wrong?

 

[Illwinsagain]

This Shannon issue is a symptom of a larger societal issue that has been going on for quite some time in our World.

In America, we have the vestiges of a legacy legal system in which you are technically presumed innocent unless proven guilty.

But we’ve have a duel-track going along with this in the common social square of public opinion. And it is often (if not always) more powerful in the public square than the official legal track. That is... it does not follow the formal rules of legality and the decency of reserving one’s personal judgment of the charge made. And as such... a good percentage (if not most) people WILL judge someone guilty of whatever they were accused of until the accused proves his or her innocence somewhere down the line. That’s not ‘legal’ or is it ‘right’. It just is. And for any person accused of something, yes this sucks big time.

But this can’t be ignored. As many here have already noted... Shannon will have a high mountain to climb if he is cleared of charges. The accusatory headlines have been splashed all over sports websites and general media news websites. It is being debated in various web forums. And for however long his legal limbo status goes on without determining final innocence or guilt... this serves to further cloud his name and future.

We live in a time and age when people are restless and angry. They want to think the worst of other people. And we have been made to be contentious and combative. Being fair and deliberate and following rules just isn't sexy in the spirit of our Times. And lots of people are suffering for this restlessness.

We all have enemies or at least people who aren’t too crazy about us. It is unsettling to know that any one of these persons can just float a charge against you and make it quickly public and serve to maybe ruin your life forever. And while the legal system purports to protect you from unfair accusations and penalties... where is the remedy in the some-ways more potent court of public opinion? There just isn’t one. And that’s why sometimes a bogus news story will be on the front page of the newspaper or website in big bold print. And the retraction is days later hidden in small print and in some corner of a forgotten page. And few ever bother to read it.

If it turns out that someone accused of a legal wrongdoing is in fact guilty – then there’s no harm done because he or she WAS guilty. They are getting some tough medicine.

But great and possibly permanent harm is done when it turns out that the accused was not guilty but most people will always think that they were. And will hold that against the person for the rest of their lives.

Moniker checks out.

 

[04-05]

I don't think the OP was saying they couldn't reinstate him if they wanted to, he's saying it's highly, highly unlikely the University reinstates him while he has pending felony/misdemeanor charges. Any short-term basketball gain wouldn't be worth the long-term crucifying to which the University would be subjected.

Not to mention his likely bond conditions requiring him to stay in Champaign….

 

[IlliniCaboose]

I will be shocked if Shannon does not play again for Illinois this year. Just a matter of when

 

[Wade]

This 100%.

Agreed!

 

[fuddrules]

Please explain the purpose of the three person panel.

To counteract the garage zero tolerance policies so many organizations enact.

Keeping my fingers crossed that what insiders say is true and this 3 panel jury has the wherewithal to do what is right (vs what is easy and popular).

 

[Illinoise]

Please explain the purpose of the three person panel. According to our AD, their job is to review the available evidence and determine whether continuing the automatic suspension is appropriate.

My recollection is he mentioned it would possible for TSJ to return while the charges are still pending.

If the panel can't reinstate him unless the charges are reduced or dropped; they serve no apparent purpose.

My take, and only my take, is that the panel might very well reinstate someone with a minor charge or petty allegation. This is not that. Whether you or the panel believe the charge has any merit is meaningless in this case. That is my take. This is no minor charge. The optics would be horrible. Can you imagine the ESPN headlines.

If those representing TSJ have overwhelming evidence to support his innocence they will leverage that with the DA to get the charges dropped. I may be wrong but I would be stunned if something substantive hasn’t changed in terms of these charges when TSJ laces them up again.

 

[TampaToo]

Hey I want your handle instead

Will you both have to enter the portal first?

 

[Dr Copejam]

 

[illini6969]

To counteract the garage zero tolerance policies so many organizations enact.

Keeping my fingers crossed that what insiders say is true and this 3 panel jury has the wherewithal to do what is right (vs what is easy and popular).

there would be absolutely 0 purpose of this committee if the people who keep claiming he won’t be reinstated were right. The committee CAN and WILL, if the information they have calls for it

 

[fuddrules]

To counteract the garage zero tolerance policies so many organizations enact.

Keeping my fingers crossed that what insiders say is true and this 3 panel jury has the wherewithal to do what is right (vs what is easy and popular).

Dang spell editor.

 

[Illiniam1984]

 

[sbillini]

there would be absolutely 0 purpose of this committee if the people who keep claiming he won’t be reinstated were right. The committee CAN and WILL, if the information they have calls for it

edit: never mind. I told myself I wasn’t gonna engage in all this again and I’m gonna stick to that

 

[fuddrules]

there would be absolutely 0 purpose of this committee if the people who keep claiming he won’t be reinstated were right. The committee CAN and WILL, if the information they have calls for it

I hope you're right.

You have more confidence in this than I do. Maybe this is all legit, I dont know, but passing the blame/responsibility around is all too common.

 

[Illini90]

there would be absolutely 0 purpose of this committee if the people who keep claiming he won’t be reinstated were right. The committee CAN and WILL, if the information they have calls for it

The committee will reinstate if they feel it’s right for the university and the player (In this case Tj) regardless of charges or not. That’s why this committee was created. And they don’t care about “public opinion” nor should they

Also keep in mind if they thought Terrence was an actual threat to its university and students. He would’ve been dismissed from the program rather than suspended.

 

[nichi]

I don't think the OP was saying they couldn't reinstate him if they wanted to, he's saying it's highly, highly unlikely the University reinstates him while he has pending felony/misdemeanor charges. Any short-term basketball gain wouldn't be worth the long-term crucifying to which the University would be subjected.

You mention basketball gains and possible harm to the University. What about fair treatment for Terrence Shannon?

My impression is the latter is why the process with the 3 person panel was created. They act independently of both "the University's" and athletic interests to make a decision based on known facts..

Josh Whitman didn't say what their standard of proof would be. Preponderance of evidence?

 

[Illinifan55]

You are right the university is doing the right thing as they figure out the facts surrounding the incident

Alabama situation is different than this and their player was never charged and police said he did nothing wrong. I think any school would have played him last year based on the facts

Miller wasn't charged, but all I said was he was involved. He delivered a weapon that was used in a crime. As a collegiate athlete, you're asked to do a bunch of difficult things, but not having your name come up in a murder is a pretty easy ask... at least I think it is?

My point was that the UofA didn't take action when most people in the nation (except for 'Bama fans) thought they should. And UofI did take action (in a case that we're now seeing is a bunch of "he said/she said" and a lot of facts don't add up) to avoid the storm that could follow if they didn't. Hats off to leadership.